[MosquitoMoto]

Braehill -

I've tried the fab shop/industry connection via friends but where it falls apart is the dreaded insurance question. What if the bottle goes missing? What if someone is injured or something is damaged due to a bottle that's meant to be on company premises, used by company employees...but isn't?

It's a good suggestion but it goes south fast, in my experience, when it comes time to make it happen. Nobody wants to wear a risk just to help out some little guy.

Now...I'm running low lpm, I've tested for leaks, I even turn off the bottle valve between welds, but you have way more experience than me...happy to hear any and all tips on saving gas!

Thanks for your suggestions.


Kym

[Braehill]

Kym,

Check out these links to a prior topic we had here on gas surge. It should give you a few ideas to help save gas, it will not however help with the price, sorry.

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... =Gas+surge

Len

[MosquitoMoto]

Kym,

Check out these links to a prior topic we had here on gas surge. It should give you a few ideas to help save gas, it will not however help with the price, sorry.

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... =Gas+surge

Len

Len -

Thanks so much, really appreciate the tips!


Kym

[MosquitoMoto]

Have had a read of those tips regarding surge, Len.

Thanks so much. I am already learning so much on this forum. Now, my setup isn't a permanent one, I need to move it around now and then, so I won't be doing any permanent plumbing. However, at the very least what I can do is raise my welder up on a platform so that it is almost level with my gas gear, and shorten the hose from the flow meter to the welder down to less than 12 inches (see me being all imperial friendly?) instead of the length it is now...I'm guessing maybe four feet?

That's gotta help right away.

Cheers,


Kym

[GarryH]

Hi Kym,
I feel your pain, I am over 60 and approaching retirement and I have taken up MIG and TIG welding in the past few years and used to rent from CIG but now have bought my bottles from Speed Gas, 18 months rent buys the bottles, so I am in front now and forever. I have an E for 5:2 MIG gas, but will change that to a G next time, and a G for Ar 100 because I TIG and also MIG aluminium.

I think the smartest thing I did was go to TAFE for the 5 week basic courses and then the multiple 10 week more advanced courses over a period of two years.

That way I got to use gas like it was going out of fashion, and at less than $10 an hour with all supplies and gas included it was great value for money and we laid those beads like we were in the USA.

At home, I am more conservative of course, its my money in gas now, but the value for money comes in the bigger bottles, so its worth saving and upgrading to the bigger bottles when you own them. They always keep their value, SpeedGas swap bottles, so you will always have a bottle in date, and gas price is similar to BOC or Lindaire etc. Yes we pay a lot more than most of the world for consumables, especially at the retail level, but we do have to remember that our wages are a lot higher than most of the world.

If you are in a capital city, have a look at TAFE for their night welding courses and see if you can afford to get in for a basic TIG course, you will learn a lot, have an instructor, and get to use their gas etc as you learn. A couple of hundred dollars for 15 hours of instruction etc is pretty good value.

[MosquitoMoto]

Hey Garry.

Yep, I'm in the middle of a WEA course right now. I'm in a capital city and there are indeed TAFE courses too, but they are almost an hour's drive away...not great with a young family.

I'm actually reasonably happy with my progress. The work I really have to nail is welding of thin wall aluminium tube. I can do it...make functional welds. But of course what I want is to do functional welds that also look professional. While I'll admit that there's no substitute for one-on-one tutoring by experts, I think I'm now in good shape to carry on solo (with help of forums like this) but that doesn't stop gas prices being a significant issue.

I own one little D size bottle which is all I could stretch to after shelling out for my TIG. And yes, I'll be picking up a bigger bottle as cash allows. But wow...despite the E size containing more than twice the gas that the D does, at $149 for a refill that is still hellishly expensive. I'm willing to pay good money for quality, but this has nothing to do with quality or even service...it's just plain old gouging. And I'm afraid that reflecting on the average Australian wage doesn't seem to make me feel any better about it!

So while I respect your views (and kinda admire your philosophical acceptance of the situation!) I'm going to stay pissed off and keep looking for a better way. I hope welding angry won't mess up my puddle control!

EDIT - just noticed that my nearest Speedgas is in Mount Gambier...5 hour's drive away!

Kym

[TRACKRANGER]

Hey Garry.

EDIT - just noticed that my nearest Speedgas is in Mount Gambier...5 hour's drive away!

Kym

Ouch. It's not getting better is it?

[MosquitoMoto]

Hey Garry.

EDIT - just noticed that my nearest Speedgas is in Mount Gambier...5 hour's drive away!

Kym

Ouch. It's not getting better is it?

Well...I have Power 10 gases nearby, but the biggest argon bottle they do is an E. So here's the plan. Until I come up with a better solution (and I'm damned if this thing is gonna beat me!) I'll do it like this:

1) I've just bought a basket case motorbike for $100. If there's something I definitely CAN do its rebuild a bike. So I'll rebuild this one on a budget with a view of turning $500 to $800 profit in it. Apart from a head gasket, what this bike needs is mostly time. It's easy to sell bikes to hipsters.

