[dunkster]

So it's been a while since I've used any pure tungsten on AL...I've really liked the much higher amp carrying abilities of the ceriated and 2% lanthanated and the fact that I can usually run a narrower, focused bead given the same amps. BUT, with much disgust with some of my work the past few days, I opted to try out some pure for the hell of it and all I can say is WOW! I can't put my finger on why I liked it, all I know is I'm totally hooked. Much better looking beads. Granted, arc initiation does seem to be a bit rougher, but going to 75% or more pedal at light up helps a lot with that. I'm just a bit stumped here as to why I like the pure better....thinking it might have something to do with the arc stability, maybe, IDK. Just seems so much smoother once I get up and going. Real curious to hear what everyone's thoughts, especially the vets, are out there on this.
And don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, but machine is a synchro 350....transformer base.

[LtBadd]

So it's been a while since I've used any pure tungsten on AL...I've really liked the much higher amp carrying abilities of the ceriated and 2% lanthanated and the fact that I can usually run a narrower, focused bead given the same amps. BUT, with much disgust with some of my work the past few days, I opted to try out some pure for the hell of it and all I can say is WOW! I can't put my finger on why I liked it, all I know is I'm totally hooked. Much better looking beads. Granted, arc initiation does seem to be a bit rougher, but going to 75% or more pedal at light up helps a lot with that. I'm just a bit stumped here as to why I like the pure better....thinking it might have something to do with the arc stability, maybe, IDK. Just seems so much smoother once I get up and going. Real curious to hear what everyone's thoughts, especially the vets, are out there on this.
And don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, but machine is a synchro 350....transformer base.

The pure tung was originally the goto for Al TIG welding until the alloyed options came around. Although for any given tung dia., the pure will NOT carry the amperage the alloyed options will.

Maybe the pure allows the electrons to flow with less resistance? Only a guess I don't really know. And yes your machine being a transformer has something to do with it. Pure tung is not recommended for inverter machines.

This is from a chart that comes with the Dynasty machines, chart shows selection for inverter machines only.

[AFR_Autoworks]

I used to use transformer TIGs and had been told to always run pure tungsten until one day someone told me to try zirconated. If you are running a transformer based machine I would strongly recommend you try it. Works like a charm. I now own an inverter machine and have not really had a ton of AC practice with it yet. I will most likely be switching to a hybrid tungsten as I have been quite happy with how they perform in DC.

[LtBadd]

I used to use transformer TIGs and had been told to always run pure tungsten until one day someone told me to try zirconated. If you are running a transformer based machine I would strongly recommend you try it. Works like a charm. I now own an inverter machine and have not really had a ton of AC practice with it yet. I will most likely be switching to a hybrid tungsten as I have been quite happy with how they perform in DC.

Good point, Zirconium is the tungsten (for AC) for transformer machines, that being said if you're satisfied with the pure then go with what works.

[rick9345]

I have an inverter,Zirconium (largest 3/32) seems too only work at low amperage AC with a lot of EN.

[kiwi2wheels]

So it's been a while since I've used any pure tungsten on AL...I've really liked the much higher amp carrying abilities of the ceriated and 2% lanthanated and the fact that I can usually run a narrower, focused bead given the same amps. BUT, with much disgust with some of my work the past few days, I opted to try out some pure for the hell of it and all I can say is WOW! I can't put my finger on why I liked it, all I know is I'm totally hooked. Much better looking beads. Granted, arc initiation does seem to be a bit rougher, but going to 75% or more pedal at light up helps a lot with that. I'm just a bit stumped here as to why I like the pure better....thinking it might have something to do with the arc stability, maybe, IDK. Just seems so much smoother once I get up and going. Real curious to hear what everyone's thoughts, especially the vets, are out there on this.
And don't know if this has anything to do with it or not, but machine is a synchro 350....transformer base.

If you have a friendly LWS or two, see if they have any old stock brown zirconium ( GTE or Linde/L-Tec ) gathering dust at the back of the shelves.

If all they have is white, save your $$$ unless they donate a stick for you to try.

[dynasty200sd]

CK Worldwide offers tungsten packs of 3 if looking for a few tungstens to try out before committing to a pack of 10.

Also, Diamond Ground Products has a Tungsten Guidebook that has a lot of good information on the subject.

As for CK Worldwide products, two websites i've ordered from have been Mississippi Welders Supply Co. and a website they operate,Weldfabulous.

[ESENTI]

Happy new year 2016 everybody , since there is always room for better , i would like to add this , If you use a bit longer stick out somethign like 6mm or more,
1/16 thoriated tungsten with a nice sharp edge you can get a really nice focus and produce a good aesthetic appearance.

