[BDoubleU]

BTW, in the picture above, provided by bdoublew, the torch angle looks a little bit much. What do you think? Long live the thread!

Yes, I think the pic was taken during post flow ...

[RedIron881]

DC root pass on .750 to .750 beveled butt weld on good old 6061 Aluminum.

Optimized-IMG_0294.jpg (74.04 KiB) Viewed 4199 times

After wire brushed and acetone wipe for cover pass

Optimized-IMG_0851.jpg (83.08 KiB) Viewed 4199 times

Full length root pass.

IMG_7047.jpg (75.42 KiB) Viewed 4199 times

[desert_warrior]

Hi all: I am new here, and very interested in purchasing a TIG welder for home/projects/etc. There are not a lot of
options at the low end, which are decent quality (I am trying to avoid cheap Chinese machines), so I was considering
a DC TIG/Plasma combo. Then I found this thread; very interesting as perhaps I can get away with a lower priced
DC only TIG welder. The tips sound interesting as an option for someone who will not weld aluminium very often. Any
further feedback is welcome. Cheers.

Jose aka Desert Warrior

[ironmanjay]

Good to see this DC aluminum talk. I only now have a Everlast PA 160STH and I was told that I could not weld aluminum. Well that is a bad thing since one of my projects was going to be a flat boat. Let me ask, if you have a AC stick can you weld aluminum with those after market TIG rigs?

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,

I wondered that myself, but I have come to the conclusion that AC without high freq stabilisation will not work. Hence Jody's video with the AC buzz box hooked up to a rectifier to convert it back to DC. This may be crap, somebody out there will correct me if im wrong.

Mick

[BDoubleU]

Just to clarify a few things ... AC Tig with Argon is still the preferred way & typically what's recommended in the industry. As Welders, we just don't like to be told something "can't be done" ... So it's good conversation to tell stories about welding aluminum with DC & helium. Just keep in mind that most people use AC because it's more consistent & user friendly. In addition, helium is expensive & introduces other issues to the process ...

Keep in mind that Helium runs at a much higher arc voltage than argon & not all machines will perform with it. Some newer units monitor arc voltage & will shut down if the voltage is too high. You also need to run 2x the flow rate of argon & remember that helium floats away, while argon settles & is heavier than air. In addition, be prepared for poor arc starts ... As helium doesn't carry the arc as well as Argon either. It's also very tough to add filler with a DC arc on aluminum ... So the bead doesn't always look like a stack of dimes.

AC buzz boxes have trouble with aluminum Tig because the arc goes out every 1/2 cycle. Chances are, the arc may only ignite every other cycle - called rectification. That's why they didn't use old AC sine wave machines for aluminum until they figured out High Frequency ... Which keeps the arc lit. Now, square wave technology has improved it ... But even the most advanced inverters on the market struggle with arc outages & continue to use HF or a high voltage in the process.

It can be done ... But I wouldn't recommend buying a DC unit to weld aluminum or adapting an AC buzz box ... Unless you absolutely have no choice or are very familiar with the process (ie: expert, trained, etc).

Happy welding ...

[admin]

DC root pass on .750 to .750 beveled butt weld on good old 6061 Aluminum.

Optimized-IMG_0294.jpg

After wire brushed and acetone wipe for cover pass

Optimized-IMG_0851.jpg

Full length root pass.

IMG_7047.jpg

Roy,

Thanks for your posts on Welding aluminum on DC. I think they are about the best info out there on the web...and the photos speak volumes about what can be done.

I did a simple repair a week or so ago on an aluminum shaft that was accidentally gouged by the tool changer on a cnc lathe It didnt look too pretty because the gash was about 3/4" deep and about an inch long so not enough space to really get going to stack dimes....the repair went much better than it would have using AC and it machined off clean.

Are you using standard welding grade helium or UHP (ultra high purity)

And BTW , I do remember meeting you and your gal at sun n fun in lakeland.

jody

[Otto Nobedder]

DC root pass on .750 to .750 beveled butt weld on good old 6061 Aluminum.

Optimized-IMG_0294.jpg

After wire brushed and acetone wipe for cover pass

Optimized-IMG_0851.jpg

Full length root pass.

IMG_7047.jpg

Roy,

Thanks for your posts on Welding aluminum on DC. I think they are about the best info out there on the web...and the photos speak volumes about what can be done.

I did a simple repair a week or so ago on an aluminum shaft that was accidentally gouged by the tool changer on a cnc lathe It didnt look too pretty because the gash was about 3/4" deep and about an inch long so not enough space to really get going to stack dimes....the repair went much better than it would have using AC and it machined off clean.

