[quadchopper]

I am a hobbyist. Been welding with a Miller MIG for a few years. I have been wanting to get into TIG. For the purpose of just learning. I am pretty sure I will find use for TIG. I have narrowed it down to the Lincoln Aspect 230 ($3500) or the HTP ($3000). On the HTP, it is the 110/220v with 25 ft torch cable, hence the price. And price is not the issue. Is there any major advantage between these two models?

[Oscar]

The aspect 230 is a much newer design, and I believe it has independent waveform selection on AC.

The 221 is customizable exactly how you want: single voltage, dual voltage, air cooled, water cooled, ground clamp length, 12 ft, 25 foot cables, foot pedal, hand amptrol slider, wireless foot pedal, torch style (17,26,9,18,24,micro,flex-loc, IOW HTP can outfit it with what ever you want and just adjust the invoice), reg consumables, stubby, pyrex in short long, large diameter, fupa, edge cups, the list goes on and on and on)...if this is important to you in the initial purchase you might want to ask the Lincoln dealer what they can offer. I dont know about the stick capabilities of the Aspect 230, but the HTP 221 will run any rod including 6010 on 240V, AC & DC, with pulse or without, adjustable AC frequency and balance and independent amplitude even on stick, with or without foot pedal or band amptrols. So its very versatile.

[VA-Sawyer]

quadchopper,

I see that you are a new member, so I will say Welcome to the group. I don't know if you have been lurking, or just recently discovered this forum. Let me tell you a bit about Oscar.... He is a real fan of HTP products, and he seems to have real reasons for such. He can come across a bit strong in support of HTP, but I suggest that you don't discount what he says. He doesn't work for them, but maybe he should. Oscar is one of the guys here that I pay attention to his posts. I don't always agree with everything he says, but I respect what he knows. He claims that he isn't a pro welder, but I would say he is at least a VERY serious hobbyist.

As for me, I started with Stick back in '76 and have a bit over 2 years of TIG under my belt. I bought a new NEVERLAST 255EXT, and it worked well for about 20 months, then started to get flaky on AC. Stay away from that company because they haven't stood behind the 5 year Warranty at all. I run a repair shop, and use TIG to fabricate custom tools on a regular basis.

HTP does have a very good reputation here at WTAT. It was the choice unit for 'This Old Tony' when he needed to replace his TIG unit a while back.

[quadchopper]

So I have been lurking. Registered for this specific question. Given that Black Friday is around the corner, I thought I should decide just in case the deal of the century comes around. Unfortunately I haven't seen much as far as deals.

I have seen that Oscar is a big fan of HTP. I know his passion for HTP. And I do value his input. There has been a lot of reviews and videos on this welder. And I am a big fan of "TOT", and the reason I found out about HTP.

Oscar, thanks for your input. Good to know that I can customize things with HTP. With the Lincoln, if I purchase it, I probably would not go with their torch kit. I think for $600, I can put together a pedal, torch, regulator, etc for less and get what I want.

I guess I was hoping that someone with a Lincoln can chimed in and give insight into this machine. Being that it is so new, that there is virtually nothing as far as a descent review. As opposed to HTP, which have tons of reviews. I am just trying to do my due diligence to make sure I have no doubts. I am pretty sure I would be happy with either machines.

[quadchopper]

@Oscar. Is there something that you would want on the HTP that isn't there now?

[cj737]

Without a doubt for the money, the HTP is very, very good machine.

But, depending upon your actual need, there are many other machines you might consider in that price range as well as much less expensive units. For instance, PrimeWeld makes a very good AC/DC TIG that sells for about $800. Really, $800. It gets rave reviews even from professionals and that price has a CK brand torch, and an SSC type pedal. It doesn't have independent AC or multiple waveforms, but honestly these features are beyond nearly every hobbyist and many pros.

Personally, for $3,000 I would strongly consider the Miller MultiMatic 220. It's AC/DC, plus MIG and of course Stick. It is a multi-process box, runs 120/240v and can even use a spool gun for aluminum MIG if you desire. No independent AC or added waveforms, but it does have AC & DC pulse, HF start, and 2 gas inputs (Argon and 75/25 if you'd like). Small enough, great interface and a very capable machine especially for a hobbyist or light industrial.

Esab also makes units like the Miller. To my knowledge the Lincoln MP units are not AC, I could be wrong.

So if you no longer have your MIG box, I encourage you to consider a multi-process unit. If you do, then either the PrimeWeld (hell $800 is almost disposable after 2 or 3 years!) or the HTP for a pure TIG box.

