Welding Tips and Tricks

The hole in the bottom of my steering knuckle where the ball joint enters and in held in by a pinch bolt has elongated. This had worn out several years back and I had it stick welded (and ground) using a nickle rod. Now I am looking at TIG welding more filler metal back in. Assuming it is cast iron...I haven't confirmed...would it be better to use a nickle 55 or 99? It needs to be wear resistant, somewhat flexible, and I should only be making one pass. I will preheat heat with a map gas torch and try to weld as cool as possible.

HgCougar wrote:The hole in the bottom of my steering knuckle where the ball joint enters and in held in by a pinch bolt has elongated. This had worn out several years back and I had it stick welded (and ground) using a nickle rod. Now I am looking at TIG welding more filler metal back in. Assuming it is cast iron...I haven't confirmed...would it be better to use a nickle 55 or 99? It needs to be wear resistant, somewhat flexible, and I should only be making one pass. I will preheat heat with a map gas torch and try to weld as cool as possible.

I'll play devil's advocate here, why not replace at this point or is this a rare piece? After being welded multiple times I'd worry about additional stress. Maybe a machined bushing drilled and press fit would be a better option.

I agree with Rick. Just because you can weld something, should you? I have a policy that I will repair NOTHING critical if it can be replaced or repaired with a better method than welding such as mechanical fasteners etc. If the piece is not replaceable I can understand but sometimes welding isn't the best choice.

Most of the steering knuckles I've seen have been cast steel and therefore weldable but this sounds like a repair where you should replace the part. Why did it wear in the first place? Was the ball joint seized? There really shouldn't be any slip in this joint for it to wear out.

I would rather replace it but it is discontinued and I can not find any new ones. I'm sure I could get a used one from a junk yard but then I am just replacing with one that would also have wear.

I'm not all that surprised it has worn out a couple times over the course of 185,000 miles and a bunch of autocrosses/hard driving. The ball stud may not have been sized large enough from the factory or the fit a little loose.

Get the junkyard part Wear here is rare, and yours was caused by something unusual, such as an inadequately tightened nut on the ball joint.

Steve S

It is possible to have a new part made from scratch too. Could you tell us what this is on, some of us might know of places to get parts.

Hey! I deciphered his name! I would imagine it's a Mercury Cougar (you know, since his names Hg Cougar), and if I were to autocross a Cougar, it would be the older, square body, rear wheel drive ones!

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Well if that's case parts can be found also the mustang used same parts as these. Internet is your friend on finding these parts. Don't know your year but a quick search brought this up. Not familiar with company. You just need to do some searching on net. Got used spindles and all sorts of stuff on there.
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com

GreinTime wrote:Hey! I deciphered his name! I would imagine it's a Mercury Cougar (you know, since his names Hg Cougar), and if I were to autocross a Cougar, it would be the older, square body, rear wheel drive ones!

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We have a winner...mostly. 2000 Mercury Cougar (its the wrong-wheel-drive one).

dirtmidget33 wrote:It is possible to have a new part made from scratch too. Could you tell us what this is on, some of us might know of places to get parts.

I thought about this too. It would be a fun project, I could replace the tie rods with rod ends that I could shim to adjust bump steer and use a uniball or something better instead of the ball joint. Of course it would have been better if I had done this at the same time I made my control arms.
Unfortunetly I don't know how I would do this cheaply. I could design it in SolidWorks but I would imagine the machining would be beyond my skill level or access to equipment.

You could.... FORGE IT! Or have someone who likes forging do the cast for you.

I love this guy's videos, he's got some of the coolest projects but here's him building out his own metal furnace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK6iSgRrNXM

entity-unknown wrote:You could.... FORGE IT! Or have someone who likes forging do the cast for you.

I love this guy's videos, he's got some of the coolest projects but here's him building out his own metal furnace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK6iSgRrNXM

That's a pretty cool video.

So I ended up buying two used ones from a junk yard. I asked them verify there was no wear before they pulled them from the vehicle. $80 later...I have two more knuckles with the same amount of wear as the ones I wanted to replace.

If it appears to be the same amount of wear I'd almost have to wonder if it's not the knuckle but where the knuckle connects to the axle. It's starting to sound like the ball joint bushings on the axle are now rounded out. You'd know if they are if you can hand press some ball joints in them. If it requires any less than a ball joint press and some good torque to put the ball joints in, then it's far too rounded out and you're looking at replacing the axle arms.

