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Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:18 pm
by Kodokan
Already posted in the Introduction Forum. Have a new Lincoln Precision 225 TIG. Almost zero welding experience. Time limited by terminal cancer. Ready to get going and melt some metal.
Could use some advice on where to spend my money, and how to make beautiful welds.
Need an Argon tank. Weldfabulous.com looks good. $284 for a full 80cf tank delivered.
My local AirGas wanted almost $400, and charges around $60 for a full tank refill/exchange.
Is $284 reasonable? Ready to pull the trigger on the new tank. Hoping it's a tank I can exchange.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:31 pm
by Kodokan
Just learned the welding term "coupons".
2 of my welding projects could use .125" aluminum, or slightly thinner.
Weldmetalsonline.com has 2x4" coupons for $1.00 ea or 2x8" for $2 ea. Ready to get maybe $40 worth.
Reasonable?
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:44 pm
by Louie1961
I wouldn't buy a bottle if I was in your situation. I would call my local welding supply company and lease a tank, the largest they have. It will save you time chasing refills. and the cost to lease a tank is usually less than $100/year. Plus when you pass, your family can just return the tank. My welding supply (Maine Oxy) actually delivers gas to my home, further saving me time and trouble.
On the coupons, I think those are definitely a good buy. I mean, not to be morose, but if you have terminal cancer do you want to spend time prepping coupons to save a few bucks or would you rather spend that time welding?
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:51 pm
by Gdarc21
Yeah defintley Get a big tank if you are practising. Those little tanks go in a day.
The tig setup you have is fine to get started but I would look at a gas lens kit.
I would only suggest weldmonger cause they are all that Ive tried from the states. And they are good to thier customers.
They have stubby gas lens kit for 17 torch that has all you need for about 80 bucks (ck gear at that) or so and would be better than chasing these up from the internet.
You will need argon for TIG and 25/75 for mig,(unless mig on aluminium, but if you can tig dont bother to alu mig just yet)
I know it seems obvious but if the guy at the gas store is unsure you may get misled.
Having been to a few "Send offs" lately I think it really cool that someones learning something new and punching this diesese in the face.
Good luck with it. Have some ventilation in workshop/garage as argo-lung sux and doesnt take take long to do if you are close and no ventalation. Not too much ventalation to blow gas away but you will work it out.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:57 pm
by Gdarc21
On coupons, that seems ok.
Try metalshops in your area aswell if you want, especially aluminium stainless machine shops.
They may have free bits..........and great tips.
But those coupons seem ok and aluminium is a dangerous bugger to cut without the right gear.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:17 am
by Kodokan
Thanks for the replies.
With regard to leasing a tank/delivery - I'll get specifics, but pretty sure it will cost way more than I want to spend. Prices are crazy, here in SoCal. Definitely a seller's market. Also, not many choices in my area. The welding shops/supply are mostly located in industrial areas.
Too bad, because the only choice I have now is to throw the tank in the back seat of my car. So, don't really want to go bigger than 80cf. Years ago, I threw the 80cf tank in the trunk of my S2000. AirGas dude said he shouldn't let me do it, but he did.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:28 am
by Kodokan
Haven't started looking at torch parts yet, but getting there.
Should get a decent helmet. Doubt I need anything fancy. Is a Lincoln 3350 an okay choice?
When I was in Jr High School metal shop, I was trying to stick weld. Couldn't see jack through the helmet. Lifted the helmet to see what I was doing. Woke up the next day blind! Couldn't see my hand in front of my face. Cleared up over the next couple of days.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:30 am
by BugHunter
Yes, that helmet is fine. Actually, better than 'fine'.
Cyberweld has cylinders as well. Grab one of these. Full of argon preferably.
https://store.cyberweld.com/cyltecingasc.html
That's a 60cf. For another $27, they have an 80cf.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:30 am
by Kodokan
Sorry if I'm going slow. I'm trying to search and choose the right stuff myself, instead of just asking what to buy. That way, I can learn about what's out there and what things cost.
