[humblest]

of argon75%/helium25%

[cj737]

Yes, and it works just fine, unless there is a specific WPS for your task that has a different specification on gas. I use the same pre-mixed tank for carbon, stainless and aluminum in a smaller travel bottle.

[humblest]

Yes, and it works just fine, unless there is a specific WPS for your task that has a different specification on gas. I use the same pre-mixed tank for carbon, stainless and aluminum in a smaller travel bottle.

Thank you very much for your replying, i had that doubt since all i ear is about the Wye fitting and mixing valve for the mixing process and that involves having two separate cylinders and that got me to think of a pre mix cylinder might be use for something different and not for TIG welding .

[noddybrian]

For most Tig welding you don't need helium - it just adds cost - that's why most guys blend a little if the situation calls for it - ie your past the amp limit / duty cycle of your machine for a given thickness - I use 100% argon 99% of the time due to cost but I will say the puddle is nicer on any gauge aluminum & seems cleaner with some helium mixed - whether it's worth the cost for what your welding I would'nt like to guess.

[humblest]

For most Tig welding you don't need helium - it just adds cost - that's why most guys blend a little if the situation calls for it - ie your past the amp limit / duty cycle of your machine for a given thickness - I use 100% argon 99% of the time due to cost but I will say the puddle is nicer on any gauge aluminum & seems cleaner with some helium mixed - whether it's worth the cost for what your welding I would'nt like to guess.

Thank you for replying, I appreciate every single word that you guys put in here.

[cj737]

I have not found the cost of a pre-mixed bottle to be significant. Especially when you amortize it across the hours of welding. And in some instances, the purchase of %He is far, far cheaper than a TIG box with more amps.

I've toyed with the idea of 2 separate tanks in the shop, a Y fitting, and then on-the-fly mixing. In reality, it doesn't seem as effective to me as a pre-mixed bottle. There is little to no downside that I can tell from using pre-mixed Ar/He on steel, and none that I can detect on the other metals. Sure, the arc is hotter, but that is offset by using less pedal.

I do see benefits of the He mix: less distortion, deeper penetration on thick material, less amps.

So for a few dollars more... I'll stick with the Helium mixture.

[Otto Nobedder]

While cj737 makes several valid points, I would think the price of a helium mix is going to vary by region, meaning how close are you to a major refining/storage/shipping center? In very low demand market areas, it could be quite costly. You'll simply have to price it and see. Price it from every source within reason to your location, too. Sometimes the "mom and pop" shops will stun you with the prices they can give you.

One big plus to a mix bottle is a precise mixture. One big downside is, unless you get more than one bottle you only have one mixture.

It's difficult to get a reasonably accurate mixture using conventional flowmeters. I have several at work marked for helium, and they're designed to be used in the 80-100 CFH range. the "10" on the scale is just floating the ball, and mixed with argon at (a more readable) 10, would give a 20 CFH flow and a 50/50 mix. To get anywhere near a 25% He mix, you've got to set flow so low that the ball "bounces", barely oscillating off the bottom of the gauge, with the argon set at 15.

I'm perfectly willing to go through mixing my own, as I have unlimited access to helium at no cost and only rarely need it for welding. I use large quantities in Helium leak detection, and one of our clients provides it at no charge. At one time, the bean counters wanted us to purchase it, until we explained we'd just mark it up 30% and sell it back to them.

Steve

[Poland308]

Sweet Jesus you found a bean counter that uses logic. God Damn miracle! We charge a university $100 for a $10 parking ticket. But they won't issue a parking pass for us. So they eat the difference because of a bean counter.

[Otto Nobedder]

Sweet Jesus you found a bean counter that uses logic. God Damn miracle! We charge a university $100 for a $10 parking ticket. But they won't issue a parking pass for us. So they eat the difference because of a bean counter.

The client is fortune 500, so I think it's not so much logic, as a bean counter explaining the bottom line to someone up the food chain...

