[IanC]

I want to reinforce a weak spot on the frame of my bike, the top shock mount. It's a 2014 KTM 1190 Adventure. Reason being, I've now bent two shock bolts, and they're not easy to remove once bent. KTM have actually reinforced the area on the 2016 models, so I guess I'm not alone.

Any idea what sort of steel alloy a modern frame is made of - should I just use ER702-2, or something more versatile like 309L? I asked KTM, they just told me not to weld their frames under any circumstances!

And given the large amount of electronics on a modern bike, is disconnecting the battery enough? Disconnecting everything electronic would be a big task! And does earthing close to your weld help to prevent damage?

Sorry, a lot of questions!

[dave powelson]

"All-new chrome-moly steel trellis frame weighs just 26.1 pounds and carries the 1,195cc V-twin as a stressed member. "
.....http://ridermagazine.com/2014/04/01/201 ... road-test/

ER 70S2 is fine. 309SS not necessary.
Frame may or may not have been post weld stress relieved, or heat treated.
Some folks do a torch normalize after weld repairs to help spread the HAZ, when dealing with 4130,
which seems to stop cracking at joints on A/C, etc.
IF KTM is adding reinforcement, suggest studying how that's done and copy, or consult with party
familiar with A/C frame repairs.
Depending on specifics of this reinforcement done at the factory, trying to do the same on assembled
frame may tweak the birdcage structure, which is not good.

If you haven't formally asked KTM about your problem, that would be first step.

[MosquitoMoto]

Welcome aboard Ian.

Any chance of you posting a pic or two of the offending area on your KTM?



Kym

[IanC]

Thanks guys. And thanks for doing my research Dave - sorry!! Not very clear with all the wires in the way, but here's my 2014 detail:

2014.jpg (74.99 KiB) Viewed 2134 times

[IanC]

And here's the revised 2016 detail:

2016

2016.jpg (65.14 KiB) Viewed 2134 times

I did officially ask KTM. Here's their B/S reply:

"We do not allow the frames to be welded for any reason as it can affect the structural integrity of the frame any alterations would invalidate any warranty or goodwill and the bike would no longer be as homologated for road use."

Actually I am wondering if there's merit in the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Dave - what do you mean by A/C?

[MosquitoMoto]

I imagine by 'A/C' he means aircraft.

What material/grade are the shock bolts that you are currently using? And is that a PCV lead I see in your pic?

And I have to say that's exactly the type of reply I'd expect from KTM (or indeed any bike manufacturer).

I'd weld it...



Kym

[IanC]

I did wonder 'aircraft'.

I actually fitted some very expensive bolts, but still managed to bend the top one! On a trip last year from the UK to Magadan (Russia's Far East)...

https://www.powercellperformance.com/sh ... m-1190-sr/

When I asked if they'd replace, that's when they told me 'no', and that the new frames were reinforced. The two sides of the frame are not actually connected in that vicinity. When re-fitting the shock, it doesn't take much effort to lever the mounts apart to get the shock in.

[IanC]

And yes that is a PCV lead. To be honest all it did was whack up my fuel consumption, so I reverted to a zero-map, until I next have the tank off, when I'll remove it and eBay I think. Though Dyno-jet UK did offer to dyno/tune it FOC if I took it to them.

[kiwi2wheels]

KTM used 25CrMo4, which is the euro version of 4130, for production frames. As Dave said, run a torch over the area post weld. You'll need to machine a steel or bronze spacer the slightly over width of the shock bearing ( plus .005 " ? ) and to the same diameter of the bucket bushings to hold them square before welding anything. In the 2016 pic it appears they have just put a cap over the two bucket bushes ?

Can you provide better pics of the mount with shock in and out, plus pics of the bent bolt and the shock bearing / bushings ?

One thought, are the hat bushings in the shock's spherical brg steel or alloy ?

[MosquitoMoto]

And yes that is a PCV lead. To be honest all it did was whack up my fuel consumption, so I reverted to a zero-map, until I next have the tank off, when I'll remove it and eBay I think. Though Dyno-jet UK did offer to dyno/tune it FOC if I took it to them.

Off topic for a sec...did you use a downloaded map or did you dyno the bike with the PCV? In my experience the downloaded maps are seldom a great solution. Some dyno time and informed tweaking of the fuelling can be very rewarding.



Kym

[IanC]

It was a downloaded map. Dynojet UK offered to tune it on my bike, for free, after I expressed my disappointment. Basically it had no real benefit, but did increase my fuel consumption by 20% or so.

I may still take up their offer, but they're 4-5 hours of motorway away.

kiwi2wheels, I will hopefully remove the shock tomorrow evening and post some photos. I had already realised I needed to get a slightly oversized bush in place to keep everything good. I'm pretty sure the top-hat bushes are steel. Is it normal practice that the frame bushes (to which I'm welding) are 4130, given that they're quite substantial? Or maybe just mild steel, with the frame tubing being 4130?