[Oscar]

@Oscar. Is there something that you would want on the HTP that isn't there now?

Well kinda sorta. What I would want in the 221 I already have in the invertig 400 . When compared to more modern machines it lacks different waveforms, mixed AC pulse, higher "rated" duty cycle (even though its no slouch either in the real world), adjustable hot start, would be some items. But most of those things are more like novelty features. I'm pretty sure that no one has ever said "well I couldn't do this TIG job because I didn't have [one of those features]."

quadchopper,

I see that you are a new member, so I will say Welcome to the group. I don't know if you have been lurking, or just recently discovered this forum. Let me tell you a bit about Oscar.... He is a real fan of HTP products, and he seems to have real reasons for such. He can come across a bit strong in support of HTP, but I suggest that you don't discount what he says. He doesn't work for them, but maybe he should. Oscar is one of the guys here that I pay attention to his posts. I don't always agree with everything he says, but I respect what he knows. He claims that he isn't a pro welder, but I would say he is at least a VERY serious hobbyist.

Thanks Sawyer; the gang at HTP are almost like 2nd family. I mostly just bug Jeff and Peter, so they can bring in new machines for me to buy. Right now im pushing for them to bring in the 100A plasma cutter, but they currently use those stupid European 400V 3-ph power supplies, lol. Oh well, I can only hope.

[BugHunter]

I know nothing about either of the two machines in question, but my experience last week was my first with any HTP brand machine. It's a model in Oscar's sig line, so he's quite familiar with it. I'll just say his enthusiasm is not unwarranted. Yes, there's numerous really nice machines on the market; at least in the case of the 220MTS, it's also one of em.

Decision making on these machines has become a daunting process. There are so many machines with so many different capabilities. The list of features included and/or not included can almost be a detriment. Unless you have a list of needs and you find a machine that checks all those boxes without finding some other machine with some item on your 'wish-list' of features, holy smokes you can shop a while...

"Should I sell my existing...?"
"Do I want a multi-process xyz?"
"Will I want extra power occasionally?"
"Model X has feature A, but Model Y has feature B, nothing has both, which do I want more?"
"I like this particular aftermarket item but it's not available for the unit I'm considering..."
"This one costs more, but it has a feature I really like the sound of and I know damn well I'll never use..."
"This model has upgradability but the upgradability costs money on the front end, as do the upgrades. Am I really future proofing anything with that additional money?"

The list just goes on and on.

[quadchopper]

Without a doubt for the money, the HTP is very, very good machine.

But, depending upon your actual need, there are many other machines you might consider in that price range as well as much less expensive units. For instance, PrimeWeld makes a very good AC/DC TIG that sells for about $800. Really, $800. It gets rave reviews even from professionals and that price has a CK brand torch, and an SSC type pedal. It doesn't have independent AC or multiple waveforms, but honestly these features are beyond nearly every hobbyist and many pros.

Personally, for $3,000 I would strongly consider the Miller MultiMatic 220. It's AC/DC, plus MIG and of course Stick. It is a multi-process box, runs 120/240v and can even use a spool gun for aluminum MIG if you desire. No independent AC or added waveforms, but it does have AC & DC pulse, HF start, and 2 gas inputs (Argon and 75/25 if you'd like). Small enough, great interface and a very capable machine especially for a hobbyist or light industrial.

Esab also makes units like the Miller. To my knowledge the Lincoln MP units are not AC, I could be wrong.

So if you no longer have your MIG box, I encourage you to consider a multi-process unit. If you do, then either the PrimeWeld (hell $800 is almost disposable after 2 or 3 years!) or the HTP for a pure TIG box.

I am planning to keep my MIG. I have thought about selling my Miller MIG and getting the MultiMatic 220 in the past. I have since decided to keep the MIG and just buy a dedicated TIG. The ideal of having one machine is nice, but in practice, I would get annoyed. I am the same way with other things. For example, I used to have one angle grinder. I would cut stock with a grind wheel and switch over to sand disc for prep. Although it only took seconds to switch the disc over, I ended up just buying a second grinder. Life is better.

Thanks for the Primeweld suggestion, but I am in that boat of "buy the best you can afford". Aside from quality, I like my bells and whistles. I might never use it, but at least I have it if I ever need it.