Saw that beginners should start beads on steel because it's easier than aluminum. Also have some steel projects, so I'll grab some 1/16" carbon steel coupons, as well.
Also want to work with titanium and stainless, but will wait on coupons until I get some experience. Will probably need a second cylinder when I start back purging with argon.
Searched for metal supply stores in my area, and came up blank. Will keep looking, and order online for now.
Tungsten electrodes seem more complicated to figure out. Will search for electrodes for aluminum and electrodes for carbon steel.
Also looking at filler wire. Not sure what type of aluminum the coupons are. My projects are 6061 and 7020. Pretty sure I can use 4043 or 5356. 3/32" or 1/16" diameter for 1/8" coupons?
Guessing it's ER70S-6 filler wire for the carbon steel coupons. Not sure what diameter for 1/16" coupons. 1/16" filler wire?
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:35 pm
by Gdarc21
Morning, yeah research is always a good idea, titanium is a little ways off yet.
Aluminium filler I use is always 4043, I dont use 5000 series much, nothing wrong with it, I just dont.
Tungstens:
I use red for dc and now ceriated for ac. I get a small amount of arc wander from ceriated. Mind you I am about to experiement with 2% lanth for both.
You can get away with 1.6mm - 2.4mm tungstens for dc and ac. if you are at the higher end of the amp range for an electrode feel free to go up a size. There are tig setting apps and the miller one is ok, hobart one is good for filler reference also.
4043 3/32 is all I run for aluminium any smaller and you will have to move quicker than you are comfy with.
Er 70s-6 or er 70s-4 if the coupons are clean.
1/16" is a good size, if you can only get 3/32 then that will work too just a bit slower.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:50 pm
by tweake
Kodokan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:30 am
Sorry if I'm going slow. I'm trying to search and choose the right stuff myself, instead of just asking what to buy. That way, I can learn about what's out there and what things cost.
Saw that beginners should start beads on steel because it's easier than aluminum. Also have some steel projects, so I'll grab some 1/16" carbon steel coupons, as well.
Also want to work with titanium and stainless, but will wait on coupons until I get some experience. Will probably need a second cylinder when I start back purging with argon.
Searched for metal supply stores in my area, and came up blank. Will keep looking, and order online for now.
Tungsten electrodes seem more complicated to figure out. Will search for electrodes for aluminum and electrodes for carbon steel.
Also looking at filler wire. Not sure what type of aluminum the coupons are. My projects are 6061 and 7020. Pretty sure I can use 4043 or 5356. 3/32" or 1/16" diameter for 1/8" coupons?
Guessing it's ER70S-6 filler wire for the carbon steel coupons. Not sure what diameter for 1/16" coupons. 1/16" filler wire?
learn on thick coupons, ie 3/8 or bigger.
1/16" is well down the track. thin stuff is the hardest.
for back purging use a twin meter/outlet argon regulator. no need for 2nd tank.
tungsten, 2% Lanthanated will do everything. 3/32 covers a wide range of material sizes.
7 series alloy is often not weldable. leave that to the aerospace guys.
get 4043 and 5356 filler as that will do most of what you will do. 3/32 is a good all round size.
for steel get 3/32 filler to start with. 70s6 will do.
stainless, it depends a fair bit. by then your well into tig welding and it will depend a lot on what your welding.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:09 am
by sbaker56
Yes, learn on thicker 1/4"-3/8" coupons, get a nice quality gas lens stubby kit from jody, 3/32 lanthanated tungsten etc get a nice helmet like the Lincoln 3350, that would be a perfect choice, not to be morbid but you can't take it with you so while cheap on the important stufff now. Honestly, though let me just say F*** yeah on you tackling a new skill with terminal cancer. I originally turned to welding for reasons of depression of I have no right to compare to your issues, and the drive to get better odds stacked against me or not was the only thing to keep me going.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2021 2:27 am
by Kodokan
Thanks! The 80cf tank is $19 cheaper than I've seen it.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:24 pm
by Kodokan
tweake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:50 pmlearn on thick coupons, ie 3/8 or bigger.
