locally a couple crowds have released new acdc tig welders and i'm toying with upgrading.
just wondering what features are your must haves?
also what do you think of mixed tig (pulses ac then dcen) ?
my current one works ok but has some annoying quirks. like pulse doesn't work when pedal is plugged in. only has a high and low pulse setting. no ac frequency adjustment. pedal has the current control knobs on it (min and max).
i find pulse to be very handy on thin stainless and its a little annoying not to be able to adjust it.
Me personally I must have every single feature, including the mustard dispenser. Hence why I bought an HTP Invertig 400.tweake wrote:locally a couple crowds have released new acdc tig welders and i'm toying with upgrading.
just wondering what features are your must haves?
also what do you think of mixed tig (pulses ac then dcen) ?
my current one works ok but has some annoying quirks. like pulse doesn't work when pedal is plugged in. only has a high and low pulse setting. no ac frequency adjustment. pedal has the current control knobs on it (min and max).
i find pulse to be very handy on thin stainless and its a little annoying not to be able to adjust it.
But seriously, AC Freq (the wider the range the better), AC Balance (typically ± 30% from 50% is generally acceptable but the wider the better as well), and reliable HF start.
AC + DC "mixed" as some call it seems great IMO, if it is on a reliable machine. If set up properly, it would be a very good "mimic" to welding with pure DCEN with Argon instead of Helium, and not suffering from a dirty puddle.
Chasing features is a fools errand. About the only truly functional features the average welder needs (AC TIG) is: frequency adjustment 30hz-200hz, pulse, and adjustable pre- and post flow. Everything else is either lipstick on a pig, or required by very specialized code work.
The only “nice to have feature” I’d buy a TIG welder with would be independently adjustable EN/EP for specialty work.
The only “nice to have feature” I’d buy a TIG welder with would be independently adjustable EN/EP for specialty work.
I know some folks like simplified machines, but I like to have as many features as possible so they are there to make my life easier when I need them (or at least when I think I need them). Must haves: HF start, AC balance with bare minimum 70/30% ranges, pulse with at least 0.5-60 pps, pulse background amps and on time at least 10/90% of ranges, AC freq at least 60-120Hz range, 2T/4T and down slope for switch work, and post flow. But that's about it.
AC wave forms have come along way recently, and I can see benefit there for process control in production environments. EN/EP amplitude control and mixed waveforms really have unlimited possibilities. Some are probably quite useful, while others may be unnecessary. Hopefully some best practices can eventually be established for what is really necessary with these wave forms, though. Otherwise marketing departments can just run a muck with what they are selling people in regards to "new" wave form technology.
AC wave forms have come along way recently, and I can see benefit there for process control in production environments. EN/EP amplitude control and mixed waveforms really have unlimited possibilities. Some are probably quite useful, while others may be unnecessary. Hopefully some best practices can eventually be established for what is really necessary with these wave forms, though. Otherwise marketing departments can just run a muck with what they are selling people in regards to "new" wave form technology.
quite agree chasing features is a waste.
however these new welders are only hobby and light commercial machines, hence don't have the real fancy pro features.
i actually like the CK MT200 welder. its only got all the features you actually normally use. however its ludicrously overpriced.
the welder with mixed tig, i suspect they put that in as a draw card. the other brand machine has different wave forms instead but i don't see that as a feature i would use.
however these new welders are only hobby and light commercial machines, hence don't have the real fancy pro features.
i actually like the CK MT200 welder. its only got all the features you actually normally use. however its ludicrously overpriced.
the welder with mixed tig, i suspect they put that in as a draw card. the other brand machine has different wave forms instead but i don't see that as a feature i would use.
tweak it until it breaks
well i have a new machine sitting here.
to darn tired and my hands have swollen up a bit, to run it tonight.
hope to have a quick review of it over the weekend.
couple of annoying things, they are not selling the foot pedal that goes with it just yet. so i have to wait on that.
the tig torch looks like a no name unit. it has amp up/down buttons on it. don't know if thats going to work well as i don't normally hold it like that.
will have to work out how i can fit my old CK torch to it.
to darn tired and my hands have swollen up a bit, to run it tonight.
hope to have a quick review of it over the weekend.
couple of annoying things, they are not selling the foot pedal that goes with it just yet. so i have to wait on that.
the tig torch looks like a no name unit. it has amp up/down buttons on it. don't know if thats going to work well as i don't normally hold it like that.
will have to work out how i can fit my old CK torch to it.
tweak it until it breaks
mate, your going to have to wait. that work thing gets in the way of play.BillE.Dee wrote:well golly gee, tweake,,,you got me in suspenders,,,did ya get the mt200 ?? Have you driven it yet ?? HOw's it workin ???? HUH< HUH ???
