[MosquitoMoto]

Hey all.

Still really starting out but having a ball with my TIG.

I weld mostly thin alloy (maximum 3 mm, usually around half that thickness) and when I weld steel it is generally only 1.6 to 2mm thick. In short, pretty light stuff. Very often I use 1.6mm tungstens.

The standard torch that came with my TIG is a monster size 26 air cooled with a torch switch. Honestly, it's the size of a hammer. I put a stubby gas lens on it right away, along with a short end cap and a flex head. This has helped a little bit at the business end but needless to say it's still a big torch.

I tend to hold the torch right up at the end like a pencil, I am comfortable like that and it gives great control. But not only is the torch big, it's cables are of course big and heavy.

My question... would a #9 torch work for me? I understand most air cooled #9's are limited to around 120 amps and I'm fine with that.

Are the cables any slimmer and lighter on a #9 than they are on my big old 26? That would be another selling point...I feel like I need to do weight training just to support the damn cables on this thing.

Any opinions greatly appreciated. I'm limited to air cooled for now, so just wondering in a 9 would do it or if I'd be safer with a 17.

Cheers!

Kym

[Otto Nobedder]

Kym,

Get the #9 and don't look back. It's lighter, the lead's lighter and more flexible, and it will take more power than they suggest.

My li'l air-cooled -9 has welded at 200A for three or four minutes at a time with no ill effects, a brief cool-down, and repeat. It's welded 100A for an hour at a time before my glove got uncomfortable.

Then, when your hooked and want more, get a WP-20 and set up water-cooling, so you can weld all day and never feel heat in the torch...

More toys! HAHAHahahaha.....

Steve S

[MosquitoMoto]

Hey thanks Steve!

What I really wanted to know is that the leads are lighter and slimmer. That sells me. And yes I have seen Jody saying too that he has run small torches at higher than recommend amps, so it's good to have further confirmation of that.

I can't wait. I did a welding job for a mate last night, attaching a thick locking bolt to a small metal box, welding it both outside and inside the tiny box. The big #26 torch was a major pain to use in the confined space. I'm gonna be me a #9 with a stubby gas lens and a flex head and it sounds like it'll be a revelation.

Thanks.

Kym

[GreinTime]

@MosquitoMoto you won't need a stubby gas lens with a #9

[MosquitoMoto]

@MosquitoMoto you won't need a stubby gas lens with a #9

Oh really? That much smaller, eh? Cool.

I've never actually seen a #9 in the flesh to its all new to me. Great to hear that they are MUCH smaller than the 26. I could hammer in nails with my 26.


Kym

[GreinTime]

Give me a few and I'll take pictures of a 20 series torch compared to a 19 (I don't know, it's huge, like 5-600 amp torch) and then a #8 series 3 cup, and a #2 series cup. That's the other thing, you'll have to order series 2 consumables, they are not interchangable

[Otto Nobedder]

Yep. The size difference is an order of magnitude.

While you won't "need" stubbies, it does not hurt to have them in the kit.

I have a #4 cup I've ground down to "just" outside the standard collet, that, with a short back-cap, makes my torch head 1-1/4" from cap to tungsten tip for getting in to extremely tight spots. (The gas coverage is poor with the cup cut that short, so an argon dam is used when it's practical.)

Steve S

[MosquitoMoto]

I like all this 'small torch talk!'

Can tell I'm going to love the little 9.

As a newbie, the other thing I understand as a point of difference (jump in and correct me if I'm wrong...) is that here in Australia the standard torch type tends not to be the 'naked' torch I so often see in Jody's videos. The torches I see most often here are 'ergonomic' torches with the switch built into the handle. Much bulkier.

I seldom do in-situ work and thus generally don't use a switch since discovering the revelation that is The Pedal. So when I order my #9, I'll be configuring it as a bare torch, flex head, no switch.