Are you using standard welding grade helium or UHP (ultra high purity)

And BTW , I do remember meeting you and your gal at sun n fun in lakeland.

jody

Sun and Fun? The EAA gathering?

Steve S

[RedIron881]

Judy,

I'm glad to see that this posting has gone around a lot with pushing 6,000 views! I know a lot of weldors out there still disagree but that's inevitable and that's okay. It's a handy tool to have in the toolbox. Glad it worked for you as it has for me many times. As for the Helium I've been using just normal welding grade He. I've used UHP cause the cert called it out, but didn't really notice much difference except the price.

It was nice meeting you at Sun 'n Fun (airshow). Surprised you still remember, ha ha! Since then, I've moved back to Florida and about to buy a house with my gal. Looking forward to get a little side weld shop going in the garage sometime soon!

Keep the videos coming. We enjoy them all.

Roy

[Otto Nobedder]

"Judy"???

LOL!

I'm thrilled I'm not the only one here who knows what "Sun 'n Fun" is...

Steve S

[TamJeff]

"Judy"???

LOL!

I'm thrilled I'm not the only one here who knows what "Sun 'n Fun" is...

Steve S

My fishing buddy, yet another Steve, used to run air traffic for sun n fun.

[gta18]

Guys, I have a harborfreight dc tig machine. I know I tried at one time to tig aluminum but I only have argon, I remember that I only got like a hole on the uncleaned plate I tried to weld.


does anyone know or have tried using straight argon with dc?

What would be the disadvantage or is it even possible with argon?

Thanks!

[Littlecub]

The Saturn 5 rocket was welded D C. 7.5 MILLION H.P. I welded engine actuator arms, aluminum tubing about 5 or 6 in. O D x 3/4 wall. Back in 1964.

[GreinTime]

Edit: forgot to read the previous 6 pages, and didn't realize what he was asking until I did... my bad!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[noddybrian]

@ Littlecub.

Welcome to the forum - now that's way cool to have worked on something like that - you'll make "Otto" jealous - coz in his words he's not a rocket scientist ( just plays with liquid hydrogen ! )did you do much work on the rocket or was this a one off part maybe for an outside contractor ? never heard much about the production of the Saturns - despite their significance in history - it's always the shuttle that gets the glory.

[Otto Nobedder]

Yeah, I'm jealous...

To have had even a small part in that piece of history would be a story my drinking buddies would be sick of...

Steve S

[modernwelding]

Its ridiculous that 90% of our country's "real welders" are unaware of this process and for the record its called DC STRAIT!!!!! and its very fun as well as extremely effective not to mention its much stronger, its pure and so the penetration is severely concentrated, its silent!!, it makes you feel important;) it makes know it all bobble heads tuck their tails and go bug someone else, and some might be thinking well more heat causes more warpage...true it does but DC STRAIT! magically becomes cold instantly(for the most part) and I have know idea why its cool right after? im not a fucking scientist nor care to be one...I do know that I've been welding DC STRAIT! for years primarily on 6061 aluminum with 4043 or 5356 filler at 280amps with 95% helium and i'll run 2 whole rods without stoping to change rod (or parts fucked) yeah yeah its orbital welding haha but the shits no problem for me taking my glove and petting the sexy ass welds I proudly layed down not even 10 seconds after SLOWLY letting off the pedal to completion without even trying to be a tuffguy and acting like my hands not welding itself to the part, so thats what I meant by the benefit of having more heat with less warpage and if you want you can travel faster or don't bottom line is DC STRAITS THE SHIT!!!!!and to the fools trying to use fancy terminology to sound like you know what your talking about, before denying that its possible maybe try overcoming the obstacle...

[Otto Nobedder]

Its ridiculous that 90% of our country's "real welders" are unaware of this process and for the record its called DC STRAIT!!!!! and its very fun as well as extremely effective not to mention its much stronger, its pure and so the penetration is severely concentrated, its silent!!, it makes you feel important;) it makes know it all bobble heads tuck their tails and go bug someone else, and some might be thinking well more heat causes more warpage...true it does but DC STRAIT! magically becomes cold instantly(for the most part) and I have know idea why its cool right after? im not a fucking scientist nor care to be one...I do know that I've been welding DC STRAIT! for years primarily on 6061 aluminum with 4043 or 5356 filler at 280amps with 95% helium and i'll run 2 whole rods without stoping to change rod (or parts fucked) yeah yeah its orbital welding haha but the shits no problem for me taking my glove and petting the sexy ass welds I proudly layed down not even 10 seconds after SLOWLY letting off the pedal to completion without even trying to be a tuffguy and acting like my hands not welding itself to the part, so thats what I meant by the benefit of having more heat with less warpage and if you want you can travel faster or don't bottom line is DC STRAITS THE SHIT!!!!!and to the fools trying to use fancy terminology to sound like you know what your talking about, before denying that its possible maybe try overcoming the obstacle...