i don't do much welding during summer as my hands are pretty shot from work.
didn't get the CK as its similar price to a high end unit i can get locally. USA machines are generally over priced.
tweak it until it breaks
small update.
had a quick play today with the new BOC Smootharc 200 ACDC machine.
had to the use the no name torch that came with it. it has amps up/down buttons built into it. unfortunately the start/stop button requires a death grip to use. so i kept cutting out all the time due to grip lessening. frankly the torch is rubbish and can't wait untill i can find some new plugs and gas fittings to fit the CK torch on to it.
had trouble with the balance setting. it has a weird range of numbers. tho i might fit a bigger cup and retry that.
theres a few other settings i have to tweak like start amps, pre flow. things my old one doesn't have.
didn't try the pulse settings, there is one setting called "duty cycle" that i have no idea what that means.
the arc ran well, if anything it seams hotter than i'm used to (for the amps indicated).
just waiting on foot pedal before i can give it a decent run.
had a quick play today with the new BOC Smootharc 200 ACDC machine.
had to the use the no name torch that came with it. it has amps up/down buttons built into it. unfortunately the start/stop button requires a death grip to use. so i kept cutting out all the time due to grip lessening. frankly the torch is rubbish and can't wait untill i can find some new plugs and gas fittings to fit the CK torch on to it.
had trouble with the balance setting. it has a weird range of numbers. tho i might fit a bigger cup and retry that.
theres a few other settings i have to tweak like start amps, pre flow. things my old one doesn't have.
didn't try the pulse settings, there is one setting called "duty cycle" that i have no idea what that means.
the arc ran well, if anything it seams hotter than i'm used to (for the amps indicated).
just waiting on foot pedal before i can give it a decent run.
tweak it until it breaks
For pulse, duty cycle is usually a time-based percentage. The relationship between frequency and period is:
f = 1/p
equivalently
p = 1/f.
duty cycle refers to the % of "on time" with respect to how long the period is, in seconds, for the higher portion of the pulse, the main welding current) . Example:
Frequency = 100Hz (100 PPS, same thing because Hertz is defined as 1/sec)
Period = 1/(100per sec) = 0.010 seconds. Therefore the period of the entire pulse waveform that repeats itself is 10 thousandths of a second.
If you set duty cycle to 25%, the welding current will be at the higher value for ¼ of 0.010s, or 0.0025 secs. The other percentage (75%, or 0.0075 sec)) the welding current will be at the "base" current (the lower value you set in the machine).
It could be possible that this is reversed on your machine, where you set the base current %, thereby defining the main current % in the process (it is always additive, summing to 100%), but the above is usually the case.
f = 1/p
equivalently
p = 1/f.
duty cycle refers to the % of "on time" with respect to how long the period is, in seconds, for the higher portion of the pulse, the main welding current) . Example:
Frequency = 100Hz (100 PPS, same thing because Hertz is defined as 1/sec)
Period = 1/(100per sec) = 0.010 seconds. Therefore the period of the entire pulse waveform that repeats itself is 10 thousandths of a second.
If you set duty cycle to 25%, the welding current will be at the higher value for ¼ of 0.010s, or 0.0025 secs. The other percentage (75%, or 0.0075 sec)) the welding current will be at the "base" current (the lower value you set in the machine).
It could be possible that this is reversed on your machine, where you set the base current %, thereby defining the main current % in the process (it is always additive, summing to 100%), but the above is usually the case.
Last edited by Oscar on Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
BillE.Dee
- BillE.Dee
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Location:Pennsylvania (Northeast corner)
sounds good tweake. I did look up that machine and seems pretty much like one that I have. Now you will have to start burning the midnight candle and relearn. Keep us posted on the learning experience. Good luck, have fun and stay safe.
Bill
Bill
quite right about learning.
theres a few new things to learn about. good thing is you have lots of control over the machine, downside is you need to remember what all those things do.
thats where the CK mt200 is quite good. it has enough features without going complicated. but for me to get one it would cost about double what i paid for this machine, and thats with CK at discount and this machine at full retail.
exchange rate sucks.
theres a few new things to learn about. good thing is you have lots of control over the machine, downside is you need to remember what all those things do.
thats where the CK mt200 is quite good. it has enough features without going complicated. but for me to get one it would cost about double what i paid for this machine, and thats with CK at discount and this machine at full retail.
exchange rate sucks.
tweak it until it breaks
Since I really never weld aluminum, pulse may be the only feature I might need. I am actually going to sell my Synchrowave because I do so little actual TIG welding for my projects and I have never had a project made with aluminum. Plus I have a spoolgun for my MIG.tweake wrote:just wondering what features are your must haves?
also what do you think of mixed tig (pulses ac then dcen) ?