[quadchopper]

Well kinda sorta. What I would want in the 221 I already have in the invertig 400 . When compared to more modern machines it lacks different waveforms, mixed AC pulse, higher "rated" duty cycle (even though its no slouch either in the real world), adjustable hot start, would be some items. But most of those things are more like novelty features. I'm pretty sure that no one has ever said "well I couldn't do this TIG job because I didn't have [one of those features]."

This is very helpful.

[Louie1961]

I am not sure if either of these feature differences matter to you, but the Aspect 230 has a higher pulse rate on AC than the Invertig 221. The 221 is limited to 10 pulses per second on AC, which has always seemed to me to be the one drawback of this machine. The aspect will pulse up 25% of your AC frequency, so at 120hz AC frequency, you can set the pulse per second rate to 30 PPS. Turn the AC frequency up to 400 hz and you can achieve 100 PPS.

That's the only other difference I see in these machines, it the max AC frequency (200 HTP vs 400 Lincoln). Other than that they seem to both have independent EP and EN balance controls, and multiple waveforms (sine, square, soft square, triangle).

I personally feel that these differences are quite immaterial to 99% of the hobby welders out there, but that's your call to make.

[cj737]

Thanks for the Primeweld suggestion, but I am in that boat of "buy the best you can afford".

Then you might also consider the Dynasty 210DX. Arguably the best TIG box on the market. Used by more folks, local repairs, decades of availability.

The only knock I see against an HTP is that it is a rebranded Stel and for warranty you have to send it back to HTP. Not a huge deal for some, and their warranty/service is reported to be first rate, but... HTP does not control the product. They may have sincere input but Stel makes what Stel decides.

Just saying.

[quadchopper]

I am not sure if either of these feature differences matter to you, but the Aspect 230 has a higher pulse rate on AC than the Invertig 221. The 221 is limited to 10 pulses per second on AC, which has always seemed to me to be the one drawback of this machine. The aspect will pulse up 25% of your AC frequency, so at 120hz AC frequency, you can set the pulse per second rate to 30 PPS. Turn the AC frequency up to 400 hz and you can achieve 100 PPS.

That's the only other difference I see in these machines, it the max AC frequency (200 HTP vs 400 Lincoln). Other than that they seem to both have independent EP and EN balance controls, and multiple waveforms (sine, square, soft square, triangle).

I personally feel that these differences are quite immaterial to 99% of the hobby welders out there, but that's your call to make.

To be honest, I don't currently know what features I want or what is important. One of the reason I am trying to get all the features I can. I might never need it. But I think as I advanced in my skill sets, a lot of features I will start using. It was similar to my MIG machine. I ended using a lot of the machine even though it was not what I needed from the beginning.

Thank you for your analysis. It was really helpful.

[quadchopper]

Thanks for the Primeweld suggestion, but I am in that boat of "buy the best you can afford".

Then you might also consider the Dynasty 210DX. Arguably the best TIG box on the market. Used by more folks, local repairs, decades of availability.

The only knock I see against an HTP is that it is a rebranded Stel and for warranty you have to send it back to HTP. Not a huge deal for some, and their warranty/service is reported to be first rate, but... HTP does not control the product. They may have sincere input but Stel makes what Stel decides.

Just saying.

Good point with the HTP. It has been a point of consideration. Oscar also made a good counter point that they will try to help you troubleshoot and fix. I am pretty electronic savvy, so it might not be too much of an issue. And the fact that you don't hear much about these machine being lemons.

As for the 210DX, I would love to own that. But it is probably $1000 over my budget. Considering that a base machine is $4000 without a torch kit, pedal or regulator. That will likely be $4600 when all said and done. I haven't seen any rebates. If I can get the 210DX completed for $3600ish, it would definitely be the machine I would get. The reason the Aspect is appealing, I believe it is on par with the 210DX for $1000 less. I am I wrong in my assumptions?

[cj737]

As for the 210DX, I would love to own that. But it is probably $1000 over my budget. Considering that a base machine is $4000 without a torch kit, pedal or regulator. That will likely be $4600 when all said and done. I haven't seen any rebates. If I can get the 210DX completed for $3600ish, it would definitely be the machine I would get. The reason the Aspect is appealing, I believe it is on par with the 210DX for $1000 less. I am I wrong in my assumptions?

I think the Dynasty will probably cost you more than that. I haven't seen any rebates, but with Black Friday around the corner and their new MM machines, I wonder if the 210 model is about to be "usurped".

As for equal to an Aspect, hard for me to say. I have a Dynasty since 2005. I have not used the Aspect so I have no opinion on it. Lincoln makes good machines, but I think their recent Squarewave boxes were a bit disappointing.

