[JayWal]

Anyone have a go to tungsten flavour for welding, oh about 1/16-1/8 wall aluminum tubing? I only had thoriated on hand since I only recently got my Lincoln square wave 200. Thoriated doesn’t seem too popular for alu and I can see why I found a new 3/32 green band (pure?) in a box of parts and tried it for the heck of it. It balled up nicely, but I still seemed to have very good control of the puddle IF I could actually get the arc started!!!! I was worried my machine was faulty, it would take sometimes 10 tries before the arc initiated. Switched back to thoriated and started perfectly every time, but it deformed quickly, grew warts etc

I’m doing more and more alu welding, and I’m all out of tungsten beside thoriated.

I know Jody likes 2% lanth as a “do all” tungsten. Is there a better option if you’re doing JUST aluminum?

Do you want the tungsten to ball? Or was that with older transformer machines...

At what amps would you consider going to 1/8 electrode?

And is there an advantage to using a gas lens on alu? Since there’s no trying to limit discolouration..

Sorry for all the questions Thanks for any help!

[tungstendipper]

2% Lanthinated works great on my Square Wave 200. Grind around 40 degree? (not like a pencil point), more blunt than for steel. Then set your AC balance around 70%. I would use 3/32 tungsten rather than 1/8, this fits your 200 amp machine better. I use a #8 clear glass lens (this helps me see better, gives more light). I love welding Aluminum!!!!

[Demented]

2% Lanthinated works great on my Square Wave 200. Grind around 40 degree? (not like a pencil point), more blunt than for steel. Then set your AC balance around 70%. I would use 3/32 tungsten rather than 1/8, this fits your 200 amp machine better. I use a #8 clear glass lens (this helps me see better, gives more light). I love welding Aluminum!!!!

x2
I run the same setup, though I don't blunt the tungsten. Tacking stuff is enough to ball up the tip just a little and it works great.

[JayWal]

Great info, thanks!

[tweake]

i would look at using 1/8 (3.2mm) above 150-170 amps or so. it depends a bit on ac balance.
thats due to the extra heat from the ac into the tungsten.

[cj737]

I’m with Tweake, swap to a 1/8” tungsten above 150 amps. Whether it’s green or blue, I still ball them before use. I crank my balance down to 30%, amps at 150, and roll on the pedal until I get a clean, small ball. Adjust my balance back to 65->% and weld. It helps me keep my tungsten from shredding and produces a nice stable arc for me. Maybe it’s no longer necessary, but it’s how I learned and I stick with it.

Maybe it will be beneficial for you-

[Jakedaawg]

With my dynasty, the ws2 tri mix from wolfram performs the best when welding both cast aluminum and dirty aluminum tube.

Next best was E3.

I never understood what good tungsten was till I used it.

[JayWal]

I was at the welding supply picking yesterday and asked the guy for some tungsten for Aluminium. He promptly handed me a package of pure, when I said I don’t really like those they don’t work too good he looked at me as if I was from Mars and said they only have Pure and thoriated. And some “brand new stuff” that he’s never seen before. Which was 2% Ceriated, but only in 1/8 and I didn’t have the collets for 1/8 so I asked him to order in some 2% lanth.

He did give me a gas lens to try no charge but there must be a collar that he forgot to give. Since there’s a gap between the top of the cup and the white o ring on the torch that the regular cups seat against. No biggi. I’ll order the stubby set from Weld monger anyways. Might just get the tungsten too. Before Trump slaps a tariff on those too

[JayWal]

Had a buddy come over and raid my aluminum rack to make a deck box frame with. Since i only have the pure tungsten from that dweeb at the Welder Supply i figured id try and make it work. But i had the exact same problems as before. The darn thing just didnt want to establish an arc. it took sometimes 10 pumps of the pedal and getting just the annoying bzzzt of the high freq, sometimes an occasion sputter. it almost seemed like a ground issue because i even got zapped once or twice when i tried tacking without gloves. Its like the torch couldnt arc from tungsten to ground and decided hey lets go through this bozo instead. Which lead to me teaching myself a few new expletives.

even if i stopped a weld mid way, repositioned myself then got on the pedal again, nope. just high freq lightning.

this is ONLY with aluminum and pure tungsten. anything else the arc intiates perfectly. man is it ever annoying. anyone have any ideas?

My ground was directly on the work, sometimes only an inch from the weld. all clean new material.

The idea was to build a frame, paint it matte black them screw on cedar boards.

[cj737]

@Jaywal - when that happens, scratch the tungsten against the material, then light up.

[JayWal]

@Jaywal - when that happens, scratch the tungsten against the material, then light up.

It didn’t help. If I scrub like crazy with a wire brush THEN I got a 50/50 chance of it initiating. But the arc had some weird actions too. For instance tacking a T joint I had a hard time getting the 2 piece to melt together sometimes. Even if I’d point the tungsten straight down onto one piece, the arc would go straight across, almost 90 deg off the tungsten and start puddling on the second piece. Then when happened to touch the first piece with my filler when I dipped into the puddle on piece #2 (bridging them) I got a heck of a zap. Even tho my ground was clamped directly on the first piece.

