Beware, this is a long read with lots of questions from a newbie.
I'm trying to teach myself to TIG weld with less than spectacular results. I'm a pretty accomplished MIG welder (along with stick and Oxy-Acetylene from way back), but TIG is driving me crazy.
With MIG, heat requirements are pretty much a matter of looking up the proper settings for heat and wire speed, making slight adjustments to "dial it in"and adjusting travel speed as needed for the proper penetration and bead size. TIG welding, well lets just say its not as easy. Aside from the newbie problems of dipping the Tungsten into the puddle and hitting the Tungsten with the filler rod, I'm having a devil of a time trying to determine travel speed, and developing a proper "dabbing" technique when adding filler rod. I can do OK when laying down a bead without filler rod, and managed to do a decent lap joint or two when fusion welding, but add in the filer rod and it all seems to break down.
I seem to start out OK, but then things go downhill fast. I generally follow the rule of 1 AMP per .001" of thickness for steel, i.e. setting my welder for 125 AMPs for 1/8 material, then using the pedal to control the heat. No pulse, ramp up or down or any of the features that the machine is capable of (yet) just straight DC and .3 seconds pre flow and 5 seconds post flow for the gas (100% Argon). The problem is that when using filler rod, my beads are very inconsistent. Some area are obviously to cool and others to hot...not to mention having to stop so often to resharpen the tungsten.
Since I'm used to pulling a MIG bead, it was a little difficult learning to push the TIG bead. Also to me, it seemed much easier to "read" the bead when pulling a MIG bead vs pushing a TIG bead. Is there a rule of thumb that relates to what I'm seeing as far as puddle size vs travel speed? Also the majority of my puddle seems to be even with or slightly behind the Tungsten, but it I increase my torch angle, the arc wants to jump around. Does a "dirty" or dull Tungsten cause this?
I have no problem seeing the puddle, but the end of the Tungsten gets lost in the arc glare making it difficult if not impossible to judge the distance. If I darken my helmet to where I can see the end of the Tungsten, then I can't see the puddle, so I try to find a happy medium.
Once in a while I can get a bead running for more than an inch or two, but then the fingers on my torch hand start getting uncomfortably hot. I'm thinking this may be from the material itself rather than my grip (like a pencil).
I'm hoping to take a TIG class at the local community college this summer if they offer any, but for now, I'm stumped. Oh yea, one other thing, I've watched almost all of Jody's video's and still can't quite get the hang of it. They've definitely helped a lot, but I think it's time for some personal instruction in a class.
In the meantime any hints will be greatly appreciated.
If your fingers are getting hot, it sounds like you're pointing the torch toward the feed hand, and the torch should be aimed at the part. Think of the torch as shooting out a flame. If you were soldering a piece of copper, you would not aim the torch at the tubing at a 45. You'd aim it straight where you wanted the heat to go. Same applies, possibly more so with the electric arc.
You can practice the feed and speed technique without any arc at all.. No helmet, no gear, no power to the welder. If coordinating all those motions is tricky to you, then try it without the welder on till you get the basic motions down. Assuming you're welding on a flat level surface, keep the torch vertical and bring the filler in at a very low angle to the table. Don't aim the filler in from way above.
Visibility... : I use a old-school lens in my helmet, no electronic bs. The lenses are more like camera lenses vs lcd which is a cloudy mess (imo). There are nice lcds, yes. But most people don't buy them, and the view in my non-lcd lens is so nice, I could read a newspaper 6" from the arc, while still having the tungsten clearly visible.
Heat and speed: Depends on a lot of things really. How thick the material, how large the part sinking heat away, how close the arc, what type of material, etc. Here, experience is the best teacher and the part will tell you if you're too hot or not hot enough. As to speed, if you're just starting out, almost certainly you're going too slow. Possibly way too slow.
What torch, what cup, what gas rate, all these things can make big differences, and if you've got 6 things not quite right on, they add up to rather a lot of ugly welds.
You can practice the feed and speed technique without any arc at all.. No helmet, no gear, no power to the welder. If coordinating all those motions is tricky to you, then try it without the welder on till you get the basic motions down. Assuming you're welding on a flat level surface, keep the torch vertical and bring the filler in at a very low angle to the table. Don't aim the filler in from way above.
Visibility... : I use a old-school lens in my helmet, no electronic bs. The lenses are more like camera lenses vs lcd which is a cloudy mess (imo). There are nice lcds, yes. But most people don't buy them, and the view in my non-lcd lens is so nice, I could read a newspaper 6" from the arc, while still having the tungsten clearly visible.