That's not fair. They once shut down their ENTIRE liquid hydrogen fleet when I discovered a way that a major safety component could be mis-assembled (because I found one that was). They sent someone fairly local, and it took four hours for me to make him understand the problem. They then flew in an engineer from corporate headquarters, and I spent two hours making him understand. That resulted in the fleet shutting down. The engineer also respected my recommendation for how to test for this condition on a loaded trailer. In the end, they found one other trailer with the condition, but there are two significant company-wide changes because they listened to the first-line mechanic.

I do like that this client actually puts safety first, rather than giving it lip-service.

Steve

[weldin mike 27]

That may be the only time in the history of hitting things with hammers that an engineer has listened to some one on the tools. The amount they ignore us at my work is ridiculous.

[cj737]

They sent someone fairly local, and it took four hours for me to make him understand the problem. They then flew in an engineer from corporate headquarters, and I spent two hours making him understand.

Yes, well this is living proof that you can explain something to someone, but you can't understand it for them.

That may be the only time in the history of hitting things with hammers that an engineer has listened to some one on the tools. The amount they ignore us at my work is ridiculous.

And this is indicative of those who believe they have all the answers only prove they no longer ask the right questions.

Two social behaviors that have overtaken our world, indicating a reduction in education in exchange for indoctrination to a way of thinking. Kids are no longer taught how to learn, but what to know. They grow up and become the "experts" and "specialists" with zero parallel knowledge or skills. Cross-curriculum knowledge is mandatory to be great in anything, and good in everything. Just can't find it anymore in the school system (K-12, plus University).

Sorry, hijack over-

[weldin mike 27]

i get it. kind of like certs in school. you know a lot but no idea of what to do if....(insert any number of unkowns here)

[Farmwelding]

That may be the only time in the history of hitting things with hammers that an engineer has listened to some one on the tools. The amount they ignore us at my work is ridiculous.

And this is indicative of those who believe they have all the answers only prove they no longer ask the right questions.

Two social behaviors that have overtaken our world, indicating a reduction in education in exchange for indoctrination to a way of thinking. Kids are no longer taught how to learn, but what to know. They grow up and become the "experts" and "specialists" with zero parallel knowledge or skills. Cross-curriculum knowledge is mandatory to be great in anything, and good in everything. Just can't find it anymore in the school system (K-12, plus University).

Sorry, hijack over-

What... No that can't be. You mean that we all have just become really good test takers but don't know anything? No that can't be right.

That's why I chose this life of welding...always learning something and always something to learn-grows the mind a little.

[Otto Nobedder]

I'm blessed to have had the opportunity to earn the respect of a few key people in this client's corporate chain that deal most directly with the maintenance, repair, and safety of the vessels. It's not unusual now to participate in a conference call with the top brass. It doesn't happen often, because it doesn't need to... I document stuff thoroughly. Sometimes, though, as cj737 said, the gap between explaining and understanding can be a chasm.

Steve

[Poland308]

I hear customers say "we should set up a morning breakfast meeting and talk about this more, and bring in some others". I know someone has to do the splaining. But I'm not quite ready for it to be me.

[Otto Nobedder]

I hear customers say "we should set up a morning breakfast meeting and talk about this more, and bring in some others". I know someone has to do the splaining. But I'm not quite ready for it to be me.

I got past that point a long time ago. In high-school, I intentionally failed a public-speaking class because it was a follow on to another class I actually wanted, and I was stuck with it. I refused to risk embarrassing myself. This fact alone privately embarrassed me and ate at me, and I chose to defeat that fear. I can speak in groups now, with almost no discomfort. Participating on the podcast was a zero-stress issue for me. The boss chooses me when a guest wants to speak with the crew. I took it one step further recently, and auditioned for a role in local community theater.

No fear, no more. Life's too short.

Steve

[humblest]

I have not found the cost of a pre-mixed bottle to be significant. Especially when you amortize it across the hours of welding. And in some instances, the purchase of %He is far, far cheaper than a TIG box with more amps.

I've toyed with the idea of 2 separate tanks in the shop, a Y fitting, and then on-the-fly mixing. In reality, it doesn't seem as effective to me as a pre-mixed bottle. There is little to no downside that I can tell from using pre-mixed Ar/He on steel, and none that I can detect on the other metals. Sure, the arc is hotter, but that is offset by using less pedal.