So if $3,500 is the hard budget, HTP hands down.

[BugHunter]

As for the 210DX, I would love to own that. But it is probably $1000 over my budget. Considering that a base machine is $4000 without a torch kit, pedal or regulator. That will likely be $4600 when all said and done.

I think the Dynasty will probably cost you more than that.

I tend to agree. Depending on what kit you buy, maybe a good bit more. I'm not sure I'd buy one without the water cooler and wireless footpedal. At which point you're tickling $6k even before any consumables and sales tax if it applies.

[sbaker56]

Either will do more far more than you'll need them to, I'd go with the Aspect 230 if I didn't care about the price difference simply for a higher duty cycle and 10 more amps.

What do you suspect you'll be welding?

[quadchopper]

Either will do more far more than you'll need them to, I'd go with the Aspect 230 if I didn't care about the price difference simply for a higher duty cycle and 10 more amps.

What do you suspect you'll be welding?

I will likely start off with mild steel. Various home projects. But eventually I would like to redo my stairs railings in stainless steel. And I will definitely also weld aluminum at some point.

I am leaning towards the Aspect at this point. The price difference isn't that much if I was to buy the HTP 221 DV.

[Oscar]

One thing that I found interesting about the Aspect is that the duty cycle @ 104°F is determined by simulation. Not doubting it one bit; I was simply surprised how they were going about things.

[nick121]

Either will do more far more than you'll need them to, I'd go with the Aspect 230 if I didn't care about the price difference simply for a higher duty cycle and 10 more amps.

What do you suspect you'll be welding?

I will likely start off with mild steel. Various home projects. But eventually I would like to redo my stairs railings in stainless steel. And I will definitely also weld aluminum at some point.

I am leaning towards the Aspect at this point. The price difference isn't that much if I was to buy the HTP 221 DV.

I saved and bought the apsect 230, I'm just learning tig.. but I'm really happy with this purchase. I was originally going to get the square wave 200 but saved for a while longer to afford the aspect just for a better quality machine(hopefully) and more settings and better output/duty cycle. Don't need all the settings but I guess nice to have. I probably would have been fine with the square wave 200 and saved a lot to put towards argon/consumables while I learn.. But later on I think I'll be happy I spent the extra.
I looked at the invertig 221, but I'm in canada and it would have cost close to the aspect by the time I imported it, and I want local service. I looked at the dynasty 210 a bit, but the aspect is quite a bit cheaper.. and offers just as much I think and with a few more top end amps. So that was my thought process going into this. I was watching for a used machine but nothing really came up.

[Louie1961]

To be honest, I don't currently know what features I want or what is important. One of the reason I am trying to get all the features I can. I might never need it. But I think as I advanced in my skill sets, a lot of features I will start using. It was similar to my MIG machine. I ended using a lot of the machine even though it was not what I needed from the beginning.

Unless you have money to burn, given this quote, maybe the best choice is neither machine. You are going to invest a lot of money without knowing what you will need? Doesn't seem like the best financial move to me. If you are starting out with mild steel projects, I would take a different approach and minimize your initial investment until you know what you really want the welding machine to do. I started out with a scratch start TIG rig, hooked to my Hobart Stickmate welder. For just a few hundred dollars you could invest in a DC stick TIG machine to get you started, and sell it or trade it in later when you want to step up to aluminum. Something like the Klutch ST201iDV will get you started in DC TIG welding, with HF start and a foot pedal for under $400 https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools ... _200833050

[quadchopper]

Either will do more far more than you'll need them to, I'd go with the Aspect 230 if I didn't care about the price difference simply for a higher duty cycle and 10 more amps.

What do you suspect you'll be welding?

I will likely start off with mild steel. Various home projects. But eventually I would like to redo my stairs railings in stainless steel. And I will definitely also weld aluminum at some point.

I am leaning towards the Aspect at this point. The price difference isn't that much if I was to buy the HTP 221 DV.

I saved and bought the apsect 230, I'm just learning tig.. but I'm really happy with this purchase. I was originally going to get the square wave 200 but saved for a while longer to afford the aspect just for a better quality machine(hopefully) and more settings and better output/duty cycle. Don't need all the settings but I guess nice to have. I probably would have been fine with the square wave 200 and saved a lot to put towards argon/consumables while I learn.. But later on I think I'll be happy I spent the extra.
I looked at the invertig 221, but I'm in canada and it would have cost close to the aspect by the time I imported it, and I want local service. I looked at the dynasty 210 a bit, but the aspect is quite a bit cheaper.. and offers just as much I think and with a few more top end amps. So that was my thought process going into this. I was watching for a used machine but nothing really came up.

