[Jeff2016]

Hi Tweake,

it depends on what material.
stainless (at least the typical 3 series) is very often just autogenous welding. with aluminium a couple grades do, the rest don't. without filler the welds are weak and crack easily.

edit: you also have to remember that you need to add metal if there is a gap, otherwise your robbing material and making it thinner ie undercut.
[/quote]

Thanks for your input. I'm working with mild steel.

I understand what you are saying about the undercut. When the fit-up isn't almost perfect, that is what I experience with the 16 ga.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Jeff2016]

Hey Everyone,

I haven't made enough time to really show much improvement. Still get in a little torch time, although there was quite a lag.

I've attached a couple of pics of a inside corner joint I attempted yesterday. 1/8" mild steel plate. 145 A at full pedal for the middle bead. Still not enough penetration.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Jeff

[cj737]

Your arc length is too long. That is evidenced by the heat affected zone up the plate. Too long of an arc causes a lot of problems, not the least of which is poor penetration.

Goal is to have the tungsten “almost” touching the puddle to keep the arc under a focused control.

Also, drop your heat to 125-130. That’s ample to weld 1/8” with 3/32” filler. You can go full pedal and stuff filler in to control the puddle that way instead of fussing with the pedal trying to keep from blowing through the material.

[Jeff2016]

Hi CJ,

Thanks.

The arc length is the most challenging part of the process. The thought in my head as I'm running the bead is that I'm almost too close in terms of arc length. That being said, I get the fact that the heat affected zone is telling the story.

I'll keep working at it.

Thanks for the advice.

Jeff

[Jeff2016]

Hi Everyone,

First aluminum attempts.

I know that several of the beads were too hot. Still working on dialing things in.

Jeff

[Jeff2016]

Hi Everyone,

A good run of real paying work meant no time with Tig. I sat down again yesterday and for a while this morning.

CJ wrote this a while ago:

Your arc length is too long. That is evidenced by the heat affected zone up the plate. Too long of an arc causes a lot of problems, not the least of which is poor penetration.

Goal is to have the tungsten “almost” touching the puddle to keep the arc under a focused control.

Also, drop your heat to 125-130. That’s ample to weld 1/8” with 3/32” filler. You can go full pedal and stuff filler in to control the puddle that way instead of fussing with the pedal trying to keep from blowing through the material.

I understand everything that is being said. I'm just to the point though that I'm starting to doubt that I am even capable of becoming proficient at this. I am focusing on the arc length and keeping it short... if it is too long now then I might as well stop wasting everyone's time.

I'm including a couple of pictures from this morning. These are also 1/8" mild steel with the machine set to 130A at full pedal. One shows two beads on a corner joint on one side of the vertical and the other picture shows the opposite side with one additional bead. I keep fighting to keep the heat affected zone small and yet see fusing between the vertical coupon and the base on the opposite side. I should be seeing a joining of the two pieces of metal on the backside shouldn't I? It seems like the harder I try to get the penetration and fusing on the back side the larger the heat affected zone is.

I'm determined to be successful at this. There are times, though, that make me wonder if my older eyes are just not going to see as well as they really need to see to get even closer to the puddle.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff

[cj737]

When you weld a T joint like that, it’s not uncommon to not see filler/weld pushing through to the backside. For that reason, most T joints get welded on both sides, front and back. This also insures a much stronger weld.

If you want to single pass it, then you can “cheat” by creating a small gap intentionally (say 1/32”) and then continue how you are welding. If you don’t see weld then, there are other issues effecting your results. For instance, traveling too fast prevents the weld from fully driving into the backside. Too much filler causing the puddle to cool.

T joints are tricky because you need to focus the arc right at the root of the joint. If you move too quickly, you’ll get a void below the weld. To understand whether this is happening, cut some of the coupons in the middle of the weld run. Polish and etch it. See if there is a lack of fusion at the joint. If so, this is contributing to the lack of full penetration.