Try it and see , this is something I try lately and I'm pleased still working on it but is works , with the variable of different
ceramic cup sizes and gas flow . The last time I got a better performance work than 3/32 no matter what I have tried with it.
This more obvious when tack welding on details.

[dunkster]

I'm seeing more than 1 reference to the Zirconium. How does it outshine the pure?

And Kiwi, the white vs brown....one of those "they don't make it like they used to" things?

[LtBadd]

I'm seeing more than 1 reference to the Zirconium. How does it outshine the pure?

When welding aluminum with AC, pure tungsten will not carry as much amperage (for any given dia.) as Zirconium will, also if doing code work Zirconium was preferred as it's much less likely to "spit" tungsten into the weld, showing on Xray and ruining a welders day

If you're just welding a project for yourself and have pure tung laying around, it's more then suitable for the job, actually works well under its constraints.

[Otto Nobedder]

I have an inverter,Zirconium (largest 3/32) seems too only work at low amperage AC with a lot of EN.

Everything I've seen says NO to Zirconiated with an inverter. Zirconiated and pure are both "Don't" with inverter technology.

Steve S

[rake]

Since I bought the inverter I pretty much stick to 2% Lanthanated.
A good all around tungsten that performs well in both AC and DC.

[MosquitoMoto]

I have an inverter,Zirconium (largest 3/32) seems too only work at low amperage AC with a lot of EN.

Everything I've seen says NO to Zirconiated with an inverter. Zirconiated and pure are both "Don't" with inverter technology.

Steve S

This is really interesting.

I bought my ACDC Inverter Tig as a package and it was delivered ready to weld, with two types of electrodes - Thoriated and Zirconiated. I didn't know much (still don't...) so I just used Thoriated on DC steel and Zirc'd on AC aluminium.

Using my machine, (Metalmaster 215 Elite) Zirc'd forms and maintains a perfect balled tip on AC aluminium and welds beautifully smooth. I've only taken it up to about 90 amps but it works a treat.

I joined the 2% Lanth revolution shortly after I joined the forum (members here chimed in saying "Dare ye not use Zirc'd on aluminium! That foul material will spit accursed contamination into ye puddle!") and now use it pretty much exclusively, but just as a sanity check recently I lit up on aluminium with a Zirc'd electrode and I wasn't dreaming...it still performs beautifully.

Maybe it's just because I'm in Oz. Most things are upside down here.



Kym

[kiwi2wheels]

I'm seeing more than 1 reference to the Zirconium. How does it outshine the pure?

And Kiwi, the white vs brown....one of those "they don't make it like they used to" things?

No, the brown is still manufactured. My preference for old stock from a US name brand is that it would probably be from an era when tungsten quality was never an issue....

http://www.binzel-abicor.com/uploads/Co ... r_7_14.pdf

http://www.ncpwb.org/technicalresources ... trodes.pdf

My experience with white in Europe is it's garbage, and I'm not the only one. On one job using 5/32 with a 500amp inverter, I had to change from white to pure, which was sort of OK ( only because there was nothing else !) But in all instances these were " No name " brands. Re not using Zr on inverters, I believe it is a quality issue, the white is like bad 2% on AC, multiple, unstable balls at the tip. There is also a large variation in the % of Zr between brands, e.g. CK Worldwide claim their white is 0.8% , while the Diamond Ground brown is 1 %.

[LtBadd]

This is really interesting.

Using my machine, (Metalmaster 215 Elite) Zirc'd forms and maintains a perfect balled tip on AC aluminium and welds beautifully smooth. I've only taken it up to about 90 amps but it works a treat.

Maybe it's just because I'm in Oz. Most things are upside down here.


Kym

Hey Kym, you don't say what dia the Zir tung is, if it's .093" (3/32") then it would hold up well on AC at only 90amps. However under ideal conditions with the advantage of an inverter I'd rather have a pointed tung with a blunt tip then a ball, however (as you know) the ball does work.

[MosquitoMoto]

This is really interesting.

Using my machine, (Metalmaster 215 Elite) Zirc'd forms and maintains a perfect balled tip on AC aluminium and welds beautifully smooth. I've only taken it up to about 90 amps but it works a treat.

Maybe it's just because I'm in Oz. Most things are upside down here.


Kym

Hey Kym, you don't say what dia the Zir tung is, if it's .093" (3/32") then it would hold up well on AC at only 90amps. However under ideal conditions with the advantage of an inverter I'd rather have a pointed tung with a blunt tip then a ball, however (as you know) the ball does work.

Good point Richard, sorry, I should have stated that.