The thing about machining/mechanics is if you swap one part for another and the same experience happens, likely it's the other part. Considering your story, I think you'll find your ball joint mounts are rounded out. Assuming that's the story, you're best off replacing the entire portion whether it be the entire axle, or just the joints the ball joints mount into (every vehicle is different) because building up the weld and machining it out perfectly so you get that proper fit is near impossible without a very large setup and the absolute correct tools/jigs.

entity-unknown wrote:If it appears to be the same amount of wear I'd almost have to wonder if it's not the knuckle but where the knuckle connects to the axle. It's starting to sound like the ball joint bushings on the axle are now rounded out. You'd know if they are if you can hand press some ball joints in them. If it requires any less than a ball joint press and some good torque to put the ball joints in, then it's far too rounded out and you're looking at replacing the axle arms.

The thing about machining/mechanics is if you swap one part for another and the same experience happens, likely it's the other part. Considering your story, I think you'll find your ball joint mounts are rounded out. Assuming that's the story, you're best off replacing the entire portion whether it be the entire axle, or just the joints the ball joints mount into (every vehicle is different) because building up the weld and machining it out perfectly so you get that proper fit is near impossible without a very large setup and the absolute correct tools/jigs.

I'm not following. I am referring to the bottom portion of the knuckle that clamps onto the ball joint via a pinch bolt. It is visibly worn and is no longer round or has the appropriate taper and therefore I might be getting movement even though the pinch bolt is tight. It is not a press fit, has nothing to do with the CV axle, and the problem has not reoccurred on my car...it was a junk yard part that also has the wear. This is on the front suspension on a FWD car.

The main point was that if the same issue is occurring with an alternate part, usually that means the part you're attaching to has issues. The other indicator is if you can put ball joints in without a press, you've got major issues. If you've ever hammered them in, you will have issues.

With knuckles and ball joints, they require a tight press. The general test procedure for ball joints it a shake down for each wheel. You're obviously asking questionssto hopefully you can take a few minutes to read. You read my post The below link will explain the entire process of the shake down. Even if you've done this before, you're not a mechanic by trade so you hopefully appreciate a refresher. I know I always do

http://www.wikihow.com/Check-Ball-Joints

entity-unknown wrote:The main point was that if the same issue is occurring with an alternate part, usually that means the part you're attaching to has issues. The other indicator is if you can put ball joints in without a press, you've got major issues. If you've ever hammered them in, you will have issues.

With knuckles and ball joints, they require a tight press. The general test procedure for ball joints it a shake down for each wheel. You're obviously asking questionssto hopefully you can take a few minutes to read. You read my post The below link will explain the entire process of the shake down. Even if you've done this before, you're not a mechanic by trade so you hopefully appreciate a refresher. I know I always do

http://www.wikihow.com/Check-Ball-Joints

He's talking about the tapered hole at the bottom of his spindle, not the ball joint bore in the the control arm, for clarification. Just figured I'd let you know before he freaks out and calls you nasty names

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Also, Honda ball joints are press out, after removing the snap ring, and typically you can tap them back in with a socket as long as you're straight. Chevy and some others have run screw in ball joints (may be Ford now that I've said that, can't remember.) Chevy also ran riveted/bolted ball joints for the longest time.

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GreinTime wrote:

entity-unknown wrote:The main point was that if the same issue is occurring with an alternate part, usually that means the part you're attaching to has issues. The other indicator is if you can put ball joints in without a press, you've got major issues. If you've ever hammered them in, you will have issues.

With knuckles and ball joints, they require a tight press. The general test procedure for ball joints it a shake down for each wheel. You're obviously asking questionssto hopefully you can take a few minutes to read. You read my post The below link will explain the entire process of the shake down. Even if you've done this before, you're not a mechanic by trade so you hopefully appreciate a refresher. I know I always do

http://www.wikihow.com/Check-Ball-Joints

He's talking about the tapered hole at the bottom of his spindle, not the ball joint bore in the the control arm, for clarification. Just figured I'd let you know before he freaks out and calls you nasty names

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^^^What he said. Also the second part that is also worn is a part that I just got from a junk yard. I have not installed it on my car because it isn't any better than the one it was supposed to replace...nothing to do with mating components being the problem.

Back to my original question. Do I spend another 40-50 bucks and take my chances on getting another junk used part or do I spend that money on a nickle rod? I took a picture of the sparks produced by grinding. Although they looked very similar to a low/medium carbon steel I think the red/orange color near the wheel confirms it is indeed cast iron.