I do see benefits of the He mix: less distortion, deeper penetration on thick material, less amps.

So for a few dollars more... I'll stick with the Helium mixture.

this is very informative to me and very helpful since the cost of a large welding machine is large as well. I live in California and i ve been investigating about prices on things that i will have to get locally such as shielding gas, cylinder etc.
i just posted another thread about the price on argon around here actually is the price from a LWS (Argon Refiil $180.00). it kind of scared me. But if things(welding beads ) look better without compromising the integrity of the material being welded it sounds like something i would enjoy practicing on. Thank you for your words.

[humblest]

While cj737 makes several valid points, I would think the price of a helium mix is going to vary by region, meaning how close are you to a major refining/storage/shipping center? In very low demand market areas, it could be quite costly. You'll simply have to price it and see. Price it from every source within reason to your location, too. Sometimes the "mom and pop" shops will stun you with the prices they can give you.

One big plus to a mix bottle is a precise mixture. One big downside is, unless you get more than one bottle you only have one mixture.

It's difficult to get a reasonably accurate mixture using conventional flowmeters. I have several at work marked for helium, and they're designed to be used in the 80-100 CFH range. the "10" on the scale is just floating the ball, and mixed with argon at (a more readable) 10, would give a 20 CFH flow and a 50/50 mix. To get anywhere near a 25% He mix, you've got to set flow so low that the ball "bounces", barely oscillating off the bottom of the gauge, with the argon set at 15.

I'm perfectly willing to go through mixing my own, as I have unlimited access to helium at no cost and only rarely need it for welding. I use large quantities in Helium leak detection, and one of our clients provides it at no charge. At one time, the bean counters wanted us to purchase it, until we explained we'd just mark it up 30% and sell it back to them.

Steve

great information, it is pretty clear that you guys have been doing this for a long time. thank you for your words.

[cj737]

i just posted another thread about the price on argon around here actually is the price from a LWS (Argon Refiil $180.00). it kind of scared me.

Holy Bejeezus! $180! Someone is screwing their customers. I have numerous 330 tanks, and not a single one of them cost me even $100 to fill. Now, I have an account (as is required by these companies) to have my owner-owned tanks (I also lease 4 others) filled. But I pay less than $90 for Ar/He, $65 for Argon, and $75 for 75/25 MIG. I think I was quoted $120 for pure He in a 330 tank. $180 for Argon?!?!? WTF!!!!!

Perhaps that price included the bottle lease for a year as a new customer/setup?

[humblest]

i've been reading on some other threads that usually LWS raise the price on new customers or customers with no account with them, maybe the guy notice my inexperience right away and saw a good sale, and since i dont know anything about prices i could not say nothing, thank you guys

[humblest]

i just posted another thread about the price on argon around here actually is the price from a LWS (Argon Refiil $180.00). it kind of scared me.

Holy Bejeezus! $180! Someone is screwing their customers. I have numerous 330 tanks, and not a single one of them cost me even $100 to fill. Now, I have an account (as is required by these companies) to have my owner-owned tanks (I also lease 4 others) filled. But I pay less than $90 for Ar/He, $65 for Argon, and $75 for 75/25 MIG. I think I was quoted $120 for pure He in a 330 tank. $180 for Argon?!?!? WTF!!!!!

Perhaps that price included the bottle lease for a year as a new customer/setup?

[Poland308]

See the fine blue print where it says log in to get YOUR price. If you start a relationship with the sales people at your local store then that price will go way down. That's like MSRP on a new car. It's just a mythical number they pull out of thin air.

[humblest]

See the fine blue print where it says log in to get YOUR price. If you start a relationship with the sales people at your local store then that price will go way down. That's like MSRP on a new car. It's just a mythical number they pull out of thin air.

I will try that to see what happens, i am just getting to know all(infinite) things that are involved into the welding process at this point i am just absorbing as much as i can. Thank you for your words