[ajlskater1]

Hey guys. Been a few years since I have been on here but looking for some advice and this is always a good plave to turn to for that. Had to weld up this job yesterday. Tubes are 1.375inch in diameter and .125 wall thickness with a .250 gap in between, base is .080 aluminum. Tubes have to be welded all the way around. What tricks or techniques do you guys use for squaring aluminum and also centering things up on tubing, I work by myself so squaring aluminum is always challenging for me cause I can't just throw a magnet on it of hold it and get a fuse fuse tack. Also how would you guys approach welding this? I welded 1 tube in at a time to have the best access possible. The 4th tube was really hard. Welding most of it with a number 5 standard Collet body, tried a number but got really poor shielding and still didn't fit threw the gap. I ended using a number 7 gas lens and sticking the tungsten way out. Is there a different style torch that may work better? I used a 20 with a button cap on back. Thanks for any advice! I am always looking to learn and improve my skills.

[Sandow]

Well squaring off tubing would seem to be a job for a lathe if you really want it 90 degrees. You can do a pretty good job with a chop saw that has been adjusted square though.

Getting down in there for the last pipe may be the realm of something like this:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/180-amps-ck180.html

You can also build a dam around the edges with foil to try and keep the argon more contained or go to something that allows crazy stick out like:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/large-diameter-kits.html

You can always clamp the pipes down while you tack them. something like this with a backing plate would do the trick:
http://www.amazon.com/Bessey-GSCC2-524- ... ing+clamps

There are all kinds of clamps for fit up and welding of pipes if you look around. Check these out:
http://www.amazon.com/Strong-Tools-PG11 ... B003OU85IW

-Sandow

[ajlskater1]

The tubes are threw tubes, so I was referring to squaring both ways. They had a square cut but that wasn't the issue. I ended up taping 2 squares, 1 on both sides, to each tube with the tube at the 2 inch mark on the squares. The pictures don't show it well but the tubes run threw the base and have notches on the other side with a piece of material welded on with a piece of hardware in it as a mounting hole. I had to index all the notches and hardware a certain way. Was wondering if there was some short of "aluminum magnetic square". I know aluminum isn't magnetic just didn't know what to call it. I tried the jumbo ck cup but the tubes were 2 inches and couldn't get any shielding with that much stick out. Also tried a really lone nose number 4 cup but that wouldn't fit in the gap. That ozmo torch look sweet! Also though about the micro torch. This was just a prototype but I might end up having to do a bunch of these so trying to get it figured out. Thanks for the advice sandow. I might just have to build a argon damn.

[Sandow]

Put another magnet on the inside. Aluminum isn't magnetic which means it isn't a magnetic shield either.

http://www.amazon.com/CMS-Magnetics®-Ne ... um+magnets

Magnets this strong will screw with your arc pretty badly and these will demagnetize of they are heated enough but aught to do the trick.

There are some pencil torches for reaching into holes like:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/200-amps-ckm200.html
Never used one though so I can't speak for how they really do.

If nothing pans out for you, look at the thread on filler for welding tungsten, I mention converting my sand blasting cabinet into a purge chamber. I haven't gotten around to trying it but don't see why it wouldn't work. Cabinet was only $200.

-Sandow

[Sandow]

Two more ideas... one I only suggest cause it would look absurd...

This might get you in there:
http://www.amazon.com/TIG-Welding-Torch ... ng+tig+cup

And for the clown college solution, slide a really long glass tube over this:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/standard-kits.html
You could get about 6" from the torch head and still have a solid grip on the electrode. If, you try this though I'm going to have to insist on pictures

-Sandow

[Sandow]

Looooooong cup

image.jpeg (34.28 KiB) Viewed 1327 times

Looooong cup

image.jpeg (37.35 KiB) Viewed 1327 times

Yeah... I had to try it

Seems to shield just fine though the tungsten is a little off center. I puddled some 304 and it stayed uncolored on top and about a nickel size rainbow on the back. I'll try and get some video later.

-Sandow

[Braehill]

You can use a 1-2-3 block set bolted at a 90* angle and run a nylon wire tie through the holes and around the pipe to hold it square. A small set of machinists v-blocks work well when used the same way. I made a set of X-blocks awhile back out of two pieces of heavy walled 1 1/2" angle welded point on point, makes them heavy enough to hold short pieces of pipe perpendicular to tack. You can tape the V and or X-blocks to the pipe with masking tape and remove it before the heat loosens the glue.