When I have mentored new welders, I always try to have them “keyhole, then dip”. Get your puddle, cause the parent metal to actually melt away ever so slightly causing a small “keyhole” at the leading edge of the puddle, then dip your filler to cure it. Let the added filler fuse in, then advance, pause for a keyhole, dip, pause, advance, keyhole….

130 amps should be enough heat provided the filler is not being over-added and your arc is accurately pointed at the joint (45* to the base) and your travel speed is not too fast.

The HAZ is not something to worry about. Heat saturates metal. You can quench your coupons in a bucket of water to help calm that down too.

Hope this helps?

[Arno]

I'm determined to be successful at this. There are times, though, that make me wonder if my older eyes are just not going to see as well as they really need to see to get even closer to the puddle.

If you are over 40 or already wearing prescription glasses then I'd recommend getting some cheater lenses that you can click into your helmet. They tend to come in a range of +0.5 to around +3.0 magnification and are available for most helmets.

These provide additional magnification and makes your view of the puddle a lot bigger and details, which can help out hugely.. I know I need to use 'em

Disadvantage, like reading glasses, is that 'further away' bits get blurry so you'll have to get used to flipping your helmet up and down a bit more if you need to adjust something on your setup.

Also.. If you are older then your eyes just need more light to 'work', so also experiment with the shade setting on your helmet. If you're now rocking a shade 12 you may well be able to drop down to a 10 or even a 9. Just try it.. If you get discomfort on the eyes then it's too light and you need to bump up a level, but there's no risk running a 'too low' shade as the helmet still filters out all the UV and such.

Also keep in mind that the arc brightness on TIG is directly proportional to the welding current, so if you run lower amps then dropping the shade in response can also be done.

Investing one of the more modern 'clear view' helmets here can also help. They often have a bigger viewport, more 'full colour' view of the puddle and many of them do automatic shade level adjustment depending on the amount of light they receive.

All in all I'd say you're doing quite decent. First steps are getting a good bead and penetration going. Once that's kinda 'natural' then you have brain-capacity available again to start focussing on things like keeping the HAZ under control.

Bye, Arno.

[Jeff2016]

Hi CJ,

Thanks,

Your input does help. Thank you.

When you weld a T joint like that, it’s not uncommon to not see filler/weld pushing through to the backside. For that reason, most T joints get welded on both sides, front and back. This also insures a much stronger weld.

If you want to single pass it, then you can “cheat” by creating a small gap intentionally (say 1/32”) and then continue how you are welding. If you don’t see weld then, there are other issues effecting your results. For instance, traveling too fast prevents the weld from fully driving into the backside. Too much filler causing the puddle to cool.

T joints are tricky because you need to focus the arc right at the root of the joint. If you move too quickly, you’ll get a void below the weld. To understand whether this is happening, cut some of the coupons in the middle of the weld run. Polish and etch it. See if there is a lack of fusion at the joint. If so, this is contributing to the lack of full penetration.

When I have mentored new welders, I always try to have them “keyhole, then dip”. Get your puddle, cause the parent metal to actually melt away ever so slightly causing a small “keyhole” at the leading edge of the puddle, then dip your filler to cure it. Let the added filler fuse in, then advance, pause for a keyhole, dip, pause, advance, keyhole….

130 amps should be enough heat provided the filler is not being over-added and your arc is accurately pointed at the joint (45* to the base) and your travel speed is not too fast.

The HAZ is not something to worry about. Heat saturates metal. You can quench your coupons in a bucket of water to help calm that down too.

Hope this helps?

I like your advice about cutting some coupons and etching them. I've thought about doing that in the past. That will be good motivation. It's also about the only way I'll know for sure how close I'm getting.

As I get a little more comfortable with the basics I'll try you keyhole advice. Just knowing that I don't necessarily need to see fusion at the base of the vertical on the backside is a little comforting. Knowing that the HAZ isn't as critical as I thought is a good thing, too. I have really been hung up on getting a good puddle and not overheating the base metal.