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[dave powelson]

kiwi2wheels, I will hopefully remove the shock tomorrow evening and post some photos. I had already realised I needed to get a slightly oversized bush in place to keep everything good. I'm pretty sure the top-hat bushes are steel. Is it normal practice that the frame bushes (to which I'm welding) are 4130, given that they're quite substantial? Or maybe just mild steel, with the frame tubing being 4130?

More than likely frame bushes will be mild steel-for costs and ease of fab/press forming
Can check relative hardness with draw file on a bushing, comparing how it cuts to known mild steel.
The bushing, especially close to a weld zone will be harder if it's 4130.

The reinforcement design and execution of it has much more to do with the end result, than the material parent strength, more likely than not.

Another big thing that bike owners don't fathom---is that the frames are considered by the factory to be disposable, wear use items, designed and built to a very finely tuned price point....even KTM which tends or ustah be a few notches higher than competing bike frames.

[EtronX]

I did wonder 'aircraft'.

I actually fitted some very expensive bolts, but still managed to bend the top one! On a trip last year from the UK to Magadan (Russia's Far East)...

https://www.powercellperformance.com/sh ... m-1190-sr/

When I asked if they'd replace, that's when they told me 'no', and that the new frames were reinforced. The two sides of the frame are not actually connected in that vicinity. When re-fitting the shock, it doesn't take much effort to lever the mounts apart to get the shock in.

Greetings IanC.

What route did you take to Magadan?

Best regards from a fellow Bonesman


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[EtronX]

I did wonder 'aircraft'.

I actually fitted some very expensive bolts, but still managed to bend the top one! On a trip last year from the UK to Magadan.

Greetings IanC.

What route did you take to Magadan?

Best regards from a fellow Bonesman.


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[IanC]

Greetings IanC.

What route did you take to Magadan?

Best regards from a fellow Bonesman.

Hello EtronX, fellow Bonesman! Here's the map:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=16hYhb ... sp=sharing

[EtronX]

Nice. We came through Polen, Ukraine (Chernobyl) into Russia. Then from Irkutsk we followed the same route.

[IanC]

Nice. We came through Polen, Ukraine (Chernobyl) into Russia. Then from Irkutsk we followed the same route.

BAM and OSR? I actually hadn't planned on either beforehand, but was talked into the BAM by a Danish guy I met in UB. After that, the OSR seemed like a good idea

Next time I head that way, I'd like to see Chernobyl. Two regrets also were not doing Iran and also the Pamir. As they say, you've got to leave something for another trip!

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[IanC]

Nice. We came through Polen, Ukraine (Chernobyl) into Russia. Then from Irkutsk we followed the same route.

BAM and OSR? I actually hadn't planned on either beforehand, but was talked into the BAM by a Danish guy I met in UB. After that, the OSR seemed like a good idea

Next time I head that way, I'd like to see Chernobyl. Two regrets also were not doing Iran and also the Pamir. As they say, you've got to leave something for another trip!

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[EtronX]

I totally agree on the Iran/Pamir. It's on my bucket list. We did Western BAM and the OSR. This was in 2012. We met up with Terry Brown and Walter Colebatch in Irkutsk and rode with them to Yakutsk. There they headed home and we continued on to Magadan. Our part of the story is on Walters thread on advrider.

[IanC]

I totally agree on the Iran/Pamir. It's on my bucket list. We did Western BAM and the OSR. This was in 2012. We met up with Terry Brown and Walter Colebatch in Irkutsk and rode with them to Yakutsk. There they headed home and we continued on to Magadan. Our part of the story is on Walters thread on advrider.

Sorry EtronX, just noticed I forgot to reply!

I did meet Walter some years ago at a BBQ of Austin Vince's (welcoming home the Pyle brothers from China), and never actually met Terry (though I feel I know them both reasonably well) we've vowed to meet up some day. Was in frequent touch with them both when I was on the road, in fact it was Terry who said 'go for it' when I was procrastinating about doing the BAM. Legends both!

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[IanC]

I totally agree on the Iran/Pamir. It's on my bucket list. We did Western BAM and the OSR. This was in 2012. We met up with Terry Brown and Walter Colebatch in Irkutsk and rode with them to Yakutsk. There they headed home and we continued on to Magadan. Our part of the story is on Walters thread on advrider.

Sorry EtronX, just noticed I forgot to reply!

I did meet Walter some years ago at a BBQ of Austin Vince's (welcoming home the Pyle brothers from China), and never actually met Terry (though I feel I know them both reasonably well) we've vowed to meet up some day. Was in frequent touch with them both when I was on the road, in fact it was Terry who said 'go for it' when I was procrastinating about doing the BAM. Legends both!

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