[CaseyCat89]

I was working on flat T joints in school about a month ago, then worked on some vertical up and now I'm working on flat again. Last time I welded this joint the welds looked great (last pic attached). Now all I get is frosty, dull grey welds with the same settings on the same material.

180 amps (to get it going, then ease off to about 160)
1/8" 6061
1/8" 2% Lanth
3/32 4043 filler
#7 gas lens
15 cfh 100% argon
AC balance at 70 (Syncrowave)

For the last week I have been getting welds that look like this, with only a tiny shiny spot at the end. It seems no matter how hot I get the bead it still looks too cold or it will just melt the base of the aluminum too much. I clean the aluminum with a stainless steel brush. I've turned the gas up and down, increased and decreased amperage, more stickout, faster travel time, slower travel time, ECT. I can't replicate my joints from a month ago. I've asked my instructors, one said the gas could be burning off so I turned it down but I still get the same result. Some advice or tips would be great appreciated.

[5th Street Fab]

I was working on flat T joints in school about a month ago, then worked on some vertical up and now I'm working on flat again. Last time I welded this joint the welds looked great (last pic attached). Now all I get is frosty, dull grey welds with the same settings on the same material.

180 amps (to get it going, then ease off to about 160)
1/8" 6061
1/8" 2% Lanth
3/32 4043 filler
#7 gas lens
15 cfh 100% argon
AC balance at 70 (Syncrowave)

For the last week I have been getting welds that look like this, with only a tiny shiny spot at the end. It seems no matter how hot I get the bead it still looks too cold or it will just melt the base of the aluminum too much. I clean the aluminum with a stainless steel brush. I've turned the gas up and down, increased and decreased amperage, more stickout, faster travel time, slower travel time, ECT. I can't replicate my joints from a month ago. I've asked my instructors, one said the gas could be burning off so I turned it down but I still get the same result. Some advice or tips would be great appreciated.

It looks to me like your putting too much heat into it and it's graying out that's why your ripples aren't as defined. You might be camping out to long I like to keep the amps up high like 250 and just pedal it til it puddles and flows smooth and then run with it. Otherwise your torch angle could be bad. Lean it back a little and see.

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[LtBadd]

Are you using the same base material and filler alloy?

[exnailpounder]

Try bumping your balance up more on the penetration side. Cleaning band is way too wide. It was much more narrow and even on your good weld with the nice shiny bead. I had a Syncrowave 200 a few years ago and I don't really remember what the recommended balance setting was,(maybe 75?) but I always ran a few numbers into the penetration side and my welds always came out shiny. Some guys say Alcotec filler will cause this too. It also looks like your arc was wandering based on looking at your cleaning bands. Tight arc, steep torch angle.

[RamboBaby]

140 amps is enough to get the job done on 1/8" aluminum.
My guess is that you were using 6061 filler on the good weld and now you have switched to 4043 filler. 4043 doesn't flow as evenly as does 6061. You were also moving and pausing when you were making the good welds. Now you're moving the torch without stopping and dipping faster. Try moving 1/8" pause to dab, move pause to dab, etc. It mames your beads consistent. 160 amps requires much faster movement than does 135 to 140 amps. You're not leaving yourself time to watch the toes of the weld tie into the base metal. I did the same thing today halfway through a v grove joint on 3/8" steel plate when I started getting too far out of position. I forgot to watch the toes because my hands were getting really uncomfortable.
Turn your heat down, slow down, and focus on the front of the puddle to make sure you're vetting into the root of the joint, then sweep your eyes to the toes of the weld before advancing any further. This often requires pulsing with the pedal and it is well worth it if appearances are important.

[CaseyCat89]

Are you using the same base material and filler alloy?

