[WildWestWelder]

The title says it. Why can't you just have an 1/8" tungsten and do just about every job from thin to thick? Why does using a1/16" tungsten on thin material at low amperage any different than a larger one?

[AndersK]

You can use a big one to everything but a smaller tungsten gives a more stable arc at low amps. In my opinion it makes a better start with a small one too.
Will be at most difference on sheet metal 1 mm and below, that's when I bring out the ,040 tungsten.

[exnailpounder]

The title says it. Why can't you just have an 1/8" tungsten and do just about every job from thin to thick? Why does using a1/16" tungsten on thin material at low amperage any different than a larger one?

I use 3/32" for most everything but have other sizes in my hoard box. Most machines have a setting for what size tungsten you are using to help with the HF start. My machine won't start an arc below 10 amps with a 3/32" tungsten but it will start an arc at 4 amps with a 1/16". For most home welders, 3/32" will handle most everything. 1/8" is a tree trunk for anything under 250 amps.

[Farmwelding]

Yeah lighting up on an aluminum can or razor blade with 3/32" tungsten. Not a fun time especially on some machines who don't light up at low amps well. If you are welding at like 350 amps all day on aluminum then you're gonna want bigger. But like the above said- 3/32" is the best all around option for most people.

[mpete53]

on thin material (.025 to .040) I love my .040 tungsten. starts are so much crisper and the arc is much more stable. try one and the difference will be obvious.

I use mostly .04 and 1/6 since I do mostly thin material and they work better for me than 3/32 for me and a added benefit, they are much easier to sharpen

Mark

[maker of things]

If you are doing it for a hobby I think you effectively can, but it doesn't sound like as much fun.

[AKmud]

I've tried sharpening a 1/8" tungsten with a long taper to a very sharp point thinking it would work...for some reason it still doesn't. 3/32" seems to do most of what I ask. I will go to 1/16" for thin stainless though. I haven't come across anything I've needed .040" for.

[Reseda luteola]

Electrons jump to and from things a LOT better when the things are hot. It takes a lot more to heat up a big chunk of tungsten than a little one. So it takes longer to heat up to useful temp (hence starts being an issue), and may battle to get there if the heat sink effect is large enough (a minute point still has a lot of matter behind it).
Now, these effects may not make it impossible to use a thicker tungsten for everything. Just not ideal. But that's a lot of the 'why'.
I've always wondered though.... If you took it further and ground a good portion of the tungsten end (like 1/2 inch) down to a reduced diameter with an appropriate tip shape, then surely it'll be a lot like a thinner tungsten. Ie be able to heat up well. Obviously would be quicker to swap out sizes. Not suggesting one do this. But an interesting experiment?
Thicker conductors carry current a lot better than thinner ones (counterintuitively less resistance the more material there is to travel down). So theoretically a thicker tungsten will have reduced losses, heat up less due to resistance, and be a better idea than a thinner one all the way until the tip, where it needs to be hot. Insignificant differences, but technically...

[Otto Nobedder]

I have used 1/8" tungsten for everything, with success. The trick is a two-stage taper with a polish. I've done a very long taper (belt sander works better than a bench grinder, to avoid concavity), buffed smooth, then did a traditional taper on the point.

These days, I use 3/32 for damn near everything but aluminum, and will use a similar process for very thin sections. I rarely have to do this with 3/32, though.

Steve S

[Farmwelding]

Maybe this analogy would be better than the last one I used

Would you use .045 wire if you did a bunch of sheet metal and would you use .020 if you were doing some 1/4" plate. Probably not. Now if you were in a pinch-it could work. Same with tungsten you don't want to use 1/8" if your tigging sheet metal a lot nor do you want to use .040" on 1/4" steel. Doable if you are in a pinch, but not with the best results always.

Steve-you use 1/8" on aluminum then or what? Just curiosity.

[Otto Nobedder]

...Steve-you use 1/8" on aluminum then or what? Just curiosity.

Depends on thickness. I use transformer machines, so it's pure tungsten. For 11 Ga. and smaller, I'm happy with a 3/32. I will even do a 1/4" with 3/32 if it's not a long run and I can pre-heat and/or add helium. Heavy sections, it's 1/8" tungsten every time.

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

Maybe this analogy would be better than the last one I used

Would you use .045 wire if you did a bunch of sheet metal and would you use .020 if you were doing some 1/4" plate. Probably not. Now if you were in a pinch-it could work. Same with tungsten you don't want to use 1/8" if your tigging sheet metal a lot nor do you want to use .040" on 1/4" steel. Doable if you are in a pinch, but not with the best results always.

Not sure why you like analogies - just speak plain. Less reading.

And you are incorrect about using .040" on heavy welds.
I've forgotten to change my 1/16" tungsten out and blown the end off at 250 amps before.

The amp chart for sizes and types of tungsten is a very good guide.

[Farmwelding]

Maybe this analogy would be better than the last one I used

Would you use .045 wire if you did a bunch of sheet metal and would you use .020 if you were doing some 1/4" plate. Probably not. Now if you were in a pinch-it could work. Same with tungsten you don't want to use 1/8" if your tigging sheet metal a lot nor do you want to use .040" on 1/4" steel. Doable if you are in a pinch, but not with the best results always.

Not sure why you like analogies - just speak plain. Less reading.