Right now I have to fight at staying a little relaxed while still trying to maintain arc distance, torch angle between the two coupons, torch angle slightly back from the puddle, speed of the torch and feeding the filler. I know it takes time. I don't know if it's a good thing that I need to put welding to the side when I'm in the middle of a big work project, or if I'm backsliding.

I appreciate all your advice.

Jeff

[Jeff2016]

Hi Arno,

Thanks for your advice.

If you are over 40 or already wearing prescription glasses then I'd recommend getting some cheater lenses that you can click into your helmet. They tend to come in a range of +0.5 to around +3.0 magnification and are available for most helmets.

These provide additional magnification and makes your view of the puddle a lot bigger and details, which can help out hugely.. I know I need to use 'em

Disadvantage, like reading glasses, is that 'further away' bits get blurry so you'll have to get used to flipping your helmet up and down a bit more if you need to adjust something on your setup.

Also.. If you are older then your eyes just need more light to 'work', so also experiment with the shade setting on your helmet. If you're now rocking a shade 12 you may well be able to drop down to a 10 or even a 9. Just try it.. If you get discomfort on the eyes then it's too light and you need to bump up a level, but there's no risk running a 'too low' shade as the helmet still filters out all the UV and such.

Also keep in mind that the arc brightness on TIG is directly proportional to the welding current, so if you run lower amps then dropping the shade in response can also be done.

Investing one of the more modern 'clear view' helmets here can also help. They often have a bigger viewport, more 'full colour' view of the puddle and many of them do automatic shade level adjustment depending on the amount of light they receive.

All in all I'd say you're doing quite decent. First steps are getting a good bead and penetration going. Once that's kinda 'natural' then you have brain-capacity available again to start focussing on things like keeping the HAZ under control.

Bye, Arno.

I laughed at the cheaters... I have been experimenting the last few years with higher and higher power cheaters. I now use the 3.0 that you mentioned. As soon as someone comes out with a 3.5 I'll be first in line. (I have actually thought about having a pair of glasses made similar to what I wear for computer work... different focal length for reading. Just haven't gotten that desperate yet. Lol

My wife really went overboard seven years ago when she bought me a Speedglas helmet as a combined gift for several holidays. It seems like a great helmet and although there are newer/improved helmets, I would have a hard time spending the money on something unless it was really head and shoulders better. (I admit that wasted a bunch of time after watching a YouTube video by This Old Tony when was showing a helmet with variable zoom. I took it at gospel and figured there had to be one out there... I think it was clever tease that didn't have any basis. Sure sounded good, though.)

I will definitely play around a little with the setting the shade level. Right now it's at 11. I'll bump it down a little and see if it makes any changes. I'm pretty much staying below 130 amps for steel. I may need to adjust it up for those times when I am working with aluminum.

Thanks for the encouragement, too. I know that I'll never be a field welder, and working out of position that just doesn't seem like something that my body would be able to do much of even if my welding was perfect. I just want to get as good as I can welding at a bench or in reasonable positions on a vehicle.

Thanks again.

Jeff

[BillE.Dee]

Hi Jeff. Ive been following the posts and can certainly appreciate everyone helping. Just a quick penny's worth,,,have you tried just running beads on flat clean steel to see what the machine will do for you? As mentioned the tungsten will need to be kissy close to the material with a slight tilt so you are pushing the puddle.
Also, maybe you can find someone close to you that can give some steering points.

[Jeff2016]

Hi Everyone,

I was away from the welding exercises for several months. Been back at it now for the last 6 or 8 weeks.

The last few days (maybe a week) I've been working with stainless.

I have been working mostly with 1/8" coupons for the stainless, and for most of what I have been doing with mild steel. Most of the practicing has been done with 1/16" filler. In general, I have been improving with respect to a narrower HAZ.

I have been working lately with 3/32" filler in an attempt to build the weld area up for lap and corner joints.