1/16" is well down the track. thin stuff is the hardest
I'm sitting waiting at the doctor's office, so I don't have my reference. Pretty sure settings were high for 3/8, maybe 240 amps. Definitely over the 150 amp rating of my #17 torch.
Guessing I need a #26 torch for 3/8" steel?
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:27 pm
by Kodokan
Thickest steel on the OEM reference is 1/4". Amps are 250 for all types of welds.
Says in the owner's manual: output = 5-230 amps
Does this mean this TIG is only for thinner base metal?
Thanks for the tip on 2% lanthanated tungsten. I'll go with that for now.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:46 pm
by tweake
your not trying to do full penetration welds on 3/8 plate or weld 3/8 to 3/8. your simply trying to do beads on top of the plate.
if you try to pad beads on thin plate you will melt through really easily and warp the plate very quickly.
a good thick plate means it won't warp so much and you can run decent bead size over and over. trying to learn tig by doing tiny little beads on 1/16 will cause fits of rage.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:25 pm
by Kodokan
Thanks, tweake.
Okay, so I don't need to use that much voltage to practice beads on the thicker steel.
Will I need to go beyond 150 amps? Should I use a larger torch? How much amperage can I run through the #17?
Now looking for a folding welding/work table.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:15 pm
by tweake
your #17 will be fine.
been a long time since i've done steel, but say use 100 amps or so.
jody has plenty of vids on doing bead practise.
for a small table, i have the strong hand small fold up but there is cheap copies which frankly is just as good.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:15 pm
by noober99
[/quote]
learn on thick coupons, ie 3/8 or bigger.
1/16" is well down the track. thin stuff is the hardest.
[/quote]
So that's why I've been pulling my hair out? All I've learned on is 1/16.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:22 pm
by Poland308
I have run over 200 amps through a 17. It just gets hot fast. You will shorten the life but there disposable anyway.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:01 am
by Toggatug
I used to run a #17 @185 amps till the machine red lined. The torch will handle it. The question is will your hands.
Have a thermal pic from a while back the cup area was 300 F and the handle was anywhere from 100-200 F depending how close to the head it was. Even the cable reached 100 F.
You may want to try and find a used water-cooler or rig one together so you can weld as long as you want comfortably.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 3:39 pm
by Kodokan
Poland308 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:22 pm
I have run over 200 amps through a 17. It just gets hot fast. You will shorten the life but there disposable anyway.
Got it. I'll just go with the #17 for now.
If the torch gets too hot, I'll move up to a larger size.
Really would like to prevent stuff from melting when I don't want it to.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:45 pm
by Kodokan
tweake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:50 pm
7 series alloy is often not weldable. leave that to the aerospace guys.
One of the welding projects I have is a swingarm made from 7020 aluminum.
Need to patch it, probably with 6061. Thinking about 5356 filler rod.
Depending on my welding progress (and my cancer progress), I may only do the tack up, not the finish welding.
We shall see.
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 4:59 pm
by Kodokan
tweake wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:15 pm
for a small table, i have the strong hand small fold up but there is cheap copies which frankly is just as good.
First problem I have is NO free space in the garage. 6 motorcycles in the garage, 2 in the house.
I really like the DeWalt Folding Welding Table. The size is perfect for a motorcycle frame, and the size would make a great (general) work table. Downside is $239usd, and maybe the 3/4" hole size.
Will probably go with the Strong Hands small fold up, or a cheaper copy. Will be much easier to use until I make some space in the garage. Much smaller than the DeWalt.
Got a good shopping list going!
Re: Need Advice on First Setup
Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:01 pm
by Kodokan
Been reading about tungsten electrodes and tip grinders.
If my ultimate goal is masterclass-looking welds on thin metals, sounds like tungsten grinding is important.
It's painful to spend so much, but I think a Sharpie DX grinder is an investment I should make. I could save a little on the corded version.