Welding Tips and Tricks

I know that limits me to mainly china crap.

Before you say “buy a used red or blue machine” let me say that around where I live people think that their TIG welders are made out of gold. If you are looking at a 3 year old $3k miller the asking price is going to be $2,750 without an argon bottle. People want $1000 for a 30 year old Idealarc the size of a refrigerator with a power consumption that drives you to the poor house.

Most often used TIG welders are used industrial machines, either 3PH or they don’t have a torch or any way to test them.
I have seen people ask more than new retail for some welders. Twice in the last 4 years I have seen Lincoln square wave 175’s for $1,500 and both were sold before I could look at them. And as much as I like red over blue, I don’t see people raving over them.

Trust me I have been scouring CL for 5 years now.

I have a spare truck worth at most $1,500 and whatever I sell it for will be my entire budget.

It is really hard to read thru all the crap on other forums about the different china machines. It seem like if an everlast arrives and it is not DOA right out of the box then people are happy with them but they still arrive DOA. Same with Eastwood rebranded ones. But at least they seem to have a stellar warranty on them.

Does anyone have any HONEST first had experience with a cheap TIG?

Do I need to give up on welding aluminum, or rob a few liquor stores?

I have a Everlast poweritig 255ext and I've been quite happy with it! It over your budget but the Everlast has a couple smaller units that are around that price. I really like the arc on mine and I would compare it any day to a dynast 200. Build quality seems to be pretty nice as well. I'm going to by one of there power I tig 200ts soon to replace a beat up miller maxstar that I have been using.

I forgot to mention that those thermal arc acdc machines are pretty nice. Two of my friends bought them for there first fore into welding. I only ran it on ac tig but it was pretty decent. I didn't like the pedal much though. It seemed to have lag when you hit it and when you tried to back off. Not terrible but noticable. Its something you'd get use to if it where your machine im sure.

We just got a PowerTIG 250ex on Wed and it welded beautifully. I haven't had a chance to wire in a new plug to weld with it out at school yet (my mom is convinced the only reason I stayed home for so long was because I was waiting for the welder to come in.... she's more right than not but not completely ). I'll let you know for sure after I weld with it some more, but it performed flawlessly welding aluminum.

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Shop outside Michigan unless you're buying old cars

There's always old Syncros and Idealarcs here in Chicago.

Anyways, for new, I've been pretty happy with my Everlast, albeit DC only. It arrived just fine. S/F....Ken M

The only open machine you've let breathe is an Everlast.

~John

I passed on an Exerlast because of the bad reviews. I would look at the Thermal Arc 186 if you want ac/dc tig. If it was just dc tig I would look at the Thermal Arc fabricator series. The Thermal Arc 181I is on sale for $699.

http://www.weldersupply.com/P/538/Th...Fabricator181i

rahtreelimbs wrote:I passed on an Exerlast because of the bad reviews. I would look at the Thermal Arc 186 if you want ac/dc tig. If it was just dc tig I would look at the Thermal Arc fabricator series. The Thermal Arc 181I is on sale for $699.

http://www.weldersupply.com/P/538/Th...Fabricator181i

I already have DC lift start TIG with my Lincoln MIG welder I would just need an argon tank.
I need to repair/fab some aluminum stuff.
they have an aluminum MIG at work but given the quality of the weld beads the maintance people do, I wouldn't let them touch anything of mine, and I would be afraid to use their machine because if there is ANY problem afterward it would be my fault.

I would love an HTC 221 but I wont have $2,500 and right now they are sold out.

I have been following the china welders for a long time and the general consensus seams to be that if they arrive working they stay working. there seems to be less DOA with Everlast than 5 years ago but it still happens.

I love Lincoln products, I took classes there but I am now making 1986 wages after being unemployed for a log time and I just don't have $3k for anything right now.

Isn't the HTC 221 a chinese welder also? Not saying anything bad. I know a guy who bought one there spool guns and it seemed really heavy duty and nice. I never got to play with it though.

