[Blaze659]

A fire department would like me to weld two manganese hooks on the ends of an aluminum rod. Is it possible to tig weld those metals together? If so what filler rod would need to be used? Also these are cast pieces. Thanks for any info!

[cj737]

Do a little research here:
http://www.welding-advisers.com/Welding-magnesium.html

[Erich]

Manganese or Magnesium? They are different.

[Blaze659]

Manganese. I found using s.s rod would be the best. 309?

[LtBadd]

Manganese. I found using s.s rod would be the best. 309?

stainless will not TIG weld to aluminum

[Farmwelding]

Depending on the thicknesses of these part it would be tricky even if you found a good filler. Manganese melts at 2275 degrees and aluminum melts around 1220 degrees. Unless you had 1/2" aluminum and like 1/4" manganese it would be a lot of tricky welding to melt them and weld them.

[Blaze659]

My bad. I meant ss to weld it to steel. I haven't found anything to weld manganese to aluminum. Still hoping someone can let me know some good info about aluminum and manganese. I think I'm out of luck with using aluminum. The guys that weld manganese to digging buckets stated ss but I didn't see a type.

[electrode]

Found this on the internet:

Manganese Steel
Manganese steel is sometimes called austenitic manganese steel because of its metallurgical structure. It is also called Hadfield manganese steel after its inventor. It is an extremely tough, nonmagnetic alloy. It has an extremely high tensile strength, a high percentage of ductility, and excellent wear resistance. It also has a high resistance to impact and is practically impossible to machine.

Hadfield manganese steel is probably more widely used as castings but is also available as rolled shapes. Manganese steel is popular for impact wear resistance. It is used for railroad frogs, for steel mill coupling housings, pinions, spindles, and for dipper lips of power shovels operating in quarries. It is also used for power shovel track pads, drive tumblers, and dipper racks and pinions.

The composition of austenitic manganese is from 12-14% manganese and 1-1.4% carbon. The composition of cast manganese steel would be 12% manganese and 1.2% carbon. Nickel is oftentimes added to the composition of the rolled manganese steel.

A special heat treatment is required to provide the superior properties of manganese steel. This involves heating to 1850°F (1008°C) followed by quenching in water. In view of this type of heat treatment and the material toughness, special attention must be given to welding and to any reheating of manganese steel.

Manganese steel can be welded to itself and defects can be weld repaired in manganese castings. Manganese steel can also be welded to carbon and alloy steels and weld surfacing deposits can be made on manganese steels.

Manganese steel can be prepared for welding by flame cutting; however, every effort should be made to keep the base metal as cool as possible. If the mass of the part to be cut is sufficiently large it is doubtful if much heat will build up in the part sufficient to cause embrittlement. However, if the part is small it is recommended that it be frequently cooled in water or, if possible, partially submerged in water during the flame cutting operation. For removal of cracks the air carbon arc process can be used. The base metal must be kept cool. Cracks should be completely removed to sound metal prior to rewelding. Grinding can be employed to smooth up these surfaces.

There are two types of manganese steel electrodes available. Both are similar in analysis to the base metal but with the addition of elements which maintain the toughness of the weld deposit without quenching. The EFeMn-A electrode is known as the nickel manganese electrode and contains from 3-5% nickel in addition to the 12-14% manganese. The carbon is lower than normal manganese ranging from 0.50 to 0.90%. The weld deposits of this electrode on large manganese castings will result in a tough deposit due to the rapid cooling of the weld metal.

The other electrode used is a molybdenum-manganese steel type EFeMn-B. This electrode contains 0.6-1.4% molybdenum instead of the nickel. This electrode is less often used for repair welding of manganese steel or for joining manganese steel itself or to carbon steel. The manganese nickel steel is more often used as a buildup deposit to maintain the characteristics of manganese steel when surfacing is required.

Stainless steel electrodes can also be used for welding manganese steels and for welding them to carbon and low-alloy steels. The 18-8 chrome-nickel types are popular; however, in some cases when welding to alloy steels the 29-9 nickel is sometimes used. These electrodes are considerably more expensive than the manganese steel electrode and for this reason are not popular.

Found this:

304/308, 316 and 321/347 are all 18/8 Cr-Ni alloys

And this may also help:
http://www.hobartbrothers.com/downloads ... __GUoa.pdf

[Blaze659]

Thank you!

[electrode]

You are welcome. Let us know what you end up doing and some pics too.

[Bill Beauregard]

I weld manganese steel to AR Bucket steel regularly. Never done it to stainless. If it's aluminum rod you are talking about, thread it, or drill and rivet it.

I've seen old buckets repaired with stainless. It is very ductile, so cooling contraction won't break something.

If stainless, I might use any of the higher 309, 312 fillers.

[electrode]

I weld manganese steel to AR Bucket steel regularly. Never done it to stainless. If it's aluminum rod you are talking about, thread it, or drill and rivet it.

I've seen old buckets repaired with stainless. It is very ductile, so cooling contraction won't break something.

If stainless, I might use any of the higher 309, 312 fillers.

I was going to suggest 312 (as it is the maintenance rod) but figured I would go with the facts online so I could blame the reference material.

[GreinTime]

Manganese. I found using s.s rod would be the best. 309?

stainless will not TIG weld to aluminum

Actually that's not true [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY] we regularly do it at work to listen to the noises it makes as it cools when we're bored!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[Otto Nobedder]

Manganese. I found using s.s rod would be the best. 309?

stainless will not TIG weld to aluminum

Actually that's not true [FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY] we regularly do it at work to listen to the noises it makes as it cools when we're bored!

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

I accidentally tacked a few pieces of 5053 with a li'l stub of 309 rod. It held long enough to get the right rod and tack it again.

Stainless can be welded to aluminum, but the process is a blast. Literally. Explosion welding. I welded a bunch of transition couplers (socket weld, 304N on one end, and 6061-T6 on the other) on a cold-box, and each one of these expensive little bastards came with an adhesive backed permanent-mark temperature scale on it, so you knew if you'd overheated it.

Steve S

[LtBadd]

stainless will not TIG weld to aluminum

I accidentally tacked a few pieces of 5053 with a li'l stub of 309 rod. It held long enough to get the right rod and tack it again.

Stainless can be welded to aluminum, but the process is a blast. Literally. Explosion welding. I welded a bunch of transition couplers (socket weld, 304N on one end, and 6061-T6 on the other) on a cold-box, and each one of these expensive little bastards came with an adhesive backed permanent-mark temperature scale on it, so you knew if you'd overheated it.

Steve S

And that is my point, it doesn't TIG weld, yea I know someone who picked up a sst wire and shoved it into an aluminum weld, (wasn't me).

However I did shove Inconel 82 into a titanium coupon just to see what would happen so I've been there too I posted a pic of that recently

[Bill Beauregard]

Manganese is hard stuff. it work hardens. The more it is abused as in a rock crusher, the harder it gets. I see it most in grouser stock. Grouser stock is used to replace worn grousers on bulldozer shoes, as wear edges on earth moving buckets. I don't wear loader buckets quite as fast as they might in a rock quarry. I cut the cutting edge of a loader bucket in a straight line and weld on a piece of 1.5" grouser stock as a fresh cutting edge.

I recommend 7018, or Dualshield. Stainless is a great choice, but expensive. The one on my loader now broke in two places welding it on. I suggest 8' pieces be cut in three pieces before welding. A high preheat on the bucket floor would certainly help.

Willie