[NYWELDERJim]

Hello folks,

My skills with TIG welding aluminum have been improving, slowly but improving. I've used up a lot of filler rod and all the scrap 1/16" to 3/16" pieces of aluminum I could get. I am having a terrible time welding the inside corner of a 90 degree joint. Outside joints are going pretty easy but I can't get any decent results on inside 90 degree joints. The arc wanders from one piece to the other, I can get a puddle started easily on one piece or the other but not both. I have tried establishing a puddle on one piece as close to the joint as possible, adding filler rod to increase the volume of the puddle until it comes into contact with the other piece than start feeding the puddle. I can't get any consistent results, in most cases I melt through one piece or the other.
Here are my conditions:
Miller Syncrowave 180
air cooled 17 torch with a gas lens, 3/32" dia. 2% lanthanum electrode, sharpened to a 30 degree point then allowed to form a ball, no. 7 cup
Argon, 17 CFH
practice aluminum parts are 5052 aluminum with some 6061 ocasionally
controlling the current with a footpedal, current limit set to 180 amps
Balance set to 8 which is what I have been getting good cleaning, good overall results on lap, butt and outside corner joints. I have varied the balance greatly with no difference in the performance on the inside corner joints.
Aluminum brushed with a stainless steel brush then wiped with acetone
1/16" dia. 4043 filler rod
practice T joints use 1/16" to 1/16" thick plate and 1/8" to 1/8" plate
Thanks,
Jim

[dunkster]

While I'm still feeling my way thru this AL myself, think I can safely say that 180A on 1/8, and certainly 1/16, is a bit high...at least IMO. I've noticed wander to be an issue until somewhere up around 3/4 pedal, especially when starting. For the 1/16, I'd try 65-80A along with maybe going to 1/16 tungsten and probably 125-140A on the 1/8, keeping the 3/32 tungsten here. This will put you more in the upper range of the pedal making for a more unwavering arc.

[MinnesotaDave]

Full pedal is the only sure remedy for a wandering arc on a transformer machine and a balled tungsten.

1/8" material, 150 amps is the bottom in my opinion (for starting the puddle).

When I teach people, not using enough amps is a common problem - dont be timid

Power up, establish a puddle in 3 seconds or less, back off as needed.

For example, I've tacked 1/16" aluminum with a burst of 230 amps for 3/4 of a second.

Experiment and have fun

[Gavin Melville]

I had the same problem, and it's getting better, hopefully while there is still aluminium on the planet.

I run 250 Hz, square wave with a sharp E3 tungsten. Balance around 62.5. At that balance the electrode stays sharp.

I got some training as my welds were too big, turned out I was not using enough current. The advice was simple, more amps, get moving. The weld pool should not be horseshoe shaped. Sometimes a small gap helps.

[TRACKRANGER]

Jim, this may help: Make sure your ground is equal on both parts. If you don't have a secondary ground cable, use a car battery jumper cable if necessary to create a ground path from the second part back to your main ground clamp.

And yes, high startup current, establish the puddle in 3 secs or less, if one side wets first, get some filler on it, then focus immediately on the other side and bridge with filler.
Trev

[NYWELDERJim]

Thank you very much for all the fast and excellent feedback!!!! A few things I noticed while runining perfectly nice small piece of aluminum:
1. as Dave suggested, the arc did stablize nicely when I applied more power. I admit I mashed the pedal out of frustration but got a good result. I have been timid about the amount of power.
2. as Trev suggested, if I applied more pressure to the parts to clamp them better, the arc also stabilized suggesting the higher clamping force provide a better ground form the edges of the plates penetrating the surface oxide. I am going to make up some ground cables with alligator clamps to ground each part back to a common grounding point.
3. I can establish a puddle easily within 3 seconds, no problem there.
4. Dunkster: I set the max current limit to 180 amps but control the actual current with the foot pedal. I do not know what the actual current is when I am welding, varies from establishing a puddle to motoring on (or in my case making a mess).
5. Gavin: yes when I finally do get a bead running in the joint, it is way to big, I have not been able to get a small bead running.
6. The 2% lanthanated electrode does not ball up very much, just a small ball at the tip when using the 3/32" dia.. I tried using the 1/16" dia. 2 lantanated and it quickly balled up and produced a highly unstable arc.
7. I am getting VERY GOOD at sharpening electrodes and taking nice new electrodes and turning them into very short electrodes in a few hours

THANK GOD aluminum is one of the most abundant elemenst in the earth's crust, at the rate I am using it to practice, I'll keep Alcoa in business for years.

Is an inverter-type machine better for all around aluminum TIG welding? If it is clearly a winner, it will give me the right reason to buy a Miller Dynasty 280.


Thanks, Jim

[Oscar]

Is an inverter-type machine better for all around aluminum TIG welding? If it is clearly a winner, it will give me the right reason to buy a Miller Dynasty 280.


Thanks, Jim

As much as the old-school people don't want to admit, inverter is the way to go for Aluminum. Depending on machine, allows for nearly infinite adjustability of the arc.

Some of the best aluminum AC welding I have seen all have one thing in common: Miller Dynasty Inverter TIG welders. BC over on welding web, Mike Zanconato both here and on weldingweb, and John Marcella over on yellowbullet forums all use either Dynasty 280 or 350dx inverters. Look up their aluminum welds. Of course operator skill is a huge part of it, but the inverter portion can't be denied.

[MinnesotaDave]

As much as the old-school people don't want to admit, inverter is the way to go for Aluminum. Depending on machine, allows for nearly infinite adjustability of the arc.

