[ldbtx]

Went in to the shop at work today, since that's where I took my new AHP AlphaTIG 200x. I don't have a shop at the house and I have no desire to have all my argon blown into the pasture. Got the machine set up and looked around for some scrap. Nothing in the scrap bin but lathe swarf. Figured I'd go to the local metal house for some 11 ga drop but it was 1155 and they close at noon on Saturday. Ended up sanding (flap disk) the powder coat off a piece of 1/4" we'd salvaged from an old chair that was headed for the dumpster. Sharpened a tungsten and tried to run my first TIG bead.

For those of you who've never done this before, it ain't as easy as Jody makes it look.

I found that I have a real talent for dipping the tungsten...and I rapidly gained experience in sharpening said tungstens. I was wondering why the damned arc was so wimpy until I remembered that I needed to depress the foot pedal further than just what is required to start the arc. Interspersed with electrode dips and hitting the electrode with the filler rod, I finally managed to run some semblance of a bead.

first_bead.jpg (38.57 KiB) Viewed 2350 times

The rear right bead is my first actual bead. The fat thing on the left is some kind of anomaly I can't explain, but I did it. Guess I was moving too slow. To paraphrase our esteemed leader, that bead is too bad to even qualify as Fido's butt. The bead in front is my last one. I think it may have been a little cold because of the fact it's heaped up like that. May have been too much filler metal too. I'm not sure.

I left after that because the HVAC in the shop was dumping 85° air into the room. I'd called control and asked for cool air and didn't get it. Also, I'm just coming off of major hand surgery and was having trouble holding the torch comfortably after a few minutes. Gotta keep at it. Welding and shooting will be part of my rehab.

Parameters for those who are interested:
150 amps set on the machine-controlled by foot pedal
15 CFH Ar
ER70-S2 filler rod
1.5% lanthanated tungsten (LWS was out of 2%)

All tips on how to make it better will be appreciated.

ldb

[rick9345]

are you sure those are pictures of your weld beads?

Look an awful lot like pictures of my first beads, thought I had thrown those picture away,

[ldbtx]

are you sure those are pictures of your weld beads?

Look an awful lot like pictures of my first beads, thought I had thrown those picture away,

Yeah, they're really mine. You really did throw yours away.

ldb

[rick9345]

Yes.
But now I've learned not to be embarrassed by my first attempts.
Wish I had them back as proof of improvement.

[TRACKRANGER]

For those of you who've never done this before, it ain't as easy as Jody makes it look.

Well, ain't that the understatement of the century

IDB, you made a great start, just remember every inch gets easier, and Jody must've welded a million miles or more.

Keep up the effort - great work for a very first try.

[exnailpounder]

Thats not too bad. Alot of new guys cant even get a puddle started so I think you did good. Heres a timesaver...go ahead and sharpen a whole pack of tungsten...on both ends..because your gonna have to sharpen them anyway when starting out. It saves lots of trips to the grinder. Everone was where you are right now but in a few months you will be showing off some nice welds

[Rick_H]

Not a bad first attempt, yes they are a little cold. Looks like you did a decent job getting the coating off that could be given you issues also.

What settings were you using? I always tell guys start off with no filler, get use to holding the torch, torch angle and control, then move up to slowly adding filler and work on a pad of beads. Usually also recommend scratch or lift arc and then add the pedal in later, that way you can concentrate and not worry about everything yet.

If your using 3/32" tung, try 85 amps, #7 cup, 20cfh

[Oscar]

the orangeish/brownish smut near the bead indicates a possiblity of issues:

• too small of a cup size
• too much flow for the cup size
• too much torch angle
• dipping the tungsten into the molten puddle and not re-dressing it

The tall bead height (in general) could be indicative of:

• too much torch angle
• feeding the rod to the arc and not the leading edge of the puddle
• not establishing the proper size puddle in the first place
• too much filler rod addition
• too large of a filler rod
• --the most probably cause----not enough amperage, running cold (0.250" thick steel needs a lot of amps to get a proper puddle established quickly and with decent penetration)

1st and easiest fix for the tall bead height---don't worry about adding filler. Establish a puddle roughly 3/16" in diameter within about 4 seconds of striking the arc. Move it about 1/8" at a time, while trying to keep a consistent arc length of ~1/8" from the workpiece. Keep the foot-pedal at the same position. As you scoot on down the workpiece, if your arc-length changes, the puddle size will change as well. Too long, and the puddle size will grow and you will oversaturate the part with heat. Too short and the puddle size will shrink too small, and you may dip the tungsten. The finished bead is like a freeze-frame of the past. It shows what you just did, without having to rewind the VCR and look frame-by-frame.