Thanks for your input. I pretty sure this is the machine I will be purchasing.

[quadchopper]

To be honest, I don't currently know what features I want or what is important. One of the reason I am trying to get all the features I can. I might never need it. But I think as I advanced in my skill sets, a lot of features I will start using. It was similar to my MIG machine. I ended using a lot of the machine even though it was not what I needed from the beginning.

Unless you have money to burn, given this quote, maybe the best choice is neither machine. You are going to invest a lot of money without knowing what you will need? Doesn't seem like the best financial move to me. If you are starting out with mild steel projects, I would take a different approach and minimize your initial investment until you know what you really want the welding machine to do. I started out with a scratch start TIG rig, hooked to my Hobart Stickmate welder. For just a few hundred dollars you could invest in a DC stick TIG machine to get you started, and sell it or trade it in later when you want to step up to aluminum. Something like the Klutch ST201iDV will get you started in DC TIG welding, with HF start and a foot pedal for under $400 https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools ... _200833050

I appreciate your input. I want to avoid buying twice. Given my history with other things, I always seem in the end I was glad that I bought the better machine. Right now though, I have to put the welder on hold. Life just poked it head in and I have to reduce my spending and save for something else.

[G-ManBart]

As for the 210DX, I would love to own that. But it is probably $1000 over my budget. Considering that a base machine is $4000 without a torch kit, pedal or regulator. That will likely be $4600 when all said and done. I haven't seen any rebates. If I can get the 210DX completed for $3600ish, it would definitely be the machine I would get. The reason the Aspect is appealing, I believe it is on par with the 210DX for $1000 less. I am I wrong in my assumptions?

The Lincoln is in the same ballpark as the 210DX from a performance standpoint, but that isn't what would concern me between the two.

As I worked through a number of welders to get to what I have now I sold off the previous machines. Several of the machines I sold went to welding shops that were replacing Lincoln for Miller because of service issues. The short version a couple of them said was that trying to get parts for a Lincoln that was 8-10 years old was often impossible. The last guy actually went to the Lincoln welding school and was a diehard red guy, but said that when his Lincoln TIG died and sat in the shop for two weeks waiting to see if they could find substitute parts they loaned him a Syncrowave 250DX. He bought my 5-6yrd old Sync 250DX and said if they got the Lincoln fixed he was just going to sell it...wasn't worth the hassle having a machine that couldn't be readily repaired. It was a Precision TIG, but I don't recall which model...so not the newest, but not super old.

Under warranty I don't think there's any difference, but after that it doesn't look like Lincoln is doing a good job of keeping inventory on hand. I wonder if that coincides with the switch to making machines in Mexico, or it's just their plan to support machines for around ten years and that's it....hard to say. On the flip side, I've needed a few parts for Miller machines going back easily 30 years and was able to find them...not always cheap, but at least available.

[BugHunter]

The Lincoln is in the same ballpark as the 210DX from a performance standpoint, but that isn't what would concern me between the two.

As I worked through a number of welders to get to what I have now I sold off the previous machines. Several of the machines I sold went to welding shops that were replacing Lincoln for Miller because of service issues. The short version a couple of them said was that trying to get parts for a Lincoln that was 8-10 years old was often impossible. The last guy actually went to the Lincoln welding school and was a diehard red guy, but said that when his Lincoln TIG died and sat in the shop for two weeks waiting to see if they could find substitute parts they loaned him a Syncrowave 250DX. He bought my 5-6yrd old Sync 250DX and said if they got the Lincoln fixed he was just going to sell it...wasn't worth the hassle having a machine that couldn't be readily repaired. It was a Precision TIG, but I don't recall which model...so not the newest, but not super old.

Under warranty I don't think there's any difference, but after that it doesn't look like Lincoln is doing a good job of keeping inventory on hand. I wonder if that coincides with the switch to making machines in Mexico, or it's just their plan to support machines for around ten years and that's it....hard to say. On the flip side, I've needed a few parts for Miller machines going back easily 30 years and was able to find them...not always cheap, but at least available.

I think they have all decided planned obsolescence is the future. Miller doesn't support virtually anything Hobart, I can't get any parts for my Hobart Mig. I found some consumables on eBay and bought them up but to go to a dealer, forget it. And let's face it, the strategy works because I've considered purchasing a MIG welder and I virtually never turn mine on.