little help here !!

4130jim · Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:13 am

I'm trying to weld 1-5/8s 4130 .083 wall tubing. I cleaned the mil scale using a 120 grit flap disc and wiped it down with acetone , when I weld my welds turn gray and to me don't look right. I'm using a hobart eztig 165i , 100% argon set at 15cfh , weldcraft 17 torch with cerated tungsten ( came with the machine ) , it's on dc mode and I have it set between 75-80 amps , Im using 1/16 er70-s2. what am I doing wrong ? Also I can't seem to weld continuous around the tube ?

4130jim · Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:23 am

Holy big pictures batman ...lol .....I'll work on that ...newbies !!!!

Rick_H · Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:35 am

It looks a little cold in he actual weld but the haz is a little wide personally... but that should be enough amps...welding all the way around is all about positioning and learning to manipulate your body and torch in position.

How tight is your arc? Color doesn't look horrible in the pics.

4130jim · Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:46 pm

Rick_H wrote:It looks a little cold in he actual weld but the haz is a little wide personally... but that should be enough amps...welding all the way around is all about positioning and learning to manipulate your body and torch in position.

How tight is your arc? Color doesn't look horrible in the pics.

you got me on how tight my arc is , I wouldn't know , I'm maybe 1/8th" away from the tubing ??? ... I'm trying to work on that too. on one side of the tube I burned a hole completely through it. Do I need a narrower HAZ zone and how would I acomplish this ? I do have a wp9 torch and 2% thoriated tungsten as well as a gas lens for it , I've used it a couple times but it gets hot really quick , also I go full peddle when welding should I go full peddle to start a puddle then back off a little as I weld ?

GreinTime · Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:37 pm

A WP9 is a water-cooled torch and shouldn't be used without a cooler man. That would be why it's getting so hot.

In regards to your pedal operation, if you are welding at full pedal you need to up your amperage and then depress the pedal until you have the penetration/heat/bead width that is appropriate for what you are welding. There is no point in having a pedal that you flat foot all the time or else you could get away with using a torch switch

4130jim · Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:07 pm

GreinTime wrote:A WP9 is a water-cooled torch and shouldn't be used without a cooler man. That would be why it's getting so hot.

In regards to your pedal operation, if you are welding at full pedal you need to up your amperage and then depress the pedal until you have the penetration/heat/bead width that is appropriate for what you are welding. There is no point in having a pedal that you flat foot all the time or else you could get away with using a torch switch

the 9 series torch I have is air cooled i bought it off eBay from htp weld , I made sure of that , I believe it's a ck world wide torch. I bought that , the stubby gas lens kit , flex hose and adapter for my welder. I think it gets hot cause I'm trying to weld above it's intended amp range ( it's only rated at 90 amps Max ). i want to try a torch switch so when I go to cage my car I'm not fighting the foot control just don't know what one to get. thanks for the heads up on the foot peddle.

Braehill · Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:58 pm

Your WP9 should be able to handle enough amps to weld .083 tubing without getting too hot. Sam's right about the pedal in that you shouldn't need to run it flat footed, set it a little higher than you need and push it to the floor to get started then back off to where it welds nice. Then get moving, fasters better when welding small tubing.

Torch angle is very important while welding tubing, try to keep about 5-10* angle throughout the whole weld. With small tubing you'll have to turn the torch almost constantly as you progress around the tube. Your color will improve with the better gas coverage you get from maintaining the proper angle. If your fit up isn't perfect and the inside of the tube isn't cleaned or you don't purge the inside you can never expect to get perfect color.

All in all it looks like you just need more seat time and a few minor adjustments to your mechanics and you'll be fine.

Len

4130jim · Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:35 pm

snap , now that I think about it I did not clean the inside of the tubing !!!! I just did the outside , I'm using a " joint jigger " for my notches. I noticed on my cope that half the tube fit nice and tight the other half had a small gap ( maybe 1/16th" ). I also think I may have notched to much tube. I've never used a tube notcher before so that's gonna take some getting used to as well. thanks Len for the pointers , I can use as much help and encourgement as I can. i will try some of the pointers and suggestion you all have given me so far and post my results ....practice practice practice ! ...I also wanted to mention that I welded this tube in the pictures off the table so I could get use to standing and welding or stooping and welding , I'm also trying to simulate laying on my back and welding or out of position welds before I actually try to do anything to my car or any side work if that ever comes up ....thanks guys keep the suggestions coming !!