[geo]

Simplify to conquer. Resist the urge to weld lol. One step at a time. IMO laying a bead is a few steps ahead of the curve.

First (no filler) prop and set torch angle like the books say. Next, see the puddle. Next see the difference between arc and tungsten. Move over, reset and repeat until the brain puts those things together without additional movement because it stays the same. This may take longer than you think.

Second, bring a filler rod into the picture just to gauge arc length (hopefully the first exercise taught you to focus on arc length not tungsten). After you have got the arc length down (or up was my biggest issue) after repeated static starts, start moving with the filler in the picture but never entering the puddle. Focus on torch angle (since arc length and filler rod are in the picture) and being loosey goosey because a longer tig bead is more about upper body movement than hands.
IMO do this exercise until you can put everything together for a foot in length before adding filler. It takes time but most welders run a dry run physically or in their mind at every joint.

Third, put the filler in the puddle. Put the filler in the puddle. Put the filler in the puddle. Put the filler in the puddle. Put the filler in the puddle. If you got that far without dipping you know you are moving and maybe naturally gifted. If not, clean up and start again and realize you need to move different (speed) or dip different.
This is a longer learning curve because of the variables of material and amperage and putting that together but when you get to 5 dips without touchdown stop and analyze the freeze frames. Adjust speed or pedal as needed. When your purdy with 5 dips count to ten dips, then 15, then 20,,,. Stop at each interval, analyze the freeze frames, adjust until purdy then move on. The counting helps develop a "beat" that is all your own. It's sometimes helpful to go back to step two and practise if your having a hard time with purdy.
IMO work with 12" or longer coupons right from the beginning. Short coupons can get you into bad habits IMO. Straitening out your beads helps a lot with positioning for later.

Fourth, before you leave flat, learn to write your name (hard for right handers). Start with big circles without moving the work piece. Left hand helps a lot on this exercise and more so in real world and work down to smaller circles in a spiral.
Doing circles and eventually writing teaches you your physical limitations with tig. This will help with real world projects by showing you where to stop and start your welding to keep a clear picture of the puddle and filler.

Okay, that's not how I started either lol but that's the way I learned to tig weld.

[ldbtx]

Thanks for all the encouragement and tips, guys. I certainly appreciate it. Might take a bit of time for me to get halfway decent at this, between my hand healing up completely and trying to find time to spend in the shop when I'm supposed to be ramrodding the planetarium remodel instead.

I would have gone in to the shop this afternoon, but I got sidetracked by Mother Nature. We had some severe weather with a few little tornados blow through. I'm a ham radio operator and we do storm spotting and tracking with NWS during severe WX. So, I was on the radio giving storm reports from about 1430 until a half hour ago. Had softball sized hail in a few places. And there's more to come tonight. I'm gonna catch a nap while I can, and get up when the next system gets here.

Thanks again for all the help, y'all.

ldb

[Otto Nobedder]

Yeah, thanks, IBD, for sending that storm my way!

Got some OT at work, and met it on I-12 about 1900 driving home.

There was a corresponding storm of "Stupid" on the interstate at the same time. Damn near spilled my beer!

I can't add anything to the excellent feedback you've been getting. Just keep at it. I crushed my left hand under a transmission when I was 16. It took a full year to get 100% use and control again. Welding, turning wrenches, and playing sax in the high-school band were my personal therapies, on top of the exercises prescribed by that sadistic second Lieutenant at Fort Lost-in-the-Woods.

Steve S

[ldbtx]

Yeah, thanks, IBD, for sending that storm my way!

Got some OT at work, and met it on I-12 about 1900 driving home.

There was a corresponding storm of "Stupid" on the interstate at the same time. Damn near spilled my beer!

I can't add anything to the excellent feedback you've been getting. Just keep at it. I crushed my left hand under a transmission when I was 16. It took a full year to get 100% use and control again. Welding, turning wrenches, and playing sax in the high-school band were my personal therapies, on top of the exercises prescribed by that sadistic second Lieutenant at Fort Lost-in-the-Woods.

