Welding Tips and Tricks

OK, I'm really on a roll! Typical new guy I'm sure... hopefully not worse! I'm thinking this might be operator error, but not sure.

I've got an HTP invertig 221. This is my first attempt to use it - I used a lincoln squarewave in class months ago.

I fired up 1/16 electrode on .063" steel at 63 amps and ran a few beads a few inches long, with no filler. Gas at 20cfh, pre and post flow set. I went to do another one and the torch went POP and shot one spark kinda like a plasma cutter does if you don't start it right, and the machine beeped. I tried a few times with the same result and the machine responded by turning on the 'thermal switch' light, beeping and flashing "h.t. 6" in the amperage display.

It's weird, because I can't imagine it's overheated, and if I turn if off and back on it resets. However if I tired a few more times it would do it again.


I thought the tungsten was fine, but I reground it anyway, This did help, and I ran a few more beads, still no filler. I kept playing around with it and it started doing it again. I realized every time it did it, it was flashing "C. C." on the amps display.. This time it was intermittent as to whether it would strike an arc, or pop and beep. Sometimes it seemed like it started better if I held the torch further away.

This may all be something really dumb that I am doing.. but that's why I'm posting! Also, so I don't forget if I have to call HTP on monday...

I played around a little more... I literally think I was holding the electrode TOO CLOSE to the work. About a quarter inch away and it seems to start every time... an inverter thing, maybe?

Make the call. Don't mess with it anymore. If you are getting error codes it's most likely an internal problem.

HTP will always take your call, and help you out....
800-USA-WELD / 800-872-9353

good luck

John

Also, make sure all your torch parts are the right size and screwed on tightly

Good Luck

John

Thanks for the advice. Yup, I've got a new consumable kit and did double-check all that stuff.

I realized the "C.C." flashing is the same thing it does if the electrode contacts the work. I imagine it means "closed circuit" or something like that.

I wonder if it's something with the high frequency? I'll be calling them tomorrow.

Never hesitate to call HTP

Good Luck

John

Well, I think I've got it figured out. I was worried that it was some sort of common-sense operator error, and I think my gut was right on that.

I had the torch cable all coiled up just like it came out of the box, sitting right next to the welder, and also the plate I was welding on sitting right next to that.

I read this from a troubleshooting guide

Occasionally, cables are coiled like a garden hose. The coil becomes a giant inductor causing resistance that reduces starting energy. Inductance effects can also be caused by having welding power cables very close to grounded steel plates

Once I uncoiled the torch cable... no more issue! This may be a common-sense thing, and it sort of occurred to me, but not enough that I really thought to unwind the cable...

TTaylor wrote:Well, I think I've got it figured out. I was worried that it was some sort of common-sense operator error, and I think my gut was right on that.

I had the torch cable all coiled up just like it came out of the box, sitting right next to the welder, and also the plate I was welding on sitting right next to that.

I read this from a troubleshooting guide

Occasionally, cables are coiled like a garden hose. The coil becomes a giant inductor causing resistance that reduces starting energy. Inductance effects can also be caused by having welding power cables very close to grounded steel plates

Once I uncoiled the torch cable... no more issue! This may be a common-sense thing, and it sort of occurred to me, but not enough that I really thought to unwind the cable...

I wouldn't have thought to suggest that, even though I've experienced it. We've one machine (Miller SW250DX water-cooled) with a 25' torch and 50' extension for inner vessel work. If we use it for bench work, we still have to uncoil the whole length on the floor, or we have start problems, even in DC mode with HF start. I'll file your experience away with mine, and maybe I'll remember it next time this comes up.

Steve S

Yes, neither did HTP. They send me another welder, and as soon as I hooked it up, and had it doing the SAME thing.... It really narrowed things down. I think they may have thought about it, but it wasn't suggested. We all learned something, I think! Boy, did I feel dumb!

I am sending the other welder back and let them know my experience. I can't say too much about exactly what causes it, and may pertain to the particular machine. I googled "inductance effect in coiled welding cable" and turned up some discussions. Interesting stuff.