The size I was using was 1.6mm, (I think that's 1/16th) 0.8% Zirc'd, brand name stuff. Works well and achieves a particularly even balled tip.

Like others here I have had bad experiences with 'no name' electrodes though. My first batch of 2% Lanthanated were no name and they quickly found their way into the bin. Never again.


Kym

[LtBadd]

Good point Richard, sorry, I should have stated that.

The size I was using was 1.6mm, (I think that's 1/16th) 0.8% Zirc'd, brand name stuff. Works well and achieves a particularly even balled tip.

Like others here I have had bad experiences with 'no name' electrodes though. My first batch of 2% Lanthanated were no name and they quickly found their way into the bin. Never again.


Kym

Yes it's 1/16" here in the states, curious to know how far you could push this (amperage wise). Have you tried to sharpen this and using your inverter turn up the EN side? I'm guessing it wouldn't hold up as well as lanthanated, but you'd still get the job done.

G'day

[MosquitoMoto]

Good point Richard, sorry, I should have stated that.

The size I was using was 1.6mm, (I think that's 1/16th) 0.8% Zirc'd, brand name stuff. Works well and achieves a particularly even balled tip.

Like others here I have had bad experiences with 'no name' electrodes though. My first batch of 2% Lanthanated were no name and they quickly found their way into the bin. Never again.


Kym

Yes it's 1/16" here in the states, curious to know how far you could push this (amperage wise). Have you tried to sharpen this and using your inverter turn up the EN side? I'm guessing it wouldn't hold up as well as lanthanated, but you'd still get the job done.

G'day

Richard -

I think that I owe it to the members on this forum to set up with a 1/16th Zirc'd electrode on AC, light up on aluminium and push the amps up until something lets go. I love a bit of destructive testing!

Will report back with my findings, and hopefully some accompanying pics.


Kym

[MosquitoMoto]

Well' I'm back with my findings. No photos, sorry, I had to squeeze my welding into a very busy evening.

Like most inverters, adjustments on my machine seem very week calibrated...make small adjustments on the panel and you'll see the difference down at the weld. My Zirconiated experiment was a stark demonstration of this.

1.6mm (1/16th) 0.8% Zirc'd electrode, sharpened to a blunt tip.

At 50 amps, 30% EN, it's beautiful on Aluminium. Up to 60, good, 70, good, wound all the way up to 90 and still welding well, maintaining a neat ball.

But at 93 amps it all goes spectacularly wrong!

In the space of about a second, the ball liquifies, expands and explodes. Repeated this a couple times, same result. 93 is the magic number for my machine. At 90 life is good, at 93 it all falls apart.

Would be interested to hear how other inverters handle this. Mine is a Metalmaster 215 Elite.



Kym

[LtBadd]

1.6mm (1/16th) 0.8% Zirc'd electrode, sharpened to a blunt tip.

At 50 amps, 30% EN, it's beautiful on Aluminium. Up to 60, good, 70, good, wound all the way up to 90 and still welding well, maintaining a neat ball.

But at 93 amps it all goes spectacularly wrong!

In the space of about a second, the ball liquifies, expands and explodes. Repeated this a couple times, same result. 93 is the magic number for my machine. At 90 life is good, at 93 it all falls apart.

Would be interested to hear how other inverters handle this. Mine is a Metalmaster 215 Elite.

Kym

Kym, just curious why only 30% EN? It's the EP side coming back at the tungsten and doing the damage. Miller recommends (with their Dynasty machines) starting at 70% EN

[MosquitoMoto]

Richard -

Sorry, my mistake, it's 30% EP, which on my machine is simply labelled '% cleaning'.

I weld most of my aluminium on 30%, although I can sometimes get away with less. In cases where I need more cleaning action I wind it up to 35 or even 40%, but of course you are right - more EP = more cleaning = a hard life for the electrode.

Bottom line is that at 30% EP and up to 90 amps my Zirconiated electrodes work a treat, but the moment I hit 93 amps it's all over.



Kym

[LtBadd]

Richard -

Sorry, my mistake, it's 30% EP, which on my machine is simply labelled '% cleaning'.

I weld most of my aluminium on 30%, although I can sometimes get away with less. In cases where I need more cleaning action I wind it up to 35 or even 40%, but of course you are right - more EP = more cleaning = a hard life for the electrode.

Bottom line is that at 30% EP and up to 90 amps my Zirconiated electrodes work a treat, but the moment I hit 93 amps it's all over.
Kym

Yep that sounds right. The Zirconium holds up well, that's why it has been used for code welding Aluminum before the inverters came along.
Now we know it's limits