Multimatic 255
no one is moving anywhere at the mo.BillE.Dee wrote:gee, tweake, might be cheaper to move. Don't come here --- the government is shutting the country down, one bar/restaurant at a time. What a crock !!!
thats by choice as much as it is by govt. doesn't matter what country.
everyone just needs to hunker down and let it pass.
welder availability is pretty good here for such a small country. a lot of brands available out of asia and europe.
tweak it until it breaks
TraditionalToolworks
- TraditionalToolworks
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Location:San Jose / Kelseyville
It's a cute little box, and the specs look good. Just did a quick google. 
Collector of old Iron!
Alan
Alan
just having a little play.
the mix tig is interesting. it was melting ok on thicker stuff.
the pulse is working on dc and ac.
using jodys "rule of 33" at the mo.
starts and stops are a bit of an issue that i'm head scratching on.
it doesn't start as nice as my old one. sounds like the HF is a bit weak. the old one was really strong, maybe this one is more normal.
not sure on the stop settings, it seams to keep running when the post flow is going.
the mix tig is interesting. it was melting ok on thicker stuff.
the pulse is working on dc and ac.
using jodys "rule of 33" at the mo.
starts and stops are a bit of an issue that i'm head scratching on.
it doesn't start as nice as my old one. sounds like the HF is a bit weak. the old one was really strong, maybe this one is more normal.
not sure on the stop settings, it seams to keep running when the post flow is going.
tweak it until it breaks
straching my head here on a few things.
the book is not great as per normal.
it has a hot start setting and then an arc starting setting.
however in stick mode the arc starting setting is active not the hot start.
also in the tech listing it refers to an arc strike current.
i'm thinking that the "hot start" is actually the arc strike current setting and the arc starting current is the hot start.
now what on earth is arc strike current and why would i want to adjust it? (it only adjust from 40-100amp)
the book is not great as per normal.
it has a hot start setting and then an arc starting setting.
however in stick mode the arc starting setting is active not the hot start.
also in the tech listing it refers to an arc strike current.
i'm thinking that the "hot start" is actually the arc strike current setting and the arc starting current is the hot start.
now what on earth is arc strike current and why would i want to adjust it? (it only adjust from 40-100amp)
tweak it until it breaks
TraditionalToolworks
- TraditionalToolworks
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Well, surprise, surprise, surprise...(to quote Gomer Pyle)tweake wrote:the book is not great as per normal.
It must be like arc force as most machines call it, or dig as miller calls it. However, it's odd that it's only active from 40-100 amps, it must have something to do with how the arc is initiated.tweake wrote:i'm thinking that the "hot start" is actually the arc strike current setting and the arc starting current is the hot start.
Does the machine do 6010? Just curious...
Collector of old Iron!
Alan
Alan
for stick it uses the "arc starting" setting. it also has an arc force setting.TraditionalToolworks wrote:Well, surprise, surprise, surprise...(to quote Gomer Pyle)tweake wrote:the book is not great as per normal.
It must be like arc force as most machines call it, or dig as miller calls it. However, it's odd that it's only active from 40-100 amps, it must have something to do with how the arc is initiated.tweake wrote:i'm thinking that the "hot start" is actually the arc strike current setting and the arc starting current is the hot start.
Does the machine do 6010? Just curious...
no idea on 6010, i highly doubt it. but hopefully i will find that out today. my other tig machine will not even run 6011. most machines i see state they don't run cellulose rods.
tweak it until it breaks
ok i burnt a few rods.
runs 6013 and 7016 fine as expected.
6011 runs nice. 6010 .....almost. it keeps cutting out ie the voltage is a tad low. thats typical of inverters. if anything its quite good as many won't run cellulose rods at all.
the surprise is that it also has AC for stick. sounds like about 50hz, freq not adjustable as far as i can tell.
it also disables the arc force and hot start on AC.
it ran 7016 on AC. so it could be handy for arc blow situations.
this thing as a LOT more features than BOC are advertising. which makes it quite good for the price.
runs 6013 and 7016 fine as expected.
6011 runs nice. 6010 .....almost. it keeps cutting out ie the voltage is a tad low. thats typical of inverters. if anything its quite good as many won't run cellulose rods at all.
the surprise is that it also has AC for stick. sounds like about 50hz, freq not adjustable as far as i can tell.
it also disables the arc force and hot start on AC.
it ran 7016 on AC. so it could be handy for arc blow situations.
this thing as a LOT more features than BOC are advertising. which makes it quite good for the price.
tweak it until it breaks