[cj737]

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. When you can’t get the pure tungsten to light up again, touch or scratch the material. Then, position your tungsten and hit the pedal. This contact seems to restore the tungsten’s ability to establish the arc.

I hypothesize that the aluminum oxide layer somehow contaminated the pure tungsten with an inverter, and this “trick” is just enough to get it to light up again. I have the same issue with my Dynasty and Greens. If stomping the pedal doesn’t get the arc on, I tap the material and it works for me every time.

[JayWal]

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. When you can’t get the pure tungsten to light up again, touch or scratch the material. Then, position your tungsten and hit the pedal. This contact seems to restore the tungsten’s ability to establish the arc.

I hypothesize that the aluminum oxide layer somehow contaminated the pure tungsten with an inverter, and this “trick” is just enough to get it to light up again. I have the same issue with my Dynasty and Greens. If stomping the pedal doesn’t get the arc on, I tap the material and it works for me every time.

Yes I did try that once or twice. Even stepping on the pedal and scratching like I would with scratch start. I can’t say I noticed it working but I will try that again tomorrow. You could be right because whenever I’d sharpen my tungsten after dipping it it lighted up pretty consistently. Once it balled, no dice.

[noddybrian]

Many inverters have weird start issues sometimes specific to one material or tungsten - usually worse on AC - if the arc does'nt start straight away earthing the tungsten with no power on & trying again will usually solve the problem.

[cj737]

Many inverters have weird start issues sometimes specific to one material or tungsten - usually worse on AC - if the arc does'nt start straight away earthing the tungsten with no power on & trying again will usually solve the problem.

Exactly my point.

[Warrenh]

I use the e3 (purple) 1/8 in my squarewave. It seems to last a long time and gives nice welds. I sharpen and let it ball on its own.

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[JayWal]

I use the e3 (purple) 1/8 in my squarewave. It seems to last a long time and gives nice welds. I sharpen and let it ball on its own.

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But of an unrelated question, but have you (or tungstendipper) ever tripped the overheat on the square wave 200 with the 17 torch?? I was a bit worried about the duty cycle when I bought it but I’ve never had it overheat yet and I’ve had the torch hot enough that it was uncomfortable to hold WITH gloves on. I don’t do enough stick welding in the shop to try it with that process.

[tungstendipper]

I use the e3 (purple) 1/8 in my squarewave. It seems to last a long time and gives nice welds. I sharpen and let it ball on its own.

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But of an unrelated question, but have you (or tungstendipper) ever tripped the overheat on the square wave 200 with the 17 torch?? I was a bit worried about the duty cycle when I bought it but I’ve never had it overheat yet and I’ve had the torch hot enough that it was uncomfortable to hold WITH gloves on. I don’t do enough stick welding in the shop to try it with that process.

Nope. Never.

[Warrenh]

Me either. I used it on all the out of position welds on that platform, too.

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[BillE.Dee]

I have also been trying different tungsten just to see what the outcome would be. It seems that the green (pure tungsten) gives the hardest problem starting. At first it begins like lightning in the sky at lower amperage during start, then settles down as the amperage increases with pushing the pedal further down. Where the other tungstens will start no matter pedal position. I was told by different people to reposition the tungsten and try again. Even putting the tip of the green tungsten inside the cup. It still arcs but still starts like lightning.

[LtBadd]

I have also been trying different tungsten just to see what the outcome would be. It seems that the green (pure tungsten) gives the hardest problem starting. At first it begins like lightning in the sky at lower amperage during start, then settles down as the amperage increases with pushing the pedal further down. Where the other tungstens will start no matter pedal position. I was told by different people to reposition the tungsten and try again. Even putting the tip of the green tungsten inside the cup. It still arcs but still starts like lightning.

Millions of aluminum welds have been made successfully using green (pure) tungsten with transformer machines, for many years it was the go-to for ally.
Like anything else, as new tech became available so did new options for tungsten, if you're using an inverter do yourself a favor and skip the pure tungsten.
At one shop I worked before the days of inverter machines, for xray quality aluminum welds we used zirconium tungsten, held up much better then pure and was less likely to spit tungsten into the weld

Chart produced by Miller

tungsten chart.jpg (71.16 KiB) Viewed 4309 times

[JayWal]

I THOUGHT I read that somewhere! But the guy at welder supply thought I was on rocks when I told him. Thanks for the proof!

[cj737]

I THOUGHT I read that somewhere! But the guy at welder supply thought I was on rocks when I told him. Thanks for the proof!

Proof of the adage: "What you can't do, sell to..." I seldom find that the guys behind the counter at the LWS have as much knowledge as those who earn a check burning rods and wire. They're great guys, don't get me wrong, but they can not stay abreast of all the developments and improvements in an industry that is ever-changing and evolving. And if they have never worked under a hood full time, their insight is based purely upon basic understanding or manufacturer rep input. Just use it as a reference, not Gospel.

[Warrenh]

I like the E3 tungsten. I just ordered 10 1/8 from amazon for less than 35 dollars. They hold up very well and I use them for everything.

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