It's interesting that it would take a second, and then jump the gap, just like a spark plug, when it wound't start an arc. I think it had something to do with the technology of the inverter knowing something was wrong; interesting that it gave the 'grounded electrode' fault.

This very same thing happened many years ago, to a co-worker while building multi-million dollar flight simulators. My simulator was working fine, but my co-worker's simulator had all sorts of instrumentation fluctuations, etc. That crew worked on the problem for weeks, until one evening, I went over to their site and straightened out the coiled up cabling. The problem was solved instantly and everyone stood around wondering what happened. We put four of these simulators into the McDonnell Douglas facility in Long Beach, California.

TTaylor wrote:Well, I think I've got it figured out. I was worried that it was some sort of common-sense operator error, and I think my gut was right on that.
I had the torch cable all coiled up just like it came out of the box, sitting right next to the welder, and also the plate I was welding on sitting right next to that.
I read this from a troubleshooting guide

Occasionally, cables are coiled like a garden hose. The coil becomes a giant inductor causing resistance that reduces starting energy. Inductance effects can also be caused by having welding power cables very close to grounded steel plates

Once I uncoiled the torch cable... no more issue! This may be a common-sense thing, and it sort of occurred to me, but not enough that I really thought to unwind the cable...

Well, unfortunately, I don't think I've gotten to the root of the issue.

While uncoiling the torch seems to have made the symptom less frequent, I have realized that it still does this on occasion, in the same manner. It's always after I have stopped for at least enough time for the tungsten to cool and the fan on the welder to kick back to resting speed. I'll go to run a bead and "snap", I get one spark plug type spark and CC (short circuit) flashing on the machine. It doesn't happen nearly as often, but it still does it.

The interesting thing is HTP sent me another welder previously, and it was acting the same way. That was before I uncoiled the torch, so at that time, I thought that was entirely the issue. Now I am thinking it was only a contributing factor. I am wondering if it's possible that it's not the welder itself, at all.. Could it be the foot pedal?

The basic electronics videos that this guy posts, may help explain what is going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXGtE3X2k7Y

I like the humour that he puts into his tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Afrotechmods/videos

WerkSpace wrote:The basic electronics videos that this guy posts, may help explain what is going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXGtE3X2k7Y

I like the humour that he puts into his tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Afrotechmods/videos

Hmm. I'm not sure I get it, as far as how it applies.

The interesting thing is it seems like it's getting more frequent again. It actually did the spark thing and gave me the CC error right after I turned the machine on yesterday.

It just doesn't seem to make any sense. I've got a buddy with a synchrowave 250 and it sits right next to the grounded welding table, with the unused torch cable wrapped around the handles. The precision tig 225 I used at school never did this. Granted, neither of them are inverters.

The inductive effects of a coiled lead don't happen "only" at the torch. The other end (the control board) sees effects, too.

Don't be surprised if you've done some damage at the other end...

Just a thought...

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:The inductive effects of a coiled lead don't happen "only" at the torch. The other end (the control board) sees effects, too.

Don't be surprised if you've done some damage at the other end...

Just a thought...

Steve S

I guess so, who knows. Whatever it is, it has done it from the beginning. I don't know what to think really, being that it is acting the same way now and the cable isn't coiled up. Everything inside looks fine, nothing visibly fried. It will work fine with lift start. It doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with the welder itself, just the high frequency. Unless it's something to do with the torch / ground / foot pedal.

The welder thinks it has zero resistance between the positive and negative leads when it shoots that spark.


Here's a clip I had taken. This is of course with the cable still coiled up, you can see it. Looks like photobucket really cut the quality down... you can't actually see the first spark, but you can hear the snap.



Loo

I had read somewhere about checking for high frequency leaks in the dark. Well, I turned out all the lights and hit the pedal. Playing around, I noticed if I grab the torch head, I can see a purple haze. Also, grabbing the torch lead itself, it glows faintly though not so much so.

I can grab the lead and bring the other side of my hand to the grounded work and see a purple arc where my hand touches the work. I don't really feel it, but I can see it.

I don't know if that's normal.

Our Dynasty does this, but only when using pure tungsten. As long as you start again before the tungsten stops glowing, all is well. Otherwise, you have to wait until the post flow stops and the other values return to 0.