Welding Tips and Tricks

As I picked up a couple boxes of Tig wire and a gas lens at the LWS today it occurred to me that while it's obvious there often can be a major quality difference between brands of SMAW electrodes due to the flux I really had no idea if that even remotely held true for Tig filler.

Has anyone here ever observed even a subtle but noticeable difference between two brands of the same spec wire? Would some ER70s2 for example wet in a little better and leave a smoother more consistent bead than some other ER70s2? I'm curious what others have experienced.

sbaker56 wrote:Has anyone here ever observed even a subtle but noticeable difference between two brands of the same spec wire? Would some ER70s2 for example wet in a little better and leave a smoother more consistent bead than some other ER70s2? I'm curious what others have experienced.

I try to stick with name brands, like Crown, Washington Alloy, Harris. I ordered some Harris filler not long ago and the Alu filler was made in Canada and the ER70S-2 was made in Italy. Sure beats made in China. Not that China is inferior, I try to avoid them when I can more out of boycotting them on general principal. Hard to avoid all Chinese product, but I hope that changes with this pandemic they released on the world.

There are only a few wire factories around the world drawing tig wire. A lot comes out of one factory so we don't need many. So therefore there is a lot of rebranding going on for the various suppliers. I know the factory in Italy does all the esab brands like esab, comweld etc. Also INE. Quality is all the same, you can download the conformance cert for the serial number on the packet or tube and check out the chemical composition.
Trouble is you can't believe a conformance cert coming out of bamboo land. Could be any sort of crap. I won't use it because of critical welds and I don't want to drop an xray. I know some that do use it and say it's ok and I know others who've had problems with it and stopped using it.

I've seen very dramatic differences in filler, but it also came with a commensurate difference in price. Worth it? Maybe in some situations where cost is no object, but otherwise, it's just horrifyingly overpriced (imho). Same holds true for smaw rods, mig wire, etc. Yes, there's nicer stuff, but gmab. It doesn't cost 10x as much to make a different alloy.

"sometimes" people feel that since they paid more--it's better. Leaky boots can cost $15 or they can also cost $225. Still hold the same water. However, I have found that filler rod bought in one place can be more troublesome than bought in other places and still have the same numbers on them.
sumting wong ... ??

BillE.Dee wrote:"sometimes" people feel that since they paid more--it's better. Leaky boots can cost $15 or they can also cost $225. Still hold the same water. However, I have found that filler rod bought in one place can be more troublesome than bought in other places and still have the same numbers on them.
sumting wong ... ??

i don't know how much leeway there is in the specs.
but also testing is only done so often, so with poor quality control they can get dud batches. some crowds will simply sell that off cheap or under a different name instead of trashing it.

but the other issue which plagues most construction type industries is fake products being slipped into the supply stream.
it can be even something as simple as welding shop buys in bulk and repackages to more useful sizes. advertises a good quality brand but its actually cheap crap from elsewhere.

If you pull up most data sheets they have range allowed to meet AWS composition requirements for a given material and then the typical composition of their filler, there ARE differences from manufacturer to manufacturer, that's objectively true. However if the small differences within the allowable range can affect performance or behavior in any detectable way whatsoever I don't know, which is why I really wanted to know what others have experienced.

As others have pointed out though, there really are two questions here, if for example all wire within the ranges to be called ER308L or ER70S-2 behaves exactly the same and if all the wire you can buy on ebay from china is even what it's supposed to be.

"Placebo effect", is definitely a factor and is why I wanted to ask the question rather than simply make the judgement myself. Personally it seems to me that my 1/8 ER70s6 blue demon wire doesn't wet in as nicely or leave as smooth and oxidation free bead as my Lincoln 3/32 ER70s6 or my 1/16 Harris ER70s2, but that could be entirely due to it being 1/8 and my heat and travel speed being suited for smaller wire.

I'm glad Crown Alloys is considered a name brand, I had ordered a pound of 312 stainless from them with my tig torch, and it was affordable enough I would've ordered a couple more pounds if I hadn't been unsure of the quality.

