[Kodokan]

Not trying to be a smart-ass.

I've read that it can take years of practice to become a master of making beautiful dimestacks. I haven't started welding, yet. Just getting my gear and taking a look.

Since I may not have much time, I'd like to get on the fast track. Good news is, I'll be working with a limited number of metal types and thicknesses. I'll never need to make a root weld. No O/A, stick, and almost no MIG.

When my new torch (Lincoln PTA-17) arrived, it seems like I would need assorted or adjustable props to get the torch into the right position. Right away, I can see the advantage of a flexible head torch, so I got a Miller 90 degree 17F.

So, I'm holding the torch and do a little (air) welding motion. It's clear that there's a learning curve for the coordination of both hands. Reminds me of patting my head and rubbing my belly as a kid. Plus, the foot pedal action.

I'm guessing that the machine/flow settings, and choice of tungsten and filler wire, aren't the difficult part of TIG welding. Looks like the ability to perform with machine-like coordination is what takes so long.

At the moment, I'm more interested in working on coordination and dexterity than melting metal. Until I have the basic movements down, it could just be a big waste of materials.

For now, I'm going to bring the folding table in the house and work on my air welding technique. I'm designing my own tool (paper printout) to improve rhythm, speed, and accuracy.

Am I on the right track? Suggestions are welcome.

[Oscar]

I'd say you're thinking is on track about coordination and dexterity. There's a lot of other factors as well; in fact TIG welding likely has the most factors involved IMO. For example some people don't even realize that leaning your entire upper-torso/body weight on your forearms while trying to perform TIG welding creates a scenario that cripples your ability to be fluid in your movements. As they [try to] move, the end up changing inadvertently variables like torch angle, arc length, filler rod angle, etc, when they weren't supposed to, and then can't figure out why things go south. Lots of hidden factors are unique to each situation as well. Don't forget you still have to read the puddle to know what is happening at the weld pool between the base material and the filler rod. If you watch every single TIG welding video from Jody, you will be off to a good start; it's just remembering everything in the blink of an eye that become difficult.

[tweake]

holding a tight arc consistently. hardest thing to do and the most important.

[Kodokan]

For example some people don't even realize that leaning your entire upper-torso/body weight on your forearms while trying to perform TIG welding creates a scenario that cripples your ability to be fluid in your movements.

Thanks for the response. This was the first thing I did when I was checking out the torch. Leaning forward with my arms on the table.

Luckily, my focus at this point is mainly on the physical movements of TIG, so I caught it. Realized that keeping my hands closer to my body, and keeping my hands higher (closer to my head, than my waist), will prevent that.

I did check out a couple of Jody's videos to see if he props/supports his torch hand. He does.

Hoping to get my air welding setup done by the end of the day.

[Kodokan]

holding a tight arc consistently. hardest thing to do and the most important.

I'm so new, I don't understand what holding a tight arc means.

Is this about keeping the electrode at an effective and consistent distance from the weld pool?

[BugHunter]

Yes. Really close but not touching.

[Kodokan]

holding a tight arc consistently. hardest thing to do and the most important.

Okay. But how tight is ideal?
1mm? 2mm? 3mm? 1/16"? 1/8"?

Got a little start on dry practice today. Tried the filler rod motion at 10"/min. Dabs are about 1/sec. No torch hand. Not accurate, but I could keep up.

Just for fun, I jumped up to 18"/min. Holy crap. I was like a cerebral palsy patient. All over the place, and couldn't keep up at all.

[Arno]

Okay. But how tight is ideal?
1mm? 2mm? 3mm? 1/16"? 1/8"?

Rule of thumb usually is to usually keep about the same distance as the thickness of your filler rod, but on thicker ones like 1/8" then closer is usually better as it keeps the heat focussed on the base material.

What you'll probably struggle with initially is the act of actually adding filler consistently. This sounds simple, but the key point is that you need to keep the filler rod at a proper angle and dab the filler in the edge of the puddle while NOT allowing it to melt/blob.

Add too much filler too quickly and you'll 'freeze' the puddle and stick the filler to the base material. Too slow/little and you get sunken welds or your filler balls/blobs and drops off before you even get to the puddle. Oh.. And you'll regularly 'stab' the tungsten with the filler and/or drop the tungsten in the puddle as you move.. The (tungsten) grinder will be your friend for a looong time..

Rod angle is also important as the heat from the arc radiates out and too shallow or too vertical gets the filler into the (reflected) heat which (esp. on alu) melts the filler before you get to the puddle.

Loads of docs from Lincoln and the like on the correct angles for torch and filler.

Of course in practice you sometimes have to 'make do' or work around this as some objects may be shaped in such a way that you can't get the text-book angles, but that's basically getting the seat-time and building up experience.

TIG really is not hard as such, but it does require a lot more time to come out of the phase where you conciously have to 'think' and then 'do' until it becomes more automatic.

Bye, Arno.