2) with the bike money in my pocket, I will grit my teeth, go down to Power 10 and buy an E size argon bottle.

That will see me owning a D and an E. And until I uncover a better way, that will just have to do. I reckon I can have the bike rebuilt by spring. Until then I'll just have to "nut up or shut up" as they say in Zombieland.


Kym

[Elliotaw]

I sent you a PM. Still trying to learn this site as its new to me.

I pay less than $60 for a full E size refill of pure argon with Supagas and then monthly rental is just over $15 a month. I compared that with the power10 prices not long ago and I think I'll carry on renting for now.

I use a reasonable amount of gas so maybe thats why they cut me a deal but I'm certainly not an industrial user.

Where abouts in oz are you ? if your not a million miles away from me in Melbourne, maybe I can help you ?


Elliot

[MosquitoMoto]

I sent you a PM. Still trying to learn this site as its new to me.

I pay less than $60 for a full E size refill of pure argon with Supagas and then monthly rental is just over $15 a month. I compared that with the power10 prices not long ago and I think I'll carry on renting for now.

I use a reasonable amount of gas so maybe thats why they cut me a deal but I'm certainly not an industrial user.

Where abouts in oz are you ? if your not a million miles away from me in Melbourne, maybe I can help you ?


Elliot

Thanks Elliot...PM on its way.


Kym

[GarryH]

Hi Kym,

if you already own a small bottle just check that Power 10 won't let you trade it in on a larger one, that is what I did with SpeedGas, I just paid the guy the difference between E and G when the time came.

All your comments and views appreciated. And yes a friend of mine with an aluminium fabrication shop pays about 1/3 what I do for gas, but he has three full time welders and weekly deliveries.

On the thin aluminium, I struggle a bit with that too, and it is something I want to get better at so I can do a bit more fabrication stuff on my race cars. TAFE only teaches the basics, and nothing less than 1.6mm alloy, so working with .8 etc is a bit testing. Lucky I use scrap from the fab shop and take it back with added weight, from my filler rods.

Cheers,

enjoy your welding!

[MosquitoMoto]

Hi Kym,

if you already own a small bottle just check that Power 10 won't let you trade it in on a larger one, that is what I did with SpeedGas, I just paid the guy the difference between E and G when the time came.

All your comments and views appreciated. And yes a friend of mine with an aluminium fabrication shop pays about 1/3 what I do for gas, but he has three full time welders and weekly deliveries.

On the thin aluminium, I struggle a bit with that too, and it is something I want to get better at so I can do a bit more fabrication stuff on my race cars. TAFE only teaches the basics, and nothing less than 1.6mm alloy, so working with .8 etc is a bit testing. Lucky I use scrap from the fab shop and take it back with added weight, from my filler rods.

Cheers,

enjoy your welding!

Thanks Garry.

No Power 10 won't let me trade up from D to E. I asked and they were adamant that it's not something they do. Why? Just being obstructive I guess. I've only had the bottle a few weeks.

Now...I owe special thanks to everyone who has chimed in with answers, especially Garry and Elliot. I had a blonde moment and took awhile to realise that I do in fact have a Supagas dealer nearby. Well...

...I called them and what a difference! Brilliant attitude from all of their people. Real service. Now, while what they've been able to offer might not be the deal of the century (it'd still be bloody expensive by 'Merican standards...) it is in fact much better than anything else I've seen.

But again, the big difference is service and attitude. The big gas boys in this country that you like dirt. The Supagas people have been great, even offering me a direct mobile phone number in case I have any questions. So it's Supagas who'll get my cash during this intensive practise phase. They have earned it.

Oh and Garry, I'm reliably welding 1mm aluminium sheet now, but still getting my head around small diameter, thin wall tube.

Kym

[GarryH]

Great news Kym, good to see you have had a great response from SupaGas, they were my second choice up here. The SpeedGas guy just happened to be an old retired farmer trying to make a bit on the side at first, and his attitude to customers I reckon is why he is now full time with employees delivering for him out of a small town near here. I reckon he needed employees though because he loves a chat and would never get the rounds done, lol.

I will keep going with my thin alloy practice too, the fab shop uses pulse on pulse mig for most of their thin wall stuff, and TIG for the stuff that has to look good, the main frames.

Cheers,

gh

[MrFly]

Hi guys,

Hard to believe that you are paying a ridiculous amount for the E/D sized cylinders. At the moment the boss pays around $150/$175 G Sized bottle.

[Otto Nobedder]

I've no concept of the economy in OZ, but I have to ask.

If you're using serious gas, and it's that far/expensive for a refill, what would it cost to lease a Dewar of liquid argon? How much welding would it take to make this economical?

Steve S

[ex framie]

Garry H
Are you near the Ipswich area.
You just described my speedie gas rep.

[GarryH]

Garry H
Are you near the Ipswich area.
You just described my speedie gas rep.

Yep, Jindalee area, great guy isn't he.

gh

[ex framie]

Yep he is.
Typical farmer.
Glad to hear he's doing well and expanding, he has a huge area to service.
Its been a year and looks like I'll need his services shortly.