BillE.Dee wrote:"sometimes" people feel that since they paid more--it's better.

For me, price is not the only consideration. If I'm forced to buy 10 lbs. or even <gasp> 50 lbs. of filler, I'm unlikely to buy it unless I feel I'm going to be using it a lot. Otherwise 2-3 lbs. is a decent amount. Harris sells 3 lb. packs and sells quality filler, so that's one I favor. But I will say that I have bought a fair amount of filler from my LWS, they stock Washington Alloy mostly, some Harris.

I say it just all depends on how much one needs and how much it costs, I did order a 10 lb. box of 4943 not long ago from Baker Gas, as it was free shipping and $6.40/lb. Beats paying $15/lb for another brand. I think that was Hobart. 4 lbs. and I've paid the same.

I have enough filler now that I don't really need to buy more unless I run out of something. Gas is my main expense.

I never find myself buying the cheapest filler from China, nor do I buy the cheapest consumables, I tend to stick with CK Worldwide and other name brands. I like Lincoln for stick rod, I have a Martin-Wells and a Lenco stinger, Lincoln ground clamp, I crimp my own leads out of USA made welding cable. Lenco, Tweco or CK dinse connectors, depends what it's going on. I know I might seem cheap with my welders, but I tend to use quality consumables and filler/electrodes. That stuff is a small expense in comparison. I've never seen the advantage of saving the cost of a happy meal on $50 worth of consumables. Welders is a different story, but still, I am pretty certain I'll have a Miller one day.

I understand where you're coming from Alan. My grandpop always said,,,"If it happens once, maybe shame on you, happens twice, shame on you and happens the third time, shame on me." I like it right so I watch suppliers will work with anyone. I've also learned to take direction and advice from many and combine it. Some times my words aren't the right ones. That.'s one reason I"m in here.
Stay safe and keep the info coming.
gramps

I buy most all of my filler rod and mig wire from cyberweld. Though I will buy 11 lb boxes of filler at the local store as well. I always Sharpie marker on the box where they came from if they don't have a label so I know exactly where things were purchased. This would be good advice for the people who buy a lot of stick rods and grab them every time they're at a different store. It really sucks when used on the road you have no idea where something came from, good or bad.

And yes I hold a grudge. If you sold me crap once, you won't be selling me crap again.

TraditionalToolworks wrote: . Gas is my main expense.

Theres ways to save on gas of course. Unless the expense is not an inconvenience.

Gas can add up when you're tig welding outside, between that and the manual torch I've honestly gone through half a 330CF tank already

I did get out for a couple more hours today and run some beads with the 1/8 blue demon and 3/32 Lincoln, and I've noticed I seem to also get a bit of brown dust around the weld with the blue demon but little to none with the Lincoln. HOWEVER, wiping both rods down with alcohol I get a LOT more crap off the blue demon, while I might get a little black discoloration on the paper towel from the lincoln, I get dark black almost grease like streaks from the BD which as I don't always wipe my wire down may contribute a lot.

sbaker56 wrote:Gas can add up when you're tig welding outside, between that and the manual torch I've honestly gone through half a 330CF tank already

I did get out for a couple more hours today and run some beads with the 1/8 blue demon and 3/32 Lincoln, and I've noticed I seem to also get a bit of brown dust around the weld with the blue demon but little to none with the Lincoln. HOWEVER, wiping both rods down with alcohol I get a LOT more crap off the blue demon, while I might get a little black discoloration on the paper towel from the lincoln, I get dark black almost grease like streaks from the BD which as I don't always wipe my wire down may contribute a lot.

Always wipe down your filler rods. I learned that week 1 of TIG welding.

School administration wouldn't allow the instructor to keep a can of acetone or denatured alcohol around so I guess I never got into the habit because it wasn't an option in class, it does seem to make a difference though, really it's an adjustment just how clean EVERYTHING needs to be for optimal welds