[tweake]

excellent advice from Arno as always.

there is a lot of little things that you need to get right. i think its quite a good idea to start with one thing and get that right before moving onto the next.
ie do a lot of runs with no filler. do short welds. adjust one thing at a time and stick to one material.

for me its not easy because i tend to do different things all the time and at random times which makes learning difficult.

[motorcyclemike]

I'm no expert and just started learning to weld about two years ago. So, what I'm about to say may not be the best advice. The fastest way to learn how to weld is to get some one-on-one time with an experienced welder. Preferably someone who is good at teaching how to weld. Although I do think there's value in finding a comfortable position and doing a dry run or two prior to striking an arc, air welding is otherwise not the best use of your time. You need to start getting some arc time. No need for flex torches or gas lenses. The standard torch that came with your welder is more than adequate to learn the basics. There's a lot to learn before you even need to add filler and once at that point you can start by just holding the rod a foot from the end and moving your hand towards the pool. Auto-feeding with your fingers can be worked on later.

The very first skill to learn is making a 1/4" (or what ever size is appropriate) weld pool. That's it. Start with clean material and a comfortable position. Learn how to stomp on the pedal while holding a tight arc with the correct torch angle and making a 1/4" puddle. Do this until you can do it consistently. Now is also a good time to experiment with arc length and torch angle. See what happens when the arc length is way too long and the torch angle is way too sharp. Trying extremes will help you learn how these two variables effect the puddle. This is very helpful once you start making beads because you'll be looking at a weld that is not what you expected. The reason is almost always too long an arc and/or too much torch angle. Next, move the puddle keeping a consistent 1/4" wide bead. When you can do this consistently, start adding filler.

Ultimately, you need to learn how to control the weld pool (puddle). And it's controlled by multiple variables which are controlled hands and feet that are not yet skilled at these fine motor skills. And you need to learn how to see what's happening (right or wrong) and quickly make adjustments. You can't just stop and analyze, you have to keep moving. Get out there and practice. If you run into problems, post up pictures of your welds with the welder settings and people will give feedback.

[Toggatug]

Hardest part about tig isn't one thing in particular. I'd say it's the fact that you got a dozen or more things all going on simultaneously and one affects the other and vice versa in a never ending web.

It's getting all those things working in harmony that's the hard part I'd say.

Start with the basics get comfortable holding the torch and running it smoothly in various directions / lengths.

Idle hand time like watching TV is a great time to practice feeding rod, just feed out the length then flip it and do it again. Ally 3/32 diameter works well since it's not too heavy and not too flimsy.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Kodokan]

Rule of thumb usually is to usually keep about the same distance as the thickness of your filler rod, but on thicker ones like 1/8" then closer is usually better as it keeps the heat focussed on the base material.

What you'll probably struggle with initially is the act of actually adding filler consistently. This sounds simple, but the key point is that you need to keep the filler rod at a proper angle and dab the filler in the edge of the puddle while NOT allowing it to melt/blob.

Rod angle is also important as the heat from the arc radiates out and too shallow or too vertical gets the filler into the (reflected) heat which (esp. on alu) melts the filler before you get to the puddle.

Loads of docs from Lincoln and the like on the correct angles for torch and filler.

Thanks, Arno. Been practicing a bit on advancing the filler rod. Actually find it easier with gloves on. Need plenty of work on filler rod dabbing. I'm like a bullet with my right hand, but that's my torch hand. Will continue the coordination exercises.

I'll look for the Lincoln references.

Does the filler rod move left (away from the puddle), then right (into the puddle), then left, then right - kind of like a sewing machine motion? Or, is it more of a starting and stopping motion while only moving left?

[Kodokan]

i think its quite a good idea to start with one thing and get that right before moving onto the next.
ie do a lot of runs with no filler. do short welds. adjust one thing at a time and stick to one material.

Will do. At least that's the plan. And also to keep a notebook, and take corresponding photos. When I weld at home, I'll be mainly focusing on the same materials used on my custom projects.

However, welding classes at the local community college start in Jan. I have to take "Intro to Welding" first. Not a bad idea, but there's no TIG. And have to do all the same stuff as everyone else. Good news is I can skip the whole vocational program, and go straight to the Advanced Welding Class next quarter.

[Kodokan]

The fastest way to learn how to weld is to get some one-on-one time with an experienced welder. Preferably someone who is good at teaching how to weld.

Hopefully, I'll be able to handle the welding classes. Not sure because of medical issues. But, the whole welding program has a max of 25 people. Has 20 now, 16 signed up for Jan. Brand new facility just completed this year. Sounds good. Hoping for good instruction.

All my projects are for custom motorcycles, except my titanium urn.

[Kodokan]

Start with the basics get comfortable holding the torch and running it smoothly in various directions / lengths.

Idle hand time like watching TV is a great time to practice feeding rod, just feed out the length then flip it and do it again. Ally 3/32 diameter works well since it's not too heavy and not too flimsy.

Thanks. Will be practicing rod feeding Friday. Forged in Fire is on TV all day.