Heat and speed: Depends on a lot of things really. How thick the material, how large the part sinking heat away, how close the arc, what type of material, etc. Here, experience is the best teacher and the part will tell you if you're too hot or not hot enough. As to speed, if you're just starting out, almost certainly you're going too slow. Possibly way too slow.
What torch, what cup, what gas rate, all these things can make big differences, and if you've got 6 things not quite right on, they add up to rather a lot of ugly welds.
Here's a few pics of my better attempts:
Best fusion weld to date:
Best bead with filler rod to date:
Attempts at welding Aluminum:
Best fusion weld to date:
- 20200522_175558[1].jpg (43.17 KiB) Viewed 983 times
- 20200522_175602[1].jpg (32.77 KiB) Viewed 983 times
- 20200522_175607[1].jpg (53.48 KiB) Viewed 983 times
Last edited by Tim8888 on Thu May 28, 2020 2:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Definitely depends on the quality of the hood, as you alluded to. When I shifted to auto darkening hoods several years ago, I kept buying the cheaper hoods...usually $100 or less and they had fairly poor visibility, but I didn't quite know that at the time. Finally upgraded to a high-quality Lincoln Viking 3350 auto darkening, and there's no comparison in quality of visibility. It's outstanding and could certainly read a newspaper with it as you mentioned, but I've never tried and probably won'tBugHunter wrote: Visibility... : I use a old-school lens in my helmet, no electronic bs. The lenses are more like camera lenses vs lcd which is a cloudy mess (imo). There are nice lcds, yes. But most people don't buy them, and the view in my non-lcd lens is so nice, I could read a newspaper 6" from the arc, while still having the tungsten clearly visible.
. Also shows a lot more colors than any other helmet I've owned (fixed shade or auto darkening) and that helps quite a bit too.If you can't see the puddle well, you won't weld well. Regardless of the process. If your material is .125 and amps are 125, then you are at the limit of the heat range, so pedal management is needed. You didn't mention tungsten and filler size, nor cup size.
For that fillet weld, a 3/32 tungsten and filler are perfect. Realize, every time you introduce filler into the puddle, the puddle cools. So you must loiter then move, add filler, loiter, move. As you move, you might notice a slight keyhole at the leading edge of the puddle. Add filler then, not before. A gas lens and a #8 cup with 15CFH should work nicely.
One typical challenge for people learning TIG is to remember to keep the weight off your hands and forearms so they both slide comfortably along. Smolders, arms, hands, fingers all need to be super soft and slack. This allows your fine motor control to advance without tension. It can also cure "hot hands" because you're so lightly gripping things that you don't accumulate heat into your own digits.
Another trick is to "back step" when you add filler. Arc on leading edge, keyhole formed, moved the arc backwards to rear of puddle, add filler, then move forward and push the puddle, pause, back step, add filler, move forward. This can help manage fouling the tungsten, adding appropriate filler, and evening out your travel speed.
(Your picture links didn't show for me??)
For that fillet weld, a 3/32 tungsten and filler are perfect. Realize, every time you introduce filler into the puddle, the puddle cools. So you must loiter then move, add filler, loiter, move. As you move, you might notice a slight keyhole at the leading edge of the puddle. Add filler then, not before. A gas lens and a #8 cup with 15CFH should work nicely.
One typical challenge for people learning TIG is to remember to keep the weight off your hands and forearms so they both slide comfortably along. Smolders, arms, hands, fingers all need to be super soft and slack. This allows your fine motor control to advance without tension. It can also cure "hot hands" because you're so lightly gripping things that you don't accumulate heat into your own digits.
Another trick is to "back step" when you add filler. Arc on leading edge, keyhole formed, moved the arc backwards to rear of puddle, add filler, then move forward and push the puddle, pause, back step, add filler, move forward. This can help manage fouling the tungsten, adding appropriate filler, and evening out your travel speed.
(Your picture links didn't show for me??)
So I just started tiggin' 3 or so weeks ago. I can relate with some of the things you said...
Fingers getting hot - I'm thinking you're talking about the torch hand. You watch the videos on line and they've got their fingers all wrapped around the head of the torch and you can't do that without getting very uncomfortable. Clue - They're using a water cooled torch. With air cooled torch you have to hold by the barrel/handle. You can do like you see on line for the first weld or two... then it's a no go - too hot!
Run the argon @ ~20CFH. Yeah, I know what you saw/heard on line. I saw it and heard it too. But while you're learning more flow is better. You can dial it back once you get the hang of it.