As far as get into tight places where you can't fit, then you need to figure out how to get as close as you can and keep Argon in the area long enough to weld it out. Circle all four pipes around the perimeter with foil and cover over all but the last one leaving yourself a little corner window to weld through. You'll need to introduce the gas to the area sooner by setting up your pre-flow and maybe bumping your pedal a few times before initiating an arc to purge. I would do this while I already had some heat into the part so you don't have to spend too much time in there, get started and get moving.

If you have enough cover gas staying in the area you can have a new tungsten sharpened and sticking out the full length as long as it is contained in the gas flow. Our pipe welders at work do repairs to root passes through the gap on 4" pipe when they can't get to the back side this way. You have to be very careful that you don't arc out to the sides or any surrounding parts though. These pipes are being purged so this keeps the tungsten in the gas the whole time. They usually use 1/8" or larger tungsten to handle the extra heat from lack of cooling with that much stick out. Sounds crazy but it works.

Those are just a few things that have worked for me, I too do most things by myself. "Does not play well with others" is what the first grade teacher wrote.

Or there is that, what Sandow has there. I like it.

Len

[Sandow]

Not exactly easy to control and the post flow needs to be longer than my machine allows but it works ok.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AsO8xD_nD54

Meh

image.jpeg (41.72 KiB) Viewed 1311 times

-Sandow

[ajlskater1]

Two more ideas... one I only suggest cause it would look absurd...

This might get you in there:
http://www.amazon.com/TIG-Welding-Torch ... ng+tig+cup

And for the clown college solution, slide a really long glass tube over this:
http://www.ckworldwide.com/standard-kits.html
You could get about 6" from the torch head and still have a solid grip on the electrode. If, you try this though I'm going to have to insist on pictures

-Sandow

I actually bought a set of these awhile back. I tried them on this but I can never seem to get good shrinking out of them, I was trying a number 4 with a 1/8 inch tungsten that way have been my problem but the number 4 didn't even fit in the gap plus I couldn't get any angle on it. I have used them on stainless before and got decent results, just never had luck on aluminum for some reason.

[ajlskater1]

You can use a 1-2-3 block set bolted at a 90* angle and run a nylon wire tie through the holes and around the pipe to hold it square. A small set of machinists v-blocks work well when used the same way. I made a set of X-blocks awhile back out of two pieces of heavy walled 1 1/2" angle welded point on point, makes them heavy enough to hold short pieces of pipe perpendicular to tack. You can tape the V and or X-blocks to the pipe with masking tape and remove it before the heat loosens the glue.

As far as get into tight places where you can't fit, then you need to figure out how to get as close as you can and keep Argon in the area long enough to weld it out. Circle all four pipes around the perimeter with foil and cover over all but the last one leaving yourself a little corner window to weld through. You'll need to introduce the gas to the area sooner by setting up your pre-flow and maybe bumping your pedal a few times before initiating an arc to purge. I would do this while I already had some heat into the part so you don't have to spend too much time in there, get started and get moving.

If you have enough cover gas staying in the area you can have a new tungsten sharpened and sticking out the full length as long as it is contained in the gas flow. Our pipe welders at work do repairs to root passes through the gap on 4" pipe when they can't get to the back side this way. You have to be very careful that you don't arc out to the sides or any surrounding parts though. These pipes are being purged so this keeps the tungsten in the gas the whole time. They usually use 1/8" or larger tungsten to handle the extra heat from lack of cooling with that much stick out. Sounds crazy but it works.

Those are just a few things that have worked for me, I too do most things by myself. "Does not play well with others" is what the first grade teacher wrote.

Or there is that, what Sandow has there. I like it.

Len

The x block is a awesome idea. I was kinda thinking about that when was doing it. If I make it out of .250 material it should be perfect. I never thought of putting a magnet on the backside like sandow was saying. Mayb make the x block out of steel and put a magenta on the backside. I met with the engineers today. I am really trying to get them to ask the customer if they can open the gap up to.500. Then use a micro torch to do the inside stuff. There could be 100 of these hoping to not have to make a argon damn and run a tungsten way out, I work for a production shop but we also do some light fab work, so sometimes aluminum fab stuff is a challenge for me. Thanks for all the advice guys. You guys have been way more help then the Facebook groups lol. Everyone on there just said the welds on there looked bad and we're underfilled. I don't think most of them realize how hard it is to weld .080 to 125 and not blow a open edge away when it's .200 away. I manually pulsed this with foot pedal to try and keep the heat down. Glad I had a tig finger!