Oscar · Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:05 am

If this is your first project or one of your first ones, you picked a doozy. I would know, I sorta did the same thing. Shoulda practiced more on flat plate to get technique down, and tubing is always a challenge no matter what.

You need to learn to control the puddle size with the pedal, that's what it's for. It's not a drag race. A 9 will get hot real quick with 80ish amps, even if it's rated for 125. Doesn't mean it can't handle it, just saying it will be hot and you have to live with it unless you either get a bigger air cooled torch or a water-cooled 20 series torch.

Look at youtube videos from Stainlessheaders, part #6. If you use a lot of amps (or hold too long of an arc) and don't move quick enough, that's how you blow holes, as well as holding an inconsistent long arc (every time you inadvertently shake/fidget your torch hand, you're slightly increasing your arc length unknowingly dumping more power/heat into the part, and over the course of a coupe inches, it all adds up to an overheated part and BAM there is your blown hole). 1/8" arc length isn't bad, so long as that's what it actually is and you're not fidgeting that number and throwing it at us for the hell of it. Part of being consistent is actually knowing what you're doing when someone asks for a number.

If you're going to insist on only practicing on tubing, then forget about trying to weld all the way around the tubing in one shot---it won't happen due to not being able to manipulate torch angle at the appropriate rate. Do the welds in quarters: fillet to lap, go to opposite side fillet to lap, go to adjacent side and backstep the first weld and finish the first weld from lap to fillet, then do the last quarter lap to fillet. That's just how I do it, and not the only way of course.

4130jim · Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:36 am

no this not a project ... Thank god !!! .... Just trying to see if I can weld tubing is all , I'm still welding on plate and trying to get seat / helmet time. I don't feel comfortable yet to actually build anything. just wanted some opinions / input from others who are more experienced than I am. practice , practice , practice is what's in my head ..lol

Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:26 pm

4130jim wrote:no this not a project ... Thank god !!! .... Just trying to see if I can weld tubing is all , I'm still welding on plate and trying to get seat / helmet time. I don't feel comfortable yet to actually build anything. just wanted some opinions / input from others who are more experienced than I am. practice , practice , practice is what's in my head ..lol

You're on the right track, and doing all the right things.

My advice? Don't be hard on yourself... It's easy to be your own worst critic, and I'm still mine. Have patience with yourself. Celebrate your victories, but don't punish yourself for your failures. We all have them. After 30 years, we still occasionally have them.

We have FNGs at work (that's F'n New Guys...

) who are still in school who are just beginning to understand the difference between those beautifull bench-welds on fresh, clean, new material, and beat-up old crap that you may face in the real world.

Steve S

RonMartens · Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:37 pm

I've that same machine & I put a 9 head on too.
I can't see your pics for some reason .
Anyhow make sure your gas is set 16-22 correctly, I leave mine on 22.. & I use a large cup & gas lens, 0.040-2% lanthan elect & silicon bronze MIG wire & have used nickel wire for cro-mo
It will work great!, I weld up many ss, cro-mo small 1/4 & 3/8 tube , like fuel line fittings.. all the time. I make all types of projects from coil ss ,aluminum fuel line & 0.049 cro-mo tube.
Anyhoo,
use dc .. take your time. Give it up a bit more amps and throttle with the pedal. Keep your puddle heated with a tight C motion backing off amps slightly when moving your electrode. Don't look at your torch look at your puddle and keep the arch tight to the work but don't touch. Add filler to the front edge of your puddle and if you use too large a filler you may quench your puddle.
Take your time go slow & It's ok to skip around the joint. your joints have to be tight fitting too....
That's a good machine.
If you do get a water torch, I've one on my Lincoln, just hook up small hose valve and hook it to your faucet or hose bib. Use longer small Dia hose drain it out the shop door.
By no means is this an answer to your issue.you'll have to make certain your work is clean and you take your time to get it right. Remember to look at you
puddle and keep the electrode tight to the work..almost touching.
Hopefully, this help you some.