Stick the electrode out where you can see it. In part that's what the extra gas flow will help overcome.If you can not see the arc/electrode tip you have the wrong helmet/lens(s). I'm so blind I weld by brail - but I can see the electrode tip when I'm welding.
Oh Yeah... and when you're practicing... Do one of several things with your practice material. #1 Have lots of them #2 if you don't have lots of them then quench the pieces either with air or water(water is faster) often. The weld pattern/requirements change as the piece heats up. Once you get the hang of it it's not a big deal. But in the beginning you'll wonder why one time you can lay a decent bead and the next you're blowing in holes in boiler plate! HEAT!
A lot of what is in your post will be cured by helmet time.
Fingers getting hot - I'm thinking you're talking about the torch hand. You watch the videos on line and they've got their fingers all wrapped around the head of the torch and you can't do that without getting very uncomfortable. Clue - They're using a water cooled torch. With air cooled torch you have to hold by the barrel/handle. You can do like you see on line for the first weld or two... then it's a no go - too hot!
Run the argon @ ~20CFH. Yeah, I know what you saw/heard on line. I saw it and heard it too. But while you're learning more flow is better. You can dial it back once you get the hang of it.
Stick the electrode out where you can see it. In part that's what the extra gas flow will help overcome.If you can not see the arc/electrode tip you have the wrong helmet/lens(s). I'm so blind I weld by brail - but I can see the electrode tip when I'm welding.
Oh Yeah... and when you're practicing... Do one of several things with your practice material. #1 Have lots of them #2 if you don't have lots of them then quench the pieces either with air or water(water is faster) often. The weld pattern/requirements change as the piece heats up. Once you get the hang of it it's not a big deal. But in the beginning you'll wonder why one time you can lay a decent bead and the next you're blowing in holes in boiler plate! HEAT!
A lot of what is in your post will be cured by helmet time.
"Another trick is to "back step" when you add filler. Arc on leading edge, keyhole formed, moved the arc backwards to rear of puddle, add filler, then move forward and push the puddle, pause, back step, add filler, move forward. This can help manage fouling the tungsten, adding appropriate filler, and evening out your travel speed."
THAT may be the key right there. Whenever I try to add filler 50% of the time I touch the tungsten. I'll have to try that soon. As far as the specifics, I was running a 3/32 tungsten (blue) and filler rod with a gas lens kit and a #6 cup.
I have no idea as to why the pictures show sometimes and sometimes they don't, or why they are truncated width wise. They are linked to Google photos. Maybe a moderator can step in and provide some guidance.
THAT may be the key right there. Whenever I try to add filler 50% of the time I touch the tungsten. I'll have to try that soon. As far as the specifics, I was running a 3/32 tungsten (blue) and filler rod with a gas lens kit and a #6 cup.
I have no idea as to why the pictures show sometimes and sometimes they don't, or why they are truncated width wise. They are linked to Google photos. Maybe a moderator can step in and provide some guidance.
Last edited by Tim8888 on Thu May 28, 2020 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May also be worth noting that it's not against any TIG laws to wear a thicker MIG/Stick glove on your torch hand when things get hot. I do it all the time when welding at higher amps and using an air cooled torch.DougW wrote:Fingers getting hot - I'm thinking you're talking about the torch hand. You watch the videos on line and they've got their fingers all wrapped around the head of the torch and you can't do that without getting very uncomfortable. Clue - They're using a water cooled torch. With air cooled torch you have to hold by the barrel/handle. You can do like you see on line for the first weld or two... then it's a no go - too hot!
TraditionalToolworks
- TraditionalToolworks
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It's because you uploaded them to a hosting site that you have logged in from your browser, so they show for you, but they do not show on this site for other people, they are not logged in from their browser.Tim8888 wrote:I have no idea as to why the pictures show sometimes and sometimes they don't
Try using the "Upload attachment" tab when you enter a message, to upload the image to this site. That will put the image here.
The alternative is learn how to use your computer and hosting service properly, there may be a way to do it, but this topic is a can of worms and most people don't understand how to use their computers well enough, so it's kind of fruitless to have the conversation in that regard.
Collector of old Iron!
Alan
Alan
"Run the argon @ ~20CFH. Yeah, I know what you saw/heard on line. I saw it and heard it too. But while you're learning more flow is better. You can dial it back once you get the hang of it."
Here's a good one, when I ran through my first tank of Argon in 2 hours I thought that seemed like a little quick...even for a 60CF tank. So when I went to have it refilled I stepped up to an 80CF tank. Well when I was setting the machine up for another practice session and was verifying the gas flow setting I just happened to look at the flow meter again. I had it set to 20 LPM! 2x the flow I needed! The CFM scale was on the other side of the gauge.