Steve S

Steve,

We tried to get all the energy out of that storm system before it left Texas. One of my friends had a limb torn off a tree on the west side of his house. It blew across the roof, tearing it up and then landed on the power drop and tore the service off the side of the house. The hail also knocked the windshield out of his wife's three-week-old Kia Sorrento. Another friend lost all the glass in each of three cars, and said that at least one of them would probably be deemed totaled. I got lucky at my house. No real damage just a few small to medium sized limbs down and some inconsequential stuff blown around. Sorry we left enough balls to the storm to bother y'all in LA. Can't help you with the "Stupid" storms, though. We have those here too.

Recovery from hand surgery is truly a slow process. I asked my surgeon a week ago if I had unreasonable expectations about my progress. He said, "Probably". Bu when I told him I didn't have enough strength in my thumb to cock my single-action revolvers, he (a fellow shooter) said, "My God, we have to work on that" and signed me up for rehab 3 times a week. So, between rehab and my own personal therapies of weiding, shooting and reloading, things should be fine eventually.

And, thanks again to all you guys who responded with encouragement and tips for my TIG endeavors. I appreciate it.

LDB

[exnailpounder]

Single action??? Thats for squirrels! Be all you can be my friend...double stack .40cal Glock or better yet 9mm. Don't want to die for lack of shootin back and no hammers to cock!

[noddybrian]

Not that we are allowed to play with such things any more in the UK - but 454 Casull was single action - not likely anyone will shoot back if they catch one of those ? ( just saying !! )

[Otto Nobedder]

My personal protector is a 1911 Colt ACP. The Man-stopper. I'm deadly with it, and I have police-issue deadly-ass ammo for it.

In hurricane country, you must be ready for violence akin to what's happening in Baltimore, or what happened in Ferguson.

There are no race riots, but when all the services die, looting and robbing becomes common among those who never learned to take care of their own.

Steve S

[ldbtx]

True, the first .454 Casulls were SA. The only one I've ever fired was SA/DA. The owner of the gun hyped up the recoil so much that I flinched in anticipation and pulled the shot high. I was rather chagrined to find out that the recoil wasn't near as bad as he'd made out. Unfortunately for me, he'd loaded the rounds so hot that we had severe primer setback and I only got the one shot. Gotta go shooting with him again sometime.

SIngle action Blackhawk in .45 Long Colt (21 grains of W296 over a CCI LP Mag primer behind a 255 gr Keith bullet) ain't for squirrels. You'd never find pieces of the squirrel to cook. That's just for shootin' fun. So is the .45 Ruger Old Army cap and ball. Just good clean fun. Now for squirrels, the Ruger Single-Six .22LR/.22Mag convertible will do a nice job of putting squirrels in the pot without destroying dinner entirely.

I have three 1911s. My favorite semi-auto pistol of all time. When I'm carrying concealed I load with Federal HST 230 gr HP. At the range, I shoot my own loads of 5.8 grains of W231 over CCI LP Mag primer behind Hornady 230 RNFMJ. If I'm not dressed to cover a 1911, I carry a Walther PPK/S .380 loaded with Hornady Critical Defense. Yeah, .380 is a mouse gun, but with the factory sights replaced with the XS Sight System "dot the I" sights, it's an extremely accurate and easy to shoot mouse gun.

Obligatory welding content: went down to the shop at work today to get some more TIG seat time and the temp in the shop was 85°. My office was 68° and you could hang meat in the halls. Called Control Center for the third time and requested the same temperature air in the shop that the rest of the building is getting. Got the same answer for the third time, "I'll leave a note for the technician". Gotta love bureaucracy. I'd rather go shooting.

ldb

[GreinTime]

Hey, a 1911 is my favorite too, even after everything that happened. 230gr Federal FMJ will blow a hole in your leg, blow through your femoral artery, crack your femur, and then explode, leaving shrapnel from the top of your ass cheek down to where your knee used to be!