Its 6061 aluminum and 4043 filler

140 amps is enough to get the job done on 1/8" aluminum.
My guess is that you were using 6061 filler on the good weld and now you have switched to 4043 filler. 4043 doesn't flow as evenly as does 6061. You were also moving and pausing when you were making the good welds. Now you're moving the torch without stopping and dipping faster. Try moving 1/8" pause to dab, move pause to dab, etc. It mames your beads consistent. 160 amps requires much faster movement than does 135 to 140 amps. You're not leaving yourself time to watch the toes of the weld tie into the base metal. I did the same thing today halfway through a v grove joint on 3/8" steel plate when I started getting too far out of position. I forgot to watch the toes because my hands were getting really uncomfortable.
Turn your heat down, slow down, and focus on the front of the puddle to make sure you're vetting into the root of the joint, then sweep your eyes to the toes of the weld before advancing any further. This often requires pulsing with the pedal and it is well worth it if appearances are important.

Thanks, I will try that on Monday. It felt like I was moving too slow if the aluminum was overheating but moving faster didn't seem to fix the problem. It's so frustrating because I was just doing well at this just a few weeks ago.

Try bumping your balance up more on the penetration side. Cleaning band is way too wide. It was much more narrow and even on your good weld with the nice shiny bead. I had a Syncrowave 200 a few years ago and I don't really remember what the recommended balance setting was,(maybe 75?) but I always ran a few numbers into the penetration side and my welds always came out shiny. Some guys say Alcotec filler will cause this too. It also looks like your arc was wandering based on looking at your cleaning bands. Tight arc, steep torch angle.

Do you think I need to angle the torch towards the leading edge of the puddle? I was trying to keep the angle minimal, trying to get it close to Jody's angle in the tee joint video.

[Rupes]

Usually when I get dull welds on ally its because of arc gap. Doesnt really happen anymore on butts, fillets, outside corners etc. If it looks a bit dull and the ripples are a bit here and there on inside corners I usually find I haven't extended the tungsten to allow it to get in close.

Try it out on a bit of plate, play with the arc gap and compare the difference in the finished weld, quite surprising the difference 2-3mm can make. Probably the best lesson I got from Jody was that video with the 3 common mistakes with tig. Angle doesn't seem as important unless its so much that you're balling up the filler rod.

[Rupes]

Also looks like the good weld is concave and probably with good penetration into the root, whilst the others looks a bit overfilled again probably because the longer arc gap means you have to sweep wider from toe to toe and fill more as the tungsten isn't getting right into that root.

[zank]

Did you change argon cylinders?

[CaseyCat89]

Did you change argon cylinders?

Yeah, I used a different machine with a different tank of argon with the same result. The funny thing is, my instructor welded the other day on the same joint to look at my issue, and while his bead was laid in the joint correctly, it was also excessively grey and kinda hard to get the puddle to flow, and he was kinda stumped.

So one idea I'm going to try tomorrow is using a different filler from a different manufacturer because the last time I was welding without any issues I was using 4043 made by a different company. the school recently switched to a different company and it is cheaper. Could a poor quality filler be the issue also?

[Otto Nobedder]

Did you change argon cylinders?

Yeah, I used a different machine with a different tank of argon with the same result. The funny thing is, my instructor welded the other day on the same joint to look at my issue, and while his bead was laid in the joint correctly, it was also excessively grey and kinda hard to get the puddle to flow, and he was kinda stumped.

So one idea I'm going to try tomorrow is using a different filler from a different manufacturer because the last time I was welding without any issues I was using 4043 made by a different company. the school recently switched to a different company and it is cheaper. Could a poor quality filler be the issue also?

It's entirely possible to get "moist" gas. If this is the case, the problem will grow worse as the bottle pressure drops.
The bottle filler is supposed to pull a vacuum on each bottle to draw out moisture. It's common for this step to be skipped for the sake of production. In theory, this shouldn't be a problem. In practice, completely empty bottles sit outside with the valve open because people are lazy and don't know better. A week like this waiting for pick-up, with temperature swings of 20+ degrees between night and day, and the bottles "breath", picking up atmosphere (N2, O2, CO2, and H20). If they aren't evacuated before filled, you get shitty gas in that bottle.

