Welding Tips and Tricks

Question for you'se. Today I welded a .050 wall pipe ( machined custom) to a manifold block. Both were 6061 and just machined. I cleaned with crc brake cleaner after wire brushing with SS brush used only for aluminum.
It went well but there was a whitish soot like film over the weld when done.
2% lanthanated 3/32 electrode at 160 amps (Max to pedal) at 30 cfm on 100% argon. After hitting it with scotch Brite it looked ok but am wondering why I am not getting that pretty shiny weld I see so many get. Thoughts? Thanks

I've never used CRC so don't know about that, what filler did you use?

Welcome, Waldo,

You used 4043 filler, I'd bet.

If so, you did nothing wrong. It's just the nature of the dilution of the parent metal into the filler, and vice-versa.

4943 will give better results for initial appearance, as will 5356. Until I see evidence to contradict me, I'll say 5356 is the closer match for ultimate strength welding 6061.

If I'm off the mark, please share the filler metal used. That frosty appearance is almost automatic with 4043 on 6061 (and 6063).

Steve S

LtBadd wrote:I've never used CRC so don't know about that, what filler did you use?

CRC is a brand name of a non-chlorinated aerosol brake parts cleaner. I think Kimball-Midwest distributes it.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:

LtBadd wrote:I've never used CRC so don't know about that, what filler did you use?

CRC is a brand name of a non-chlorinated aerosol brake parts cleaner. I think Kimball-Midwest distributes it.

Steve S

Yes, I should have stated that I never used it to clean B4 welding so wasn't sure if this would play into the question.

LtBadd wrote:

Otto Nobedder wrote:

LtBadd wrote:I've never used CRC so don't know about that, what filler did you use?

CRC is a brand name of a non-chlorinated aerosol brake parts cleaner. I think Kimball-Midwest distributes it.

Steve S

Yes, I should have stated that I never used it to clean B4 welding so wasn't sure if this would play into the question.

My misunderstanding...
No, it is a near-zero residue cleaner I often use when I actually need to clean aluminum. (I rarely do more than physical prep, i.e. grind and/or wire-wheel, on much of the aluminum I do. Occasionally, for a critical piece of pipe, I'll get surgical about it.)

Steve S

I should clarify, the higher the base alloy relative to the filler metal, the more "frost" I see on the finished bead.

I can weld 3003 with 4043 all day, and the dimes will have a mirror shine. If I weld 5053 with 4043, there's a hint of dullness to the bead. With 60XX, I always see "frost", like the cleaning action had affected the bead. I'm not sure if that's not what's going on, that the higher alloying elements aren't still seeing the EP behind the puddle as you advance, now that I think about it... so the frosty finish is analogous to the frosty sides in the etched zone.

Hmm. Food for thought.

Steve S

How much doe's anyone wanna bet somebody is gonna come along and say that welding over brake cleaner will kill you with phosgene gas....1...2...3...

exnailpounder wrote:How much doe's anyone wanna bet somebody is gonna come along and say that welding over brake cleaner will kill you with phosgene gas....1...2...3...

Wouldn't surprise me.
Since chloroflourocarbon propellants and the hazardous halogen solvents were banned, this issue went away. Like in the 1980's.

Steve S

Otto you hit it on the head. I was using 4043. Thanks for all the quick replies. I have much to learn and think I found the spot. Regarding the CRC brake cleaner it works well for cleaning critical parts. Let it fully evaporate and use ventilation to get the fumes out before you weld though. Arc and chlorine make bad stuff for your lungs.
Thanks again folks

Welding over brake cleaner will kill you with phosgene gas....1...2...3...

PRICK

Otto Nobedder wrote:

exnailpounder wrote:How much doe's anyone wanna bet somebody is gonna come along and say that welding over brake cleaner will kill you with phosgene gas....1...2...3...

Wouldn't surprise me.
Since chloroflourocarbon propellants and the hazardous halogen solvents were banned, this issue went away. Like in the 1980's.

Steve S

Actually, you could buy chlorinated brake clean up until a few years ago.

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Matter of fact, it was a red can/green can type of deal from CRC.

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With the constant bombardment of cheap imports from asia, it is important that one remains vigilant and doesn't simply say that's impossible. We have products imported into Australia that have asbestos in them, Despite our rigid ban on asbestos products. Their excuse.....OHHHH You mean THAT asbestos. (There's a heap of different varieties. )