Kym

[rick9345]

If you go with ck style flex head and superflex hose series2 treat your self to series 3 head. Takes more time to go get it then to switch it out and will easily take it to 200 amps for short bursts of welding.
Top is FL with water cooled rated over 250A with 3 head, 2nd air cooled, the heads can rotate 360* and all 3 heads shown interchange.

[GreinTime]

[GreinTime]

Both #8 cups

uploadfromtaptalk1440288605456.jpg (35.25 KiB) Viewed 1416 times

[Braehill]

If you have a stubby gas lens on your #26 torch then you already have the 2 series cups that you'll need for a #9 torch.

If you haven't noticed already, the numbering system for Tig is anything but numerical. I'm sure whoever came up with this system has gotten shocked far too many times.

Len

[MosquitoMoto]

Excellent.

Really appreciate the advice and pics, guys. Love the idea of a 360 swivel head, too.

Kym

[AndersK]

I'm sure whoever came up with this system has gotten shocked far too many times.

Len

No, it was more likely the lawyer or financial director in the company first making them

Here's a shot of a 9 and 26.

IMG_20150823_135.jpg (39.94 KiB) Viewed 1400 times

I usually hang the cable around my neck to unload the wrist and loosen the grip.

[geo]

The CK FL is a nice torch and you can have 2 and 3 series heads assembled for different spots but it has limitation too. The button (tightening screw on head) can be a physical limitation in a tight spot unless you reposition the head often. It also needs to be on the outside of the weld joint or it may melt from radiant heat (done a few).
An example is if you need to do 2 inside 90's right in front of you. One on the right and one on the left. If you don't switch to your left hand or reposition the head or reposition your whole body for the left one it leaves the button on the inside and it doesn't take long for the button to melt if your amping like 3/8ths aluminum.
For this reason I picked up some standard flex head torches in 9, 17 and 26 (for less money than just the FL without the extra heads) and use them more often now. I use the FL torch for bench work or long outside welds because it is easier to set-up for a comfortable prop position and has a nice balance.

Having a relaxed, comfortable torch hand makes things much easier so lighter is better but the heaviest and most resistant thing your torch hand has to deal with is the cables attached to the torch. This is something not mentioned much. Probably because it become habit after a time. But something is for sure when tigging is you need to deal with the cables too.
The newer flexy cables are nice but they also tend to droop more when they get hot. I added support (for the flex cable) off the end of the torch to keep it out of my way (cause I have an aversion to wrapping high frequency and amperage around my arm). For this reason I kinda prefer the old style less flexy cable that came with the standard torches when doing something that requires me to walk around the table a lot and leave the flexy stuff on the FL torch for bench work or inside a cluster of stuff.
A lot of the cables effect depends on how you hold the torch. I like to hold the torch like a pencil (and always do on bench work) but sometimes it is just more comfortable to hold it like a hammer when your walking around something bigger.
The twist and weight in a cable has a lot of effect on the torch. Even a 9 torch can feel cumbersome. A good habit is to unwind this twist often. Sometimes it is even beneficial to add a certain amount of preloaded twist to the cable if you happen to be working in and around a tube or joint and you want to finish in one go. If you sit down at your table and hold the torch lightly in your hand you will soon see the effects of the cable on torch position and balance and find cable positioning may become part of your "set-up".
In my smallish shop (27 x 35), all equipment (except lathe) and tables are movable and "levelable" to position in available space around a project or machine I'm working on. My welders gets positioned according to the cables needs only. Nothing worse than tripping over cables moving from station to station. One of the handiest things I built for myself was a cable "jib boom". It just a 5 footish tri-pod thing with an extendable arm, with a swivel joint the cable hangs from so it's off the ground and the weight is mostly off my hand. Easy to slide it with me and when sitting at the table it can be positioned to take almost all cable effect away.

[MosquitoMoto]

Anders - thanks for the comparison pics.

Those are the same type of (bulky...) 'Euro' style torches seemingly most common in my part of the world, too. I welded tonight using someone else's basic, naked type torch and it felt much better.

