Welding Tips and Tricks

It's going to be 5mm (0.020") sheet, tightest bend will be 32.5mm. I need to TIG weld it and then anodize it. I'd like something a bit less soft and more rigid than 6061. Corrosion resistance might also be a requirement, but I guess the anodize will take care of that?

First one (prototype) for me, then I may do a production run. Going to be laser cut and CNC folded, from my 3D model.

I realise everything is a compromise, and obviously don't want cracking. Any suggestions?

OK, no replies, but the cutting and folding guys are suggesting 5083. Sixty seconds of my research, combined with their knowledge, tells me this is a good choice!

Can anyone suggest which filler will be most appropriate, bearing in mind that I'm intending to bead-blast and then clear anodize?

The joints are typically a 135º outside corner joint (so a 45º vee) in 5mm material, going to weld both sides.

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how hot will it get being so close to an engine and exhaust pipes?
5083, like most 5 series, has a low temp threshold of 65c/149f. this is why 6061 is commonly used on vehicles anywhere near the engine.

ER5556 looks like a good choice for filler. Good strength and Hobart says a good Anodize match for 5xxx.

How big is the bike? Wondering if 5mm is thick enough.
A bash on the plate could easily exceed 10 Gs of force.

tweake wrote:how hot will it get being so close to an engine and exhaust pipes?
5083, like most 5 series, has a low temp threshold of 65c/149f. this is why 6061 is commonly used on vehicles anywhere near the engine.

At the very closest point it is only 7mm clear of the exhaust, but this is 500mm downstream of the exhaust ports. It does run for the next 500mm or so at around 9mm below the exhaust. Bearing in mind the tube's circular section, and the area should get a good airflow, do you think it's likely to get hotter than 65⁰C? Guess I should feely the OEM plate.

What happens to the 5083 after that temperature?

VA-Sawyer wrote:ER5556 looks like a good choice for filler. Good strength and Hobart says a good Anodize match for 5xxx.

How big is the bike? Wondering if 5mm is thick enough.
A bash on the plate could easily exceed 10 Gs of force.

800cc. I've used 6mm on 1200cc Adv bikes, but weight is an important factor - I had considered 4mm. I think my design is better. and ground clearance is better, so I'm happy with this compromise. And I'm hoping using 5083 will provide valid extra strength (vs. 6061), or do you think the extra alloy strength is of little significance in this application?

I'm also having 6082 suggested, seems a better option than 6061 at least.

Going to see how hot the OEM one gets before I make a decision. I don't reckon it'll reach 65ºC.

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OK, had a ride this evening.

I don't think it will reach 65ºC normally, but I think it could exceed it a little (5-10º perhaps) on occasions, such as stuck in city traffic on a hot day.

What would this do to the 5083?

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the problem temps will be when your going slow or stopped. best to test it with bike standing there idling.
i have no idea what happens to 5083 when above that temp. i assume it gets weaker.

edit; what are you measuring with? temp guns are inaccurate.

If you have holes punched in the plate, it will be substantially stronger than a simply thicker plate will be.

If the bike is air-cooled, I would not become overly concerned about radiant temps where the protective plate is. Reason being, nobody lets an air-cooled engine sit about and idle. If it's water-cooled, then the radiant temps will always be somewhat controlled and lower during operation due to airflow.

Pick a material and weld it. I doubt seriously that your welds will be the cause of damage to the bike if the plate suffers a significant enough impact to test the welds. Normally the plate will deform enough to alleviate the stress on the welds. And material thickness (4mm or 6mm) isn't enough weight to make a difference in the overall performance of the bike, so use the 6mm material and be done with it.

I weld 5052 with 5554 filler. I couldn't find much about the max operating temp of 5052 or 5083, but I know the as welded strength is higher than 6061. I have never heard concerns about the alloy itself at temperature. Only the weld.

If you look at the Hobart and Alcotec filler metal charts you will see why I use what I do. I'm sure 5052 is easier to find than 5083. I suggest you use it. I was able to buy 3/32 5554 in 10lb boxes for way too much money. 1/16 I need to order at least 100lb. I have been considering buying it and adding it to my website for years. If you want 5554 please pm me. I called "mr Tig" and he was like "why would you want that. You only need 4043 or 5356 to weld aluminum"... Yeah right, then why do they make the other alloys.

I make weld on fittings and sell them on my website rsengineering.us. Send me a message through my contact form if your interested. I don't want to sound like a sales guy but 100lbs would last me 50 years.