[Vulpine welder]

Okay,
I've got some guys at work using a transformer miller syncrowave 250 or more I think. They were using a water cooler for a water cooled torch but where they work it's in a sanding room and the lines would be constantly breaking because of misuse so they switched to an air cooled torch. Now they keep having problems melting their tungstens and thus melting through the side of their cup after some welding. They mostly do some filling up on corners that need to make a sharp ninety after being welded. We weld aluminum of varying thicknesses. I think they run their machine about 140 give or take in either direction. 3/32 E3 tungsten and the regular number 5 alumina ceramic cup. I told them they might want to increase their tungsten size but I'm not sure, they say that they have a power spike if they have to weld for too long and thus they burn up there tungsten and cup. Any ideas or advice on solving the issue would be helpful.

[cj737]

In my experience, a 3/32 tungsten and a #5 cup will weld at 140amps all day long without issue. I'd suspect a gas flow problem if you're melting tungstens. Or, the aluminum is getting so hot it's melting the cup then damaging the tungsten as a result...

[Warrenh]

How much stick out do they have?

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[Skylineauto]

Also check the AC balance, too much cleaning action will case more than wanted heat in the tungsten.

[Warrenh]

I ask because I work with guys who keep their tungsten recesssed in the cup and they burn up tons of cups, especially with gas lenses. They dall a 3/32 tungsten bigger than a 1/8 tungsten. B

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[Oscar]

Why don't you just show them how to properly weld, or have someone teach them? Why ask why if you already know there's improper technique involved? Since their tungsten is recessed in the cup, I bet you they have a massive arc length, not to mention the tilt of the cup creating even more arc length. All this is speculation because even though you've described the problem somewhat, the fact that you're indirectly speaking for the welders has you not able to clearly depict the actual welding scenario. Notice that you haven't described hardly anything with numbers, except the tungsten size and one amperage value, which is just one of maybe, oh 15 variables in TIG welding? 140A in either direction? What does that mean? Going both left-and-right and right-and-left? Are they welding 1/8" thick material? Butt joint? T-joint? Any other settings? See how all we can do is just sit here and play the guessing game and probably not even be close until you disclose everything? Not trying to be harsh, but with as intricate as TIG welding is, you gotta sit down and either describe the issue with 2,000 words, or better yet, take a few pictures or a video.

[Warrenh]

Are you talking to me or the OP? I assumed me because of the recessed tungsten comment and I was just giving him something to check. As far as telling them about their setup. I have. A lot of welders are arrogant and think their way is perfect. You can lead a horse to water and drown him in it and he still wont drink. Why dont you take the time see what people are talking about before you rant. Other than suggesting pictures I didnt see anything helpful or courteous in your post. Help if you can but your tone was unnecessary.

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[Oscar]

My mistaken Warrenh, I did get the posts mixed up thinking your reply was that of the OP. Even then, people read too much into [my] posts, seriously. Yes I have a more "direct approach" than others, but don't take it too personal because it's anything but. Yes it's a crutch because then people [who don't know me] think I'm trying to be mean or whatever, but those that really know me personally know it's just my way of getting to the bottom of things, quickly. Here, have this beer, on me.

[Vulpine welder]

Oscar,
Thanks for the advice, I'm still new to trying to explain problems without inundating everyone with details. I can not speak about there torch angle because I really have no idea. The guys doing most of the welding aren't actually welders and I've tried when permitting to teach some of them I've got other guys coming behind me giving them bad information, and as they would rather me stick to my job then teach other people I don't get to solve the problem. We have "trainers" but good luck learning anything.
From my observance the tungsten is always recessed in the cup. Material thickness can vary greatly from 1/8" to 1/4" depending on the location. They mostly weld on flat plate to fix suck backs, or outside corner joints for build up. Not sure about the balance, and gas flow is usually around 30 cfh but that's because there is a lot of fans in the area. If I could I would take pictures. If you have any other suggestions let me know and I will try my best to address them.

[Warrenh]

Ok. No sweat. As far as the recessed tungsten, I think it is a cheat to keep from dipping the tungsten. I also think the op doesnt have much welding experience, at least in tig. Just from the sound of the question.

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[cj737]

...I've got other guys coming behind me giving them bad information, and as they would rather me stick to my job then teach other people I don't get to solve the problem.

Please don't interpret this wrong, but perhaps you should stay clear of this problem and focus on your responsibilities? If they aren't interested in correcting an issue they don't acknowledge exists, any amount of input will only alienate you from your peers/supervisors.

[Warrenh]

If the tungsten is recessed then that is the problem. There should be 1/8 to 3/16 stick out. This keeps the heat outside the cup and prevents long arcing.

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[noddybrian]

I loved " the guys doing the welding are'nt actually welders " ! so what are they then ? I heard you can train a monkey to Mig weld but surely not Tig ? could be wrong I guess - they do have thumbs !

[Oscar]

I loved " the guys doing the welding are'nt actually welders " ! so what are they then ? I heard you can train a monkey to Mig weld but surely not Tig ? could be wrong I guess - they do have thumbs !

I put on my P.I. hat and did some poking around......here is the issue.....




they are monkeys tig welding!


No wonder he can't get anyone to listen!

[Farmwelding]

Monkey mig welding-courtesy of student who I would have rather not had to teach tig welding but luckily I didn't have to teach mig welding.

[Vulpine welder]

cj737,
Most of the time I stick to my own work but on occasion I get an opportunity to go back and talk with them. Try to actually teach them something about welding, but seeing as I'm still learning it's more like the blind leading the blind. They just told me they were having this problem and was trying to help them out. Try to learn something also. So thanks for all the input.
Warrenh,
You're right I'm still trying to learn. Got to start somewhere. What are somethings I could focus on to so I can ask questions in a better way? And learn to tig weld. That would be good.

[kiwi2wheels]

Have the firm invest in a copy of this manual.

https://www.amazon.com/Gas-Tungsten-Arc ... 1566372062

[Warrenh]

We are all still learning. There was nothing wrong with the question. Sometimes you might have to add more details. As far as getting better at tig welding, learn to relax your torch hand. You need to be able to slide it and move it smoothly and tension kills that. Dont get too caught up in settings. I weld aluminum all day. The machine I prefer is a miller synch 351. It has ac balance and amps settings. Nothing else. I keep it at 400 amps. I couldnt tell you what amps I use for what. Watch your puddle and use the heat you need.

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[Lightning]

I heard you can train a monkey to Mig weld

That's not what scares me...

http://i.imgur.com/QOdjW.jpg