Welding Tips and Tricks

Hi all

My Everlast 251si came with a chonky big Nova brand 26 torch. I am working on a part using 1/4in plate and tube and have been welding at 180amps. This is hobby stuff with very low duty cycle. Can I push a good 17 torch from 150 to 180 or is this bad news?

No space or budget for water cooled.

I do it all the time on a 200 amp Dynasty with a 17. I keep a bucket of cold water around to dunk the torch if I have lots of welding to do with limited breaks. Drop it in, pull it out, push the gas pedal to blow it out. Simple.

Ha - its a ‘water cooled torch’

Like I mentioned I don’t do big runs or high duty cycles so if Im not gonna melt or damage the torch by running a few 2” beads at 180-200amp, I like what I see from the CK 17 flex.

It will work, but it's going to get hot quickly. Sometimes the first sign of trouble will be when the tail cap melts and falls off...ask me how I know

I know you said no space or budget for water cooling, but I've seen folks build a water setup with nothing more than a 5 gallon bucket, soda fountain carbonator pump and a 20 series torch. Rather than a radiator you're just using the volume of water in the bucket as a heat sink and you can weld a long time before 5 gallons gets too hot. You could assemble the whole thing for around $150 including the torch. The lines and pump would go in the bucket after you dump the water so the total space is like adding a 5 gallon bucket to your shop.

I tried pushing air-cooled for quite some time and finally got frustrated with it, went water-cooled and I can't imagine going back (I do still use an air-cooled setup for some things).

I guess I'll still have the 26 torch so if I find I'm melting the 17 on short runs, can go back to the 26. To date I've welded mostly auto body type stuff with a max thickness of 12ga occasionally some 1/8 plate, but I'm working on some heavier parts for the first time - 1/4in plate and tube.

R-mm wrote:Hi all

My Everlast 251si came with a chonky big Nova brand 26 torch. I am working on a part using 1/4in plate and tube and have been welding at 180amps. This is hobby stuff with very low duty cycle. Can I push a good 17 torch from 150 to 180 or is this bad news?

No space or budget for water cooled.

A key word in that is a "good" torch. A lot of the off-brand torch manufacturers that push their stuff out of China seem to get quite cute these days with how they rate the torch relative to duty cycle. You can tell by looking at these torches and feeling the weight of them that they are often inferior, and I doubt they could handle the same "push" as the high quality torches that list their max amperage specs at 100% duty cycle. So just something to keep in mind. A 17 does not necessarily equal a 17.

Yup I hear you. Here's the one I want to 'push' - https://weldmongerstore.com/collections ... 1512hsf-fx

Spartan wrote: A key word in that is a "good" torch. A lot of the off-brand torch manufacturers that push their stuff out of China seem to get quite cute these days with how they rate the torch relative to duty cycle.

Air or water cooled, all CK torches are rated at 100% duty cycle. I didn't look at any of their specialty torches, but the hand series are.

I’ve run over 200 amps through a 17, it works. But it will get hot fast at the higher amps, you will know when your getting close to its limits when you can’t hold it with a tig glove on.

Yes, if you have a good name brand 17 like a CK worldwide, you can briefly exceed the rating fairly comfortably. but I would cap it at no more than 200 amps, and I'd assume about a 15% duty cycle at 200 and a 25% at 180 amps. that means for every 2 and a half minutes you weld, you MUST let it cool for around 7-8 minutes. Otherwise the heat will creep up on you and you'll find your torch starting to seize up or even melt.

G-ManBart wrote:I know you said no space or budget for water cooling, but I've seen folks build a water setup with nothing more than a 5 gallon bucket, soda fountain carbonator pump and a 20 series torch.

Can be done even cheaper.. It even works fine if you hook a line up to a water faucet and put the outlet to a drain.

The flow through the head is not terribly high anyway and if it's only needed once in a while then it's a perfectly fine setup.

If worried about water waste, catch the return water in a bucket and use it to water plants or similar..

Bye, Arno.

Thanks for the good discussion all
Ive ordered a CK 17 Flex and look forward to something more manageable than the 26.

I think you'll really like the 17 size on steel.
I've melted a few 26 torches on AC for aluminum, but DC I've had better luck running too hot without melting down.
Then I made a water cooler system from a new-old-stock carbonator and now I love water cooled torches

one thing that annoys me is tig/mig water coolers are expensive.......ridiculously expressive.
a pump, fan and radiator costs more than the welder

Well I got my 17 torch and cable (right) and then realized I totally forgot to think about the welder connection (left, from 26 torch). What do you all recommend?

tweake wrote:one thing that annoys me is tig/mig water coolers are expensive.......ridiculously expressive.
a pump, fan and radiator costs more than the welder

The name brand coolers certainly are ridiculously expensive. A few months ago I bought a welder with the plan to flip it after a few weeks (it was a great deal) and the cooler sprung a leak after two days. The replacement radiator is no longer available, so I bought one of the cheap imported coolers off eBay for under $300. It ran perfectly, put out a good flow and was actually quieter than the name brand machine it was replacing. I thought the price was pretty reasonable all things considered (included shipping).

R-mm wrote:Well I got my 17 torch and cable (right) and then realized I totally forgot to think about the welder connection (left, from 26 torch). What do you all recommend?

You're going to need an adapter. Arc-Zone.com has a pretty good selection of adapters when I've needed one in the past.

I think this is what I need. 1/2in dinse is what the Everlast has and 3/8in-24 is the connector on the 17 Torch line. Bummer it has such a long gas line, I only need 1-2'

https://www.arc-zone.com/safeloc-connec ... ath=5_2432&

Hmm maybe not looks like a quick connect on the gas.

there are adapters available to change over to quick connect for both water and gas. Make sure you get the CORRECT one. I know Arc Zone has them as I bought mine there OR you may find them from other supply companies online.

R-mm wrote:Hmm maybe not looks like a quick connect on the gas.

I would expect them to have an adapter that would accept the power pin, and have a quick connect gas fitting (Everlast uses 9mm size on all the machines I'm aware of). There is an adapter for a RH 5/8" gas fitting to work on a 9mm quick connect:

https://www.arc-zone.com/quick-release- ... 13_673_682&

G-ManBart wrote:

R-mm wrote:Hmm maybe not looks like a quick connect on the gas.

I would expect them to have an adapter that would accept the power pin, and have a quick connect gas fitting (Everlast uses 9mm size on all the machines I'm aware of). There is an adapter for a RH 5/8" gas fitting to work on a 9mm quick connect:

https://www.arc-zone.com/quick-release- ... 13_673_682&

Precisely right, I ordered one today after calling Arc Zone.