I am getting hung up with the 3/32"... if the weld puddle isn't big enough (and hot enough) the filler tends to stick when I dab. If I bump up the current the weld area gets too hot, I think mainly because when I stick the filler my travel stops and the HAZ gets wider.

Maybe this is something that will come with time and practice. Any thoughts? Thanks to all of you.

Jejj

[Jeff2016]

Hi,

Just for reference, this is a 1/8" lap joint using the 3/32" 308L filler.

Jeff

[tweake]

very nice

[Jeff2016]

Hi Everyone,

I have been working on outside corner welds on mild steel cubes. The metal is 11 gauge.

I'm using 3/32" filler.

I'm being careful, trying to keep the HAZ from getting too hot.

The problem I'm having is when I add the filler it sticks slightly until the puddle catches up to it. I'm afraid if I try to get closer to the puddle that I will end up putting the filler into the tungsten.

I could try using 1/16" filler, but, I don't want to compromise the cooling affect of the bigger filler.

Am I looking at this wrong?

Jeff

[cj737]

Sticky filler is too cold parent metal (usually). For 11 ga corners, I like #5, 12-15cfh, and I run it on 130 amps with a pedal to ease off.

Outside corners really depend heavily on direction. Are you up, down, flat, horiz? If you’re comfy, I like downhill so gravity drags the puddle into the heat so I can run hotter. Uphill, I am dragging the puddle and using less heat which makes feeding rod a bit trickier.

Don’t know if that helps any?

[Jeff2016]

HI CJ,

Thanks. All your input is helpful.

I've been running an #8 cup, about 20 cfh, and 125A.

I'm still working to get my vision locked in on the puddle, so almost all of the welds have been horizontal to keep things as simple as possible.

I'll work on making the puddle hotter and speeding up a little.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff

[cj737]

Dropping from a #8 to a #5 helps with outside corners. The bend actually splits the argon shield and heats up the puddle (akin to long arcing). If you can, drop to a #5 and try a few runs. The tighter corner may help you more than you’d think. It really does help dial in the heat zone and keep the weld puddle nice and fluid.

[Jeff2016]

Hi Guys,

Here are a couple of examples of the corners.

@CJ - I tried the #5 cup and didn't have success right away. Maybe it will take a little more time using that setup.

I hope to get more weld time today.

Thanks for all your help.

Jeff

[cj737]

Not much wrong with those results

[Jeff2016]

Hi CJ,

Thanks... it's means a lot coming from you.

I'm a slow learner, but I'm feeling better about the results.

Jeff

[cj737]

I would encourage you to do a more comprehensive job cleaning those parts front, back and edges before TIG welding them. You’d be surprised at how much better your arc and puddle behave with clean metal.

And for kicks, next time, weld each face with different types of filler wire. 70s2 on one face, 70s6 on another, 309 and 312 on others. Experimenting on the same material with differing fillers will teach you a great deal because you’ll have direct comparisons face-to-face.

You could really go nuts and pad one face with SilBr wire too for the experience.

[Jeff2016]

Hi CJ,

You are right... the outside faces of the cube metal weren't in such great shape. I wasn't planning on welding any of the outside faces on these, so I didn't clean them to get down to bare metal. The edges were bright bare metal, and I acetone-wiped them, too.

Most of the mild steel welding I have done has been with 70S6. Early on I used the 70S2. I've also used a couple different grades of stainless. I feel almost guilty using it on mild steel... I feel like I am cheating. Lol It's appearance is a lot more to my liking.

I've used SilBr on a couple of different occassions. I worked with some a few weeks ago and felt like I might mess up the mindset I had for the mild steel filler. I'll give it a try soon, though. (When you say padding, are you talking about applying it to the entire face (as opposed to a few beads)?

Thanks again.

Jeff

[cj737]

Yes, run beads from end to end, overlapping slightly. Then you can grind the whole face flat and smooth and have a soft face that’s super shiny.

[Jeff2016]

CJ,

Sounds interesting. Thanks.

Jeff