[noddybrian]

@ Otto - 1911 is always a good choice in my book - say what you like about 45acp it stops stuff - but I'd love to know what " deadly-ass ammo " is - I loaded a lot of ammo over the years - but that is a new one on me ! my own choice was Hornady XTP over the hottest load that would still function reliably in the given piece though as some people have ballistic clothing I used this stacked alternate with FMJ in a mag - I'd like to have tried the solid bronze with pre-cut petals - forget the name but FPS Russia did some ballistic gel shots with them - looked awesome - I think the Hornady " critical defense " factory stuff looked good if you don't hand load - they even did a spin off version with green polymer tips marketed for zombies !

AS we are way off topic again I thought I'd share this very scientific evaluation of .45 VS 9mm !

06aRQ-ejqmU

@IDBTX - only 454 I shot was a Freedom Arms 8" SA only 5shot gate load - I believe there are more conventional swing cylinders in this caliber now from Taurus & others - I too was nervous of it knowing the guy that had loaded ammo we were shooting was really stoking them - day before I'd shot a mates snub nose concealed carry 44 - that was an evil uncontrollable POS - 1shot - gun nearly over the shoulder - powder burned hand from muzzle flash & cylinder / barrel gap - plus deaf - strange how they fire them in films! - but the 454 was really sweet - yea it's big & heavy - but you can hold it on target with only slight pause to re-aquire sight line on next shot - not very practical - but a lot of fun if you want that sort of power - maybe bear ? - hope your hand improves soon.

Reckon we could start a hand loading leads to OCD collecting parts topic !

[dirtmidget33]

Hey, a 1911 is my favorite too, even after everything that happened. 230gr Federal FMJ will blow a hole in your leg, blow through your femoral artery, crack your femur, and then explode, leaving shrapnel from the top of your ass cheek down to where your knee used to be!

Hands on personal testing right there

[exnailpounder]

I guess that settles it ....45acp is THE round for protection. I am still waiting for my Illinois CCW "permission slip" but I have a Utah and carry when I leave Illinois and that is a Kimber Raptor 4" 1911.
Srteve, I was working in New Orleans 2 weeks after Katrina for about 8 months and everybody on my crew carried even while we were working. Not the nicest areas off of Elysian Fields (sp.) and it was made very clear to us we were not welcome even though we were there to help I witness e guy walkinto a bar I was at on Bourbon St., walk up to a guy and shoot him in the head 3 feet away from me. I carry regularly after seeing that. It still wakes me up.

[ldbtx]

@ I'd like to have tried the solid bronze with pre-cut petals - forget the name but FPS Russia did some ballistic gel shots with them - looked awesome

I think you're talking about the RIP (Radically Invasive Projectile) ammo by G2 Research. I too thought it looked pretty darn cool when I first saw it. Then I talked to an EMT about it. He pointed out that it'll make a bunch of little holes, none of which will bleed much and are easily patchable. Whereas, a single HP projectile will expand and leave a bigger and more destructive wound channel.

LDB

[AndersK]

Boys with toys...

Ever felt the mighty pounding in your chest from Bofors 155 mm shells?

Thats stopping power

[noddybrian]

@ AndersK - 155mm Bofors ? - maybe we lost something in translation but the only Bofors I've seen are anti aircraft guns usually 40mm - usually 2 or 4 barrel pieces - 155mm would be field guns or main battle tanks & no I never been close to a live round being fired - only demo stuff with inert projectiles - still cool but hardly a convenient carry piece ! oh & way too much for squirrel !

@ IDBTX - yes that's the bullet I meant - found the ballistic gel shot I was thinking of - it's on FPS Russia's second channel - still think based on the gel results it would be very effective - the petals look to cause more expansion damage than conventional hollow nose & break off so don't suffer with clogging from cloths material like some hollow nose yet the retained weight of the slug is good as is penetration - never likely to see them over here though sadly - say whats the deal with powder prices where you are - it's got ridiculous here & some are virtually unobtainable like Varget which I used to load a lot.

Here's the video


30FCdruFuG8

[AndersK]

Yeah, 155 mm artillery. 1200m across a valley, 9 live shells, closest I've been and you can sure feel the beat.
And you dont need to carry it, just your laser binoculars and the radio

Dont forget the 84 mm Bofors Carl Gustaf and AT4.
Even the backfire of a CG will knock you out, seen that at close range.

What was this thread about now again...
Yeah, tig beads, sorry mate for off topic

[ldbtx]

... What was this thread about now again...
Yeah, tig beads, sorry mate for off topic

S'okay with me, I like to talk about guns at least as much as welding.

LDB