Here's a good one, when I ran through my first tank of Argon in 2 hours I thought that seemed like a little quick...even for a 60CF tank. So when I went to have it refilled I stepped up to an 80CF tank. Well when I was setting the machine up for another practice session and was verifying the gas flow setting I just happened to look at the flow meter again. I had it set to 20 LPM! 2x the flow I needed! The CFM scale was on the other side of the gauge.
TraditionalToolworks
- TraditionalToolworks
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On those images, they are showing now.
I'm no expert but your top image doesn't look too bad, but most likely too much heat as it's cloudy. Also set some post flow and tape off the heat to avoid that crater. Middle image I would say not enough heat. Bottom image pretty fugly, not very good gas coverage on several that look like burnt toast...
On the time, you will find there is some but not a lot of difference in 60 cu.ft. and 80 cu.ft. If you're using 20LPM it will amount to a very small amount of time. If you are using 10 cfh and have an 80 cu.ft. tank you will get approx. 8 hours. That will also amount to 2 hours difference between your 60/80 tanks. You need to count the pre and post flow that you have set also, it's all inclusive in gas usage.
Now that I've said too much most likely, take the advice from someone that really knows WTF they're doing!
I'm no expert but your top image doesn't look too bad, but most likely too much heat as it's cloudy. Also set some post flow and tape off the heat to avoid that crater. Middle image I would say not enough heat. Bottom image pretty fugly, not very good gas coverage on several that look like burnt toast...
Not exactly sure what size cup, but 20cfh would be used for using a lot of gas for a #8. If you want to save gas, move to a #5 cup and 10-12 cfh. If you use too much gas that can cause issues blowing it all over and creating turbulence that will result in contamination.Tim8888 wrote:"Run the argon @ ~20CFH. Yeah, I know what you saw/heard on line. I saw it and heard it too. But while you're learning more flow is better. You can dial it back once you get the hang of it."
Watch that meter carefully, some don't display it properly as you are finding out...make sure you have it set for CF. This is common for several of the older Everlast machines, they used to ship a regulator that was in LPM.Tim8888 wrote:Here's a good one, when I ran through my first tank of Argon in 2 hours I thought that seemed like a little quick...even for a 60CF tank. So when I went to have it refilled I stepped up to an 80CF tank. Well when I was setting the machine up for another practice session and was verifying the gas flow setting I just happened to look at the flow meter again. I had it set to 20 LPM! 2x the flow I needed! The CFM scale was on the other side of the gauge.
On the time, you will find there is some but not a lot of difference in 60 cu.ft. and 80 cu.ft. If you're using 20LPM it will amount to a very small amount of time. If you are using 10 cfh and have an 80 cu.ft. tank you will get approx. 8 hours. That will also amount to 2 hours difference between your 60/80 tanks. You need to count the pre and post flow that you have set also, it's all inclusive in gas usage.
Now that I've said too much most likely, take the advice from someone that really knows WTF they're doing!
Collector of old Iron!
Alan
Alan
*2 on the Viking 3350Spartan wrote:Definitely depends on the quality of the hood, as you alluded to. When I shifted to auto darkening hoods several years ago, I kept buying the cheaper hoods...usually $100 or less and they had fairly poor visibility, but I didn't quite know that at the time. Finally upgraded to a high-quality Lincoln Viking 3350 auto darkening, and there's no comparison in quality of visibility. It's outstanding and could certainly read a newspaper with it as you mentioned, but I've never tried and probably won'tBugHunter wrote: Visibility... : I use a old-school lens in my helmet, no electronic bs. The lenses are more like camera lenses vs lcd which is a cloudy mess (imo). There are nice lcds, yes. But most people don't buy them, and the view in my non-lcd lens is so nice, I could read a newspaper 6" from the arc, while still having the tungsten clearly visible.
I was using a 100.00 hood from Harbor Freight and I thought it was actually pretty good for my mig welding. It's like night n' day difference though. I think mine was ~250.00.
BillE.Dee
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Hello Tim,,,,I haven't noticed something in the posts so here it comes. TIG likes CLEAN...clean the mill scale off and then wipe with acetone or similar. Also, IF you can,,,get bigger coupons. Practice moving your torch with the machine off...also practice adding filler with the machine off and back stepping that way. Then practice running beads only ... then start adding filler. Don't forget to clean the material. Have fun.
gramps.
gramps.