Geo, thanks for the tips. Funny you mention the cable support arm/stand thing...I'm currently setting up the same kind of thing using shock cord. Great minds think alike?

Cheers.

Kym

[Rick_H]

I always throw the cable over my shoulder then wrap it around my forearm once...then the weight is off my hand.

[MosquitoMoto]

I always throw the cable over my shoulder then wrap it around my forearm once...then the weight is off my hand.

I've been tryin that but my TIG cable is like an Anaconda!


Kym

[Hollywood1]

9 with the, ultraflex cable
is perfect

[Bperk]

Kym,

Glad to see this one as I'm in the same boat with #26 torch on an Miller Dialarc HF. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even know there were different size torches until I started watching Jody's videos, and reading this site. I couldn't decide if a #9 would be too small or not, but thanks to everyone who has responded I'll be adding one to my set up too. As I've gotten older the big torch and cable seem to be harder to control, especially when in an awkward position.

Barry

[rick9345]

the 9/20 water cooled FL superflex cables handles every thing for my 250 Syncro.. But I don't do repetitive long production welds.
And a 9 FL super flex air/gas cooled for the Everlast

[MosquitoMoto]

Kym,

Glad to see this one as I'm in the same boat with #26 torch on an Miller Dialarc HF. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even know there were different size torches until I started watching Jody's videos, and reading this site. I couldn't decide if a #9 would be too small or not, but thanks to everyone who has responded I'll be adding one to my set up too. As I've gotten older the big torch and cable seem to be harder to control, especially when in an awkward position.

Barry

Barry -

Yeah, I'll be grabbing a #9 torch the moment funds allow. There isn't a single welding job I'm doing right now that calls for anything bigger, and there isn't a single job I'm doing that wouldn't be far easier with a much smaller torch.


Kym

[Harry72]

Kym I've had the same problem(yep I be a noob too) my machine come with a WP18 that was the "Euro" style handle, I was talking to a guy in a specialist welding shop about buying a whole replacement torch and he said you can fit a yanky style straight handle and a micro switch to it keeping the head and cables!
Cost about 30 bucks to make the change well worth it, I had trouble holding the Euro for finer welds(I have the old tennis elbow) as you cant hold it like a pencil because of the non movable switch, your just stuck with a "ham fisted" grip.
By holding the micro switch on with cable ties you can move/rotate the switch around the straight handle easily... great for frame type work

[MosquitoMoto]

Kym I've had the same problem(yep I be a noob too) my machine come with a WP18 that was the "Euro" style handle, I was talking to a guy in a specialist welding shop about buying a whole replacement torch and he said you can fit a yanky style straight handle and a micro switch to it keeping the head and cables!
Cost about 30 bucks to make the change well worth it, I had trouble holding the Euro for finer welds(I have the old tennis elbow) as you cant hold it like a pencil because of the non movable switch, your just stuck with a "ham fisted" grip.
By holding the micro switch on with cable ties you can move/rotate the switch around the straight handle easily... great for frame type work

Good to compare notes, Harry, and nice to know that there is a way to fit up the American style 'naked' torch handle. My problem is both the size of my mega 26 Eurocrap torch as well as the weight of the cables, which would frighten a pro snake wrestler. They weigh a bloody ton!

I've fitted a stubby gas lens kit and a flex head to the 26 for the time being and I manage to just ignore/wrangle the main handle and grip the torch neck like a pencil. I'm developing fingers so strong I could pinch-crack walnuts, I swear. But I am going to persevere for the time being and eventually pick up a size 9 torch complete with lightweight cables. I reckon if I hang in there for awhile and persist with the big 26 while I save for a smaller torch, when I finally upgrade to a little 9 it's gonna feel like an absolute revelation.

Thanks for your thoughts and info!


Kym

[Bill Waters]

Kym - agree with Rick. Though a bit expensive, my favorite setup is: the air cooled CK #9 with a FlexLoc head and Superflex cable and CK gas lens kit with a widemouth Pyrex cup is very hard to beat.

Just my $0.02.

Bill