And you are incorrect about using .040" on heavy welds.
I've forgotten to change my 1/16" tungsten out and blown the end off at 250 amps before.

The amp chart for sizes and types of tungsten is a very good guide.

When this goes-is it more of a slow gradual disappearance or is it a sudden flash and then gone.

[MinnesotaDave]

Not sure why you like analogies - just speak plain. Less reading.

And you are incorrect about using .040" on heavy welds.
I've forgotten to change my 1/16" tungsten out and blown the end off at 250 amps before.

The amp chart for sizes and types of tungsten is a very good guide.

When this goes-is it more of a slow gradual disappearance or is it a sudden flash and then gone.

Depends what I've done wrong.

In one instance I was on the edge of amp rating for 3/32" tungsten on aluminum.
End was quivering and looked like it would make it - I was wrong.
Sprayed out like it was consumable.

In another I had the 1/16" tungsten in, put the hammer down at 250 amps - bam...gone....

[Olivero]

I use 3/32" for everything and I do a bit of commercial stuff, fabrication & repair. Never bothered needing different sized electrodes and then collets as well.

[MinnesotaDave]

I use 3/32" for everything and I do a bit of commercial stuff, fabrication & repair. Never bothered needing different sized electrodes and then collets as well.

Is that on the dynasty 200? I'd bet it would never need a 1/8" tungsten with all of its adjustments

On my old Airco 300 with 50/50 balance only - it eats a 3/32" tungsten pretty easy.
It'll put a hurt on 1/8" pure as well.

The Syncrowave 350 I picked up is much nicer to tungsten with its adjustable balance.

[chillrich1]

I have tried to grind an extreme taper on 3/32 for low amp use with minimal success. We were taught in school that electrons travel on the surface of a conductor, (with a limited search Google now informs me that this is more true for AC than DC). Perhaps this would explain the reason correct tungsten size is important for critical applications? Too much surface area on a large tungsten makes electron transfer too easy?

I like the theory of Reseda luteola, we are looking for electron transfer and this happens when cathode/anode are hot like in electron tubes. These only work when they have reached a certain temperature, at that point the electrons will "boil" off of the anode and travel toward cathode.

[WildWestWelder]

Lots of good replies! Thanks!!

[Olivero]

I use 3/32" for everything and I do a bit of commercial stuff, fabrication & repair. Never bothered needing different sized electrodes and then collets as well.

Is that on the dynasty 200? I'd bet it would never need a 1/8" tungsten with all of its adjustments

On my old Airco 300 with 50/50 balance only - it eats a 3/32" tungsten pretty easy.
It'll put a hurt on 1/8" pure as well.

The Syncrowave 350 I picked up is much nicer to tungsten with its adjustable balance.

Yessir, Dynasty 200 all the way.

Its so confusing with all that stuff, used to teach the guys coming to learn "This is the amps, this is the AC and DC, you use this for that and this one for everything else.... DONT touch anything else... I have no idea what it does "

[Farmwelding]

And then you open the owners manual and they have a page just for polarities and use words only an electrical engineer with a PHD would understand so you use it as kindling say screw it and play around and get some good hood time.

[Arclight Ironworks]

99% of the time, we run 1/8” Tungsten on ferrous and non-ferrous materials ranging in thickness from 24ga (.025”) to 1/4”+. BLUE Tungsten for all Ally work, and RED Tungsten for all other materials. Inverter machines. The key is end preparation, tip profiling, and operator proficiency. We also micro-ball the tip for Ally work. Yes, even when using inverter power sources.

Watch Aaron @ 6061.com master 1/8” Tunsgten on thin/thin, medium, and thick Aluminum and Stainless.

#WorkFunction
#eV

[MinnesotaDave]

Here's some aluminum foil I welded at 10 amps DC- with a 3/32" tungsten

No light shined through when I checked, but it did have a tiny pinhole when I water tested it...

At 10 amps, when I first lit the tungsten on scrap the arc was just a buzzing large electrical field all over.
After the arc stabilized it didn't do that again and continued lighting up normally.
I had sharpened it on the belt sander, no polish - that's likely why.

Foil closeup

image.jpeg (38.95 KiB) Viewed 2291 times

Machine

image.jpeg (32.42 KiB) Viewed 2291 times

image.jpeg (46.55 KiB) Viewed 2291 times

[Arclight Ironworks]

@ MinnesotaDave - fusion welding aluminum foil is about about easy as it comes. Amps aren’t key, fixturing/fitup is crucial. Now, if you fused the surfaces via “open root” you’re a king.

Ron C shows his craft on 1thou Ally,

https://youtu.be/0p9s3DxMZ0A

[MinnesotaDave]

@ MinnesotaDave - fusion welding aluminum foil is about about easy as it comes. Amps aren’t key, fixturing/fitup is crucial. Now, if you fused the surfaces via “open root” you’re a king.

Ron C shows his craft on 1thou Ally,

https://youtu.be/0p9s3DxMZ0A

Quite right, it's very easy pics are just a bonus - lol

Mostly I was just noting what happened with the 10 amps on my unpolished 3/32" tungsten.

I used two strips of stainless and sandwiched the foil with a little sticking out.
I went much slower than Ron C. because I wanted to watch the fusion take place.
I found it interesting

[79jasper]

6061 had some recent videos about tungsten size.
Can't say I've seen his videos brought up on here though.

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