Some of the best aluminum AC welding I have seen all have one thing in common: Miller Dynasty Inverter TIG welders. BC over on welding web, Mike Zanconato both here and on weldingweb, and John Marcella over on yellowbullet forums all use either Dynasty 280 or 350dx inverters. Look up their aluminum welds. Of course operator skill is a huge part of it, but the inverter portion can't be denied.

Hey Oscar, where is the "angry old man shaking his fist at new technology" smiley face? Lol

I'll admit this much, inverters can make some people even better

.....and other people still suck at a higher price point

Maybe one of them will be mad enough to sell me their dynasty for half price

[NYWELDERJim]

Thanks, I'll keep practicing and devloping my skills using my Synchro 180. If and when I get significantly better, I opt for a Dynasty 280. I've seen John Marcella's aluminum welds as well as Zank's here on this site, true works of art.

I need significantly more torch time, my practice time is far to infrequent.

Thanks for the help!

Jim

[Gavin Melville]

Jim,

The link between the two parts is essential. I made a third hand, 6lb hammer head, drill and tap for 3 long 1/4 inch bolts, bend bolts, tip with bronze or copper. Jody uses one at times. I also tack the two parts. Try spacing the two parts slightly, perhaps 1/16". The weld then flows into the gap.

4043 filler works better for me than 5653, 4043 dissolves into the base metal, 5653 sits on top.

[NYWELDERJim]

Hello Gavin,
I have been meaning to make a third hand tool. I have some 2" dia. copper rod stock and some 3/8 dia copper rods. That will be my next project before I resume the aluminum torture test. I'll be sure to pay close attention to the grounding of the parts. Thanks,

Jim

[dunkster]

1/8" material, 150 amps is the bottom in my opinion (for starting the puddle).

Totally agree with this....now, that I spent the evening doing a few tube joints. I tend to forget that most of my work involves smaller massed parts. Thickness is there, but mass wise they call for lower amps...with this noob anyway.

Really noticed tonight though how much more temperature sensitive AL is compared to say steel or stainless. A much narrower rope to walk than I thought.

[NYWELDERJim]

I just picked up 40 pieces of 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" thick, 2" x 8" pieces of scrap. Plenty to practice on now!!!! Got a few 8" x 8" x 3/16" thick plates for running bead patterns on. Sharpened up a dozen 1/16 and 3/32" dia. 2% lanthanated electrodes. Got a full bottle of argon in stock. Ready for some serious seat time!!! Thanks for all the responses!!!

Jim

[Wobulate]

Hello folks,

My skills with TIG welding aluminum have been improving, slowly but improving. I've used up a lot of filler rod and all the scrap 1/16" to 3/16" pieces of aluminum I could get. I am having a terrible time welding the inside corner of a 90 degree joint. Outside joints are going pretty easy but I can't get any decent results on inside 90 degree joints. The arc wanders from one piece to the other, I can get a puddle started easily on one piece or the other but not both. I have tried establishing a puddle on one piece as close to the joint as possible, adding filler rod to increase the volume of the puddle until it comes into contact with the other piece than start feeding the puddle. I can't get any consistent results, in most cases I melt through one piece or the other.
Here are my conditions:
Miller Syncrowave 180
air cooled 17 torch with a gas lens, 3/32" dia. 2% lanthanum electrode, sharpened to a 30 degree point then allowed to form a ball, no. 7 cup
Argon, 17 CFH
practice aluminum parts are 5052 aluminum with some 6061 ocasionally
controlling the current with a footpedal, current limit set to 180 amps
Balance set to 8 which is what I have been getting good cleaning, good overall results on lap, butt and outside corner joints. I have varied the balance greatly with no difference in the performance on the inside corner joints.
Aluminum brushed with a stainless steel brush then wiped with acetone
1/16" dia. 4043 filler rod
practice T joints use 1/16" to 1/16" thick plate and 1/8" to 1/8" plate
Thanks,
Jim

Hi Jim,
I just noticed something in your pre-weld steps. You are first brushing the AL with a stainless steel brush, then wiping it down with acetone.
The sequence should be wipe down your joints with acetone first to remove any oil or other contaminants first, then brush to remove the AL Oxide.
Wobulate

[Oscar]

4043 filler works better for me than 5653, 4043 dissolves into the base metal, 5653 sits on top.

Never heard of this. Is this only for certain base metals?

[NYWELDERJim]

I clean off the crud like oils with the acetone first then I'll hitthe clean aluminum with a SS brush dedicated for use on aluminum only. I have not been able to practice this weekend, work keeps getting in the way.

Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback.

Jim

[Gavin Melville]

4043 filler works better for me than 5653, 4043 dissolves into the base metal, 5653 sits on top.

Never heard of this. Is this only for certain base metals?

Last post down this thread. I have seen it elsewhere - but not as clearly stated. I now don't if it is true...

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?50 ... highlight=

[Arno]

Some differences as far as selection and usage goes:

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/b ... -alloy.cfm


Bye, Arno.

[MinnesotaDave]

4043 filler works better for me than 5653, 4043 dissolves into the base metal, 5653 sits on top.

Never heard of this. Is this only for certain base metals?

Last post down this thread. I have seen it elsewhere - but not as clearly stated. I now don't if it is true...

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?50 ... highlight=

Gavin, You are misunderstanding what he said.

4043 depends on base metal dilution for much of it's strength - meaning the mixture of base metal and filler rod is needed for strength.

5356 does not require the dilution with base metal for strength - but this does not mean it sits on top of the parent metal - that would be a cold, incorrect weld.

Here are some other differences between them:
http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/b ... -alloy.cfm

[Gavin Melville]

Thanks, understood now.

[rick9345]

Dave,nice ability to be able to explain so clearly.
appreciate that