Most reputable welding supply services will analyze your bottle(s) if you complain. Several bottles the same way are quite possible, because the company that didn't care or know may have turned in several bottles left open, which get filled at the same time, and possibly shipped out together.

Steve S

[CaseyCat89]

Did you change argon cylinders?

Yeah, I used a different machine with a different tank of argon with the same result. The funny thing is, my instructor welded the other day on the same joint to look at my issue, and while his bead was laid in the joint correctly, it was also excessively grey and kinda hard to get the puddle to flow, and he was kinda stumped.

So one idea I'm going to try tomorrow is using a different filler from a different manufacturer because the last time I was welding without any issues I was using 4043 made by a different company. the school recently switched to a different company and it is cheaper. Could a poor quality filler be the issue also?

It's entirely possible to get "moist" gas. If this is the case, the problem will grow worse as the bottle pressure drops.
The bottle filler is supposed to pull a vacuum on each bottle to draw out moisture. It's common for this step to be skipped for the sake of production. In theory, this shouldn't be a problem. In practice, completely empty bottles sit outside with the valve open because people are lazy and don't know better. A week like this waiting for pick-up, with temperature swings of 20+ degrees between night and day, and the bottles "breath", picking up atmosphere (N2, O2, CO2, and H20). If they aren't evacuated before filled, you get shitty gas in that bottle.

Most reputable welding supply services will analyze your bottle(s) if you complain. Several bottles the same way are quite possible, because the company that didn't care or know may have turned in several bottles left open, which get filled at the same time, and possibly shipped out together.

Steve S

Thanks Steve, I could see this being a problem too. The tank of gas hadn't given me any problems at the start but it should be running low now (the tank reg doesn't work...surprise) and I'm not sure how much is left in the tank. Thanks for your post!

[CaseyCat89]

So, I still didn't figure out the problem completely, but I believe it's filler and/or gas related. I bought new filler from a more reputable place, cleaned the aluminum with aluminum cleaner for welding and a new stainless brush, cleaned the filler, and the 4043 still turned out looking just as bad. The rod stuck to the aluminum multiple times and the puddle was hard to control. It favored the bottom plate, and the tungsten started to turn slightly gray/white like there was a little aluminum on it or something. I could see the Sandy appearance on the bead also. When I welded with 5356 however, using the same prep, it turned out fine, albiet wobbly, and the tungsten stayed cleaner.

5356 on the left, 4043 on the right. The 4043 I had to stop and start a couple times due to the bead not running right

[Farmwelding]

All the aluminum I've welded is 6061 with 4043 filler and never a problem. That is interesting. If it is sticking to the plate like you are saying you have to keep the rod off the plate. I do it a lot when running aluminum get lazy rest it on the plate and then it won't move and then got to stop or run ahead real quick to quick melt it.

[CaseyCat89]

All the aluminum I've welded is 6061 with 4043 filler and never a problem. That is interesting. If it is sticking to the plate like you are saying you have to keep the rod off the plate. I do it a lot when running aluminum get lazy rest it on the plate and then it won't move and then got to stop or run ahead real quick to quick melt it.

Yeah i will say my shaky hands today don't help much. The real issue seemed to be every time I touched the filler to the puddle edge it would want to stick. I'll talk to my instructor again about this now that I can compare a different filler.

It's weird to me too because I was just using 4043 to weld all my joints as of 4 weeks ago. This started happening recently.

[cj737]

4043 turns pretty "rainy" due to the accumulated heat. 5356 not so. Stays shinier.

I never rest my filler wire on the metal with aluminum because the metal gets too dang hot and your wire will stick. Gravity and arc angle will cause your aluminum puddle to favor the lower side. Add your filler to the high side, and keep your arc pointed at the joint. That way you will get enough filler above the seam.

[exnailpounder]

Turn up your balance more into the penetration side. Takes out all the grainy appearance and you will have nice shiny beads. Your machine has a recommended balance setting, go a couple numbers into pen side...just a little bit...it does wonders.