One thing I've figured out is I need good lighting. Side lighting. Hard to see the electrode gap with overhead lighting. Guess I won't have this issue when I fire up the torch.

[Jeff2016]

Hi Kodocan,

There's a lot of great advice that has been offered in this thread. These guys are the best.

There are a few things that only actual welding can offer in terms of getting used to the whole experience.

I'm struggling most with getting comfortable with my positioning. Trying to support my hands and arms without putting too much force on them. I've been trying to force myself to relax... easier said than done.

Even if you get good with dry runs, it's hard to get the feel of the whole experience. The heat is something it took me a while to get comfortable with... when are my hands getting too hot versus when it's okay to proceed with my bead. Getting used to the arc starting and focusing on the weld pool is something that I need to focus on all the time. I know that when I first started I was nervous about everything... it was hard to relax. It seemed like there would be a moment of success and then I would dip the tungsten or ram the filler rod into the tungsten. Ugh.

I'm a slow learner, so for me it has taken a long time to feel halfway coordinated with the torch, the filler and the foot pedal. That being said, I am finally able to get some consistent welds (followed by some buggered-up welds). At least I'm not overwhelmed with the whole process.

There's a great instructor at a local welding supply who gave me some lessons on Mig welding. I'm to the point now with Tig, that I am thinking about going back to him for Tig advice. I just want to get a little more experience, and get more comfortable.

Good luck with your class in January. And with anything you are able to do in the meantime.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Jeff2016]

Hi Kodocan,

Just checking in to see how you are doing.

I know your welding classes don't start until January... just wondering if you have done anything in advance.

Take Care,

Jeff

[gnabgib]

Forming a habit counts for a lot in anything you do, which is why Jody goes on about muscle memory. It's real and the only way to develop it is with a lot of repetitions ie. forming a habit.
Think of how difficult it is to undo a bad habit, therefor try not to develop them in the first place. I fondly recall the line; "If everything you ever did was wrong, try doing the opposite" Easy eh? Until you try that. It has taken me around 10 years, started when I was 62(!?), to get to point where I can feel fairly relaxed in a lot of different positions.
I did the pipe pressure test 10 years ago and the first times at it, I thought this is loopy, I can't do it, until I realized that others have done it then so can I.

[Kodokan]

The heat is something it took me a while to get comfortable with... when are my hands getting too hot versus when it's okay to proceed with my bead.

Thanks for the tips. I got a couple of TIG fingers which should help with heat issues.

[Kodokan]

Just checking in to see how you are doing.

Didn't mean to disappear. Got my syllabus for welding class and put TIG welding on hold for a minute. Have to take the intro class first, which is oxyacetylene and stick welding. 5 weeks long, then I can get into a class where I can TIG.

Figured I'll be too busy to practice TIG on my own and I'd rather use school equipment and argon for learning. Just been doing a bit of my hand coordination exercises.

Have to be super careful with omicron. I'm triple vaccinated, so I probably won't die from COVID, but it could make my cancer progress faster.

I've worn N95 masks over a thousand times at my former job. Around people with every kind of disease. Also had mask fit testing every year. So, at least I have a chance of not getting sick. First class in 2 days.

[Kodokan]

So, the intro class, which is just O/A, is going well. Next class starts in about 3 weeks.

Next class is open lab where I can do TIG, or whatever I want. Problem is, no lecture, I'm on my own. So, I'm back to prepping for TIG practice.

Got a question. Making an argon purge block. For welding titanium, is it better to have a perforated titanium sheet instead of a perforated stainless sheet? Can stainless contaminate the titanium weld?

Thanks, again!

[cj737]

I’d make it from aluminum personally, but you’ll be fine with stainless.

[Kodokan]

What filler rod is the best for welding titanium grade 2, grade 5, and grade 9?

I read it's best to use a softer grade of filler wire than the parent metal. My initial plan was to use ErTi-2 for grade 2, ErTi-5 for grade 5, and ErTi-9 for grade 9.

Also read that ErTi-1 can be used for grades 2, 5, and 9. Is this true? My titanium welded projects won't be supporting weight, but will be subjected to vibration.

By the way, I couldn't find ErTi-9 anywhere.

[Oscar]

Filler in Grade 9 is not common at all; I've looked. I would suggest CP2 filler (commercially pure grade 2) for Grade 2 base, either Grade 5 or Grade 23 filler (aka Grade 5 ELI) for Grade 5 or Grade 9 base. Granted I've not done a lot of titanium welding, most of just for curiosity's sake. You can use CP1 for any of those three grades of base material, but it won't match the strength of anything higher than its own grade.

[Kodokan]

Thanks for confirming, Oscar.

I did finally find it in the book that came with the TIG. Who'd have thought of looking there? It's as you say.

Since I'm just practicing, I'll probably use ErTi-1 on the grade 9. I think ErTi-1 might be the filler to use on 2-stroke pipes because of the expanding/contracting/vibration.