TIG WELDING ALUMINUM CORRECT TUNGSTEN??

smallfly · Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:50 pm

i will bet that 99 percent of us have watched jody's tests of electrodes . he has come to the conclusion that 2 percent lanthanated will work the best for all types of tig welding . i agree fully after watching the tests . i was recently told
that i will not be able to use 2 percent lanthanated to tig weld aluminum with my ''miller 180 sd . i was also told that i should use pure tungsten to weld aluminum ,with this ''type'' miller welder. this is an eleven year old miller welder . he referred to this as a ''CONVENTIONAL WELDER''. it is a ''syncrwave model'' welder. it is NOT AN'' INVERTER TYPE '' welder.

this person manages a welding store --one of 5--stores all owned by same owner and they have had miller distributor ship --
like forever. soooo i would guess he knows what he is talking about . please believe me when i say i ain't tryin to ''pick a fight here''--i just wish someone would explain --is this true???? can i indeed not use 2/ percent lanthanated to weld alum. with a conventional transformer type miller welder?? i have lots of pure tungsten electrodes sooo it ain't that iam too cheap to buy both ---can anyone out there explain this. only hope iam smart enough to UNDERSTAND explanation. thanks in advance. re steve in mt. ps-- if u ask the experts at miller factory --the answer u will get is 2/percent ceriated--they seem to be ''stuck'' on this answer and cannot -or do not try to answer my questions. which i stated above. thanks again

Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:14 pm

I've welded aluminum with a synchrowave, using 2% Thoriated... I don't recommend this, but it's an example.

2% Lanthanated will work on the most primitive TIG welder, with some caution....

Use a big enough tungsten (overheat can cause some interesting issues with alloyed tungsten). Don't make a needle out of it. Grind it 45*, and knock the point off (Keeping as much cross-section as possible). If you have the benefit of arc-balance (common synchrowave feature), run it as far negative (toward penetration) as the material will allow.

I give the cautions because I got about 35 hours' work from someone not knowing how to use alloy tungsten on a transformer machine. They had attempted a repair to a complex vaporizer loop using a thoriated tungsten way too small for the job they were attempting (or too much heat, or any other issue listed above), and the tungsten literally "puked" all over the weld area making hundreds of leaks and micro-cracks. I have pictures of the dye-pen from this, and the repair, posted somewhere here.

Do not be afraid of the lanthanated; Your "in the bidness forever" LWS is not in the know, as this is recent knowledge. Just read carefully the recommended amperage range, and stay within it, or get a bigger tungsten.

Steve S

newschoppafowah · Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:10 pm

When you solve this problem, go back around to your LWS and a few other folks and ask about the color coding system on the tungstens. That'll be a few years in the 5th circle you won't get back.

I don't have the specific answers for you RE: transformer machines, but I'll tell ya for sure:

1. Your LWS guy works at a counter.

2. A lot of old timers will twist you all up about the color codes. Most of the time they are wrong.

smallfly · Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:06 am

ok--i gotta ask what is meant by '' L W S'' GUY . just showin my stupidity . i wil try that 2/percent lanthanated on alum. tomorrow. thanks in advance . re steve in mt.

Superiorwelding · Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:14 am

smallfly wrote:ok--i gotta ask what is meant by '' L W S'' GUY . just showin my stupidity . i wil try that 2/percent lanthanated on alum. tomorrow. thanks in advance . re steve in mt.

LWS; Local Welding Supply
-Jonathan

nightscale · Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:15 am

Lanthanated tungsten isnt that common here in the land of oz most ppl just use ceriated tungsten for everything

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Dblcorona · Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:32 am

There are probably a 100 answers to this question if you ask around. Green (100% tungsten) was used quite often. It works but it balls up and some will tell you to ball it before welding anyway. Green tends to not hold up great after awhile. It will start getting micro fractures in the tungsten and those little bits will start coming off. We use 2% ceriated (it was orange and now has been switched to grey) seems to hold up well for us. We don't have any transformers anymore but it worked good when we did.

Oscar · Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:47 pm

smallfly wrote: i wil try that 2/percent lanthanated on alum. tomorrow.

You could have just done this "today" instead of wondering, and just posted your results in the first place. Tungstens are cheap enough.

Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:21 pm

Oscar wrote:
smallfly wrote: i wil try that 2/percent lanthanated on alum. tomorrow.
You could have just done this "today" instead of wondering, and just posted your results in the first place. Tungstens are cheap enough.

True enough, but since a supposedly knowledgable person told him it wouldn't work, it's still wise to ask the question, so if there were problems, an inexperienced person would recognize them and know the problem was not his technique.

That said, I actually prefer pure tungsten on a transformer machine. It's what I'm used to, and I've made it work well, so why change? I do have a couple sticks of Ceriated that I've not tried on aluminum yet; I may give it a go, just for the comparison. (Syncrowave 250DX transformer.)

Steve S

Drifta-X · Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:59 pm

nightscale wrote:Lanthanated tungsten isnt that common here in the land of oz most ppl just use ceriated tungsten for everything

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It's all we have at Tafe in Melbourne

nightscale · Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:14 pm

Drifta-X wrote:
nightscale wrote:Lanthanated tungsten isnt that common here in the land of oz most ppl just use ceriated tungsten for everything

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It's all we have at Tafe in Melbourne

tafe is the only place i have seen it used.

most of the shops ive worked in use thoriated, ceriated and zircon tungstens

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zank · Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:11 pm

My local shops (from Airgas to locally owned and operated) all seem about 10-15 years behind the times when it comes to any advanced TIG. A week ago I asked an Airgas guy if he's sold a dynasty 280 yet. His reply? "You mean a 300?"

zank · Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:14 pm

I use 2% lanthanated on my little transformer. Works great for me. I have had it spit on me (well, not on me, but on the weld) when I ramp up the amps too quickly.

Braehill · Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:18 pm

I use every kind except zircon on my Dialarc but as said you have to stay well within it's amp carrying capacities. I think an inverter will let you up the amps a little more than a transformer will. That's just my observation on it.

Len

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smallfly · Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:12 am

well i started this thread --so tonight i took my miller 180--sd a ''transformer'' traditional syncro-wave machine .

and some 1/4 inch clean aluminum. i cleaned alum. with new stainless brush and wiped with acetone. wiped filler rod with acetone --some of this rod has been in my shop 12 yrs. i ran some beads on the flat alum surface.

first i tried --- 2 percent lanthated --it seemed to work fine.

second i used --a new electrode product from arc zone which they say will work for all types of tig. it seemed to work fine

third i used --2 percent ceriated. this is recommended by miler welding for everything. it seemed to work fine.

fourth i used --pure tungsten. it seemed to work fine .

i used a 3/32 inch. dia. in all tests.

now by noooooooo means am i a professional welder but i will say each electrode welded a little different . they all will work.

on'' my machine''and i can only speak for this machine . iam positive bout two things. no. 1--if i continue to practice practice practice practice --my alum. welding will start to look better. and no. 2--there are ''naturals in say baseball and basketball and tennis--- but there are no natural born ''tig welders'' the really good one's all had to practice practice practice.

some people refer to it as ''seat time''. that's my $.02 --wadda u guys think?? re steve in mt.

Oscar · Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:49 am

Honestly, that is what I suspected. With the exception of the strictest, most stringent welding conditions, most of the results from different electrodes will be within reason.

TamJeff · Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:59 am

With a Miller SW, you can dial in the balance well enough to get fantastic welds with pure. It's all I use. Just bought a bunch of new/old Sylvania (in the wood trays) pure. My main machine is a Miller SW. I have it set to where the pure tungsten only balls the size of the 1/8" electrode. It's not as much balled, as it is domed. I use a stubby torch and one section of pure that fits that (no gas lens) torch will last me upwards of a month and I weld a lot every day. The trick is not to weld too closely with balled tungsten. If it starts to sound fuzzy and that ball is dancing, it's too close.

I admit I'm a bit antiquated in my approach, but I have seen a lot of great welds on aluminum done with pure tungsten. Actually, the best aluminum welds I have ever seen in my life were welded with it.

Where balled tungsten really shines is when welding in the ditch, or in other words, a gap with a backer, in this case, a male fitting. 1/8" pure balled to 1/8" in a 3/16" gap. The arc stream from the ball provides a soft bite on the shoulders of the gap as the brunt of the arc stream is wetting out the backer. From there, it's just a matter of rolling that ball out of the ditch as the puddle builds, allowing you to stop the weld at exactly the size that you want. In this case, just a RCH above flush.