Well it's not good for you playing with nasty chemicals but I'm living proof it takes more of them to kill you than the " experts " think ! when I was a kid I cut thousands of asbestos 2nd hand roof sheets with abrasive saws dry - could'nt see for clouds of it - if they had masks back then we never got any ! as an apprentice I got to blow out all the trailer brakes of dust on trailers built from around the 50's - in my 20's we repaired steam boilers which meant I got to hack off all the lagging which was asbestos & remember having many " snowball " fights when mixing up the plaster / asbestos / horse hair to re-lag them - then when we started getting turbo / supercharged engines on plant when they had done a lot of hours they would smoke & have little power because re-breathed crankcase fumes were fed into the air intake carrying all sorts of oily residue which stuck to the intake pipes & charge cooler cores ckoking them - I discovered the quick fix was to fill spray gun with tricloroethane or similar - rev the thing flat out & spray a bit at a time into the intake - not too much as it stops it from oxygen displacement - initially you get really black clouds out of the exhaust but once cleaned it comes out as a white fog & I knew one sniff took your breath away & gave you a bad head & cough for a day or two but at the time never realized what it was! engines went brilliant though! I could go on with the list of farm chemicals that I've misused & my time making unstable stuff for removing tree stumps etc - I'm mid 50's now - how long do you reckon I got left ? think I've done remarkably well - only missing a couple of finger ends & a slightly squashed right knee as obvious signs of mishaps - most guys I worked with are already in a box !

noddybrian wrote:Well it's not good for you playing with nasty chemicals but I'm living proof it takes more of them to kill you than the " experts " think ! when I was a kid I cut thousands of asbestos 2nd hand roof sheets with abrasive saws dry - could'nt see for clouds of it - if they had masks back then we never got any ! as an apprentice I got to blow out all the trailer brakes of dust on trailers built from around the 50's - in my 20's we repaired steam boilers which meant I got to hack off all the lagging which was asbestos & remember having many " snowball " fights when mixing up the plaster / asbestos / horse hair to re-lag them - then when we started getting turbo / supercharged engines on plant when they had done a lot of hours they would smoke & have little power because re-breathed crankcase fumes were fed into the air intake carrying all sorts of oily residue which stuck to the intake pipes & charge cooler cores ckoking them - I discovered the quick fix was to fill spray gun with tricloroethane or similar - rev the thing flat out & spray a bit at a time into the intake - not too much as it stops it from oxygen displacement - initially you get really black clouds out of the exhaust but once cleaned it comes out as a white fog & I knew one sniff took your breath away & gave you a bad head & cough for a day or two but at the time never realized what it was! engines went brilliant though! I could go on with the list of farm chemicals that I've misused & my time making unstable stuff for removing tree stumps etc - I'm mid 50's now - how long do you reckon I got left ? think I've done remarkably well - only missing a couple of finger ends & a slightly squashed right knee as obvious signs of mishaps - most guys I worked with are already in a box !

You sound like me...I can't believe sometimes I'm still here with all the crap I have breathed and got soaked in and cut without a mask etc...My dad passed away 6 years ago from complications of asbestosis at 83 years old. He could hardly breath but he worked til he was 80. Todays girly man runs to the HR department if somebody blows a fart in the elevator.

Hey that cloudy film is usually the case of not enough torch angle/ poor gas shielding. It usually happens when trying to weld around pipe.


If you look to the right you'll see the cloudiness on the hand rail. That's from not enough torch angle.
Hope this helps

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Otto Nobedder wrote:

exnailpounder wrote:How much doe's anyone wanna bet somebody is gonna come along and say that welding over brake cleaner will kill you with phosgene gas....1...2...3...

Wouldn't surprise me.
Since chloroflourocarbon propellants and the hazardous halogen solvents were banned, this issue went away. Like in the 1980's.

Steve S

CRC red can still has tetrocholoroethelyne as the active ingredient, and lists phosgene as a possible side effect of welding over it! I forgot to snap a pic of the warning label for ya!

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From what I've read here, lots of guys don't care or a mad at the Govt' for babying them too much....

Yes - it should still be our constitutional right to be able to kill ourselves anyway we see fit ! I hate the nanny state & safety nazis - I just get the job done how I think it should be !

weldin mike 27 wrote:From what I've read here, lots of guys don't care or a mad at the Govt' for babying them too much....

Well when you grow up doing something one way on the farm or the garage and it has not caused you a problem we stop caring as much. It is proven those grown up on a farm are healthier because they have been introduced to more disease. Arsenic has been in our drinking water and at my grandparents they had it tested so they got a filter a year ago and I tell you I would almost take the arsenic because it tasted better and it never affected my mom, uncles, grandparents, or the cattle that drank thousands of gallons. Now this doesnt mean go out and not care because I was wire brushing some old steel with an angle grinder and there was enough rust, and I was not wearing a respirator. I couldnt do anything for 2 days because I could hardly breath and was constantly coughing. But they say not to get diesel on you and stuff like that, but if Im in the middle of a field by myself and my house is five or more miles away and the sediment bowl gets clogged because Im an idiot well, what do you do. Go out and clean it with your bare hands and hope nobody lights a cigarette in the cab because the fumes were that potent. If you havent done it why are you telling me what to do. )Kind of like weld inspectors who cant weld )