Feel better now? Few, if anyone called it "impossible", and our webmaster posted pics of his own work in DCEN aluminum (DC Straight, not "STRAIT!"... for the record). Seems like a rather agressive reply when no one was disputing the process. We take a calm approach to sharing knowledge, since everyone is interested and enjoys learning new things. The moderator's job is to keep it that way.

Welcome to the forum.

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

Its ridiculous that 90% of our country's "real welders" are unaware of this process and for the record its called DC STRAIT!!!!! and its very fun as well as extremely effective not to mention its much stronger, its pure and so the penetration is severely concentrated, its silent!!, it makes you feel important;) it makes know it all bobble heads tuck their tails and go bug someone else, and some might be thinking well more heat causes more warpage...true it does but DC STRAIT! magically becomes cold instantly(for the most part) and I have know idea why its cool right after? im not a fucking scientist nor care to be one...I do know that I've been welding DC STRAIT! for years primarily on 6061 aluminum with 4043 or 5356 filler at 280amps with 95% helium and i'll run 2 whole rods without stoping to change rod (or parts fucked) yeah yeah its orbital welding haha but the shits no problem for me taking my glove and petting the sexy ass welds I proudly layed down not even 10 seconds after SLOWLY letting off the pedal to completion without even trying to be a tuffguy and acting like my hands not welding itself to the part, so thats what I meant by the benefit of having more heat with less warpage and if you want you can travel faster or don't bottom line is DC STRAITS THE SHIT!!!!!and to the fools trying to use fancy terminology to sound like you know what your talking about, before denying that its possible maybe try overcoming the obstacle...

Man you need a coffee break. Lots of people interchange using the designators DCEP, DCEN, DC+, DC-, DC straight, DC reverse, including Miller.

This Miller Syncrowave 250 uses the plus/minus designators instead of reverse/straight.

image.jpg (61.38 KiB) Viewed 2994 times

[ljdm1956]

Does anybody have any success DCEN Tig welding Aluminum using straight Argon, and if so, what machine settings? I don't have access to Helium, don't want to buy it for limited aluminum jobs. My machine is DC only. Rather not spend more to upgrade to an Ac machine. My Mig spool gun os ok for some jobs, but Tig would be handy to have though. Again - we all agree DCEN works, but is helium the only way to go? Thanks for all the great pics, and info.

[Superiorwelding]

ljdm1956,

The first questions that would need answered is how thick of material and what type of joints as this would determine the settings. I am not a pro at DC alum but will help out if I can.

I was not originally involved in this thread but have read it and shared some of the posts with others. It amazed me how many welders out there did not believe that you could weld Alum on DC.
-Jonathan

[ljdm1956]

Most important question is - Can it be done with Argon, and not helium. Settings would depend on material thickness of course,
but in my efforts, am I wasting my time by trying it with only argon.

[Braehill]

ljdm1956,
On materials of a certain thickness Argon is only one factor in the equation. Say you have a Miller Trailblazer 500 and you need to weld some 1/8" Aluminum corner joints, I'm quite sure you could muster up enough amps to get it welded with Argon as your shielding gas. In the same token if you're using a 185 amp inverter welder trying to weld a fillet weld on 3/8 plate even Helium is not going to be enough to clear that hurtle. So the Devil's in the details if you know what we're saying.

Len

[ljdm1956]

I understand limitations due to machine size. I have a 200amp inverter machine, so I know the max thickness, single pass / multiple passes, etc.... again, wondering / wanting to know if Helium is absolutely necessary, or makes it easier. Example - if I wanted to do fillet welds on .125", is a 200 amp inverter machine capable with argon only. Although I still don't understand the principle of DCEN aluminum tig welding as far as is Helium a necessary component? Similar to you can Tig steel with argon, but not with C25.

In a nutshell -

If you have clean enough material, and therefore don't need the cleaning action of AC, and you have the sufficient amp capacity for the material thickness to be welded, can you weld TIG aluminum DCEN with straight argon?

[AKweldshop]

In a nutshell -

If you have clean enough material, and therefore don't need the cleaning action of AC, and you have the sufficient amp capacity for the material thickness to be welded, can you weld TIG aluminum DCEN with straight argon?

Try it and see....

~John