Different brands and country of origin aside, You need to give yourself an honest evaluation of just what capabilities you need in a machine.

A good basic machine that only does 165A @ 30%duty cycle is a lot less expensive than one rated for 250A or with all the bells and whistles.

There's a bunch of people using cheap chinese machines that like them. But I don't think I'd want to count on one if I were trying to make a living with it.

So, what do you really need? then shop.

DSL power wrote:Isn't the HTC 221 a chinese welder also? Not saying anything bad. I know a guy who bought one there spool guns and it seemed really heavy duty and nice. I never got to play with it though.

The htp 221 is made in Italy, and is a awesome machine. I couuldnt afford a water cooled dynasty 200 and went with the htp. It welds just as nice as the dynasty's at work, but at a significant discount.

frederick flintstone,
Since you are using the machine as a hobbyist (I assume) I would recommend either a Miller Diversion 165/180 or the Thermal Arc 186. I own a Diversion I use in my personal garage, had it for 2 years now and have had no problems at all. I also take in out portably when the need arises. I have really "abused" the machine, meaning welded a lot with it and it is doing fine. I have tested the Thermal Arc 186 (now branded as Tweco) and was impressed with it as well. Both of these are around your price range and warrant a look. One reason I would go after the 186 is since they were rebranded and bought out by ESAB, you can get the Thermal Arc branded ones cheap right now.
Also there is a reason the Millers and Lincolns are commanding a premium. They hold their value extremely well. I am not saying those asking prices were fair/not fair, but you will be able to get more back in resale with red and blue than other brands.

yes, I am a hobbyist. but I will be welding 1/4 aluminum on occasion. I do repair other people junk on occasion as well. when I lived in the city I was "the guy who fixes things" now I am out in the sticks every farmer has an AC tombstone welder and booger welds everything themselves.

I do like the idea of being able to adjust ac balance for more or less cleaning. pre and post flow adjustments are nice but no necessary. a miller 165 (just outside of my budget) or a Hobart clone (in budget) does not have ac balance. do I need it? I do see myself repairing other people crap as I do now. it would be nice to have.
the last I looked the thermal arc branded machines were over $1500 as well.
as a Lincoln welding school alumnus I can buy most Lincolns for dealer cost from the factory the square wave 175 is in that money maters program and is not discounted.
even a factory reconditioned 175 is above budget.

I know you said you want new, but I think the trick to used is finding the stuff too big for most guys to want.

For example my tig is a 900 lb brute with no fancy anything - but amp range is 5 to 460 amps.
Welds thin aluminum as nicely as 1/4" aluminum. Those 165 to 180 class machines won't do that.

I see machines like mine average around $500-900 where I live.
Best bet cheap used are Airco 250 or 300, Dialarc 250HF, Miller 330 abp

Mine was $225...

MinnesotaDave wrote:I know you said you want new, but I think the trick to used is finding the stuff too big for most guys to want.

For example my tig is a 900 lb brute with no fancy anything - but amp range is 5 to 460 amps.
Welds thin aluminum as nicely as 1/4" aluminum. Those 165 to 180 class machines won't do that.

I see machines like mine average around $500-900 where I live.
Best bet cheap used are Airco 250 or 300, Dialarc 250HF, Miller 330 abp

Mine was $225...

image.jpg

around here, asking price for that would be $700-$1000 most likely with no torch or argon tank or both. I relalize there is a huge difference between asking and selling but I really don't want to drive an hour plus to look at something I cant test and find out the guy really thinks he is going to get his price for it because 30 years ago it was $4000.

when I lived in metro Detroit suburbs it was a different story. I upgraded my shop equipment all the time. but around here I seldom find used tools at a good price.

frederick flintstone wrote:when I lived in metro Detroit suburbs it was a different story. I upgraded my shop equipment all the time. but around here I seldom find used tools at a good price.

Do you still know someone over there? Maybe they could find something for you

frederick flintstone wrote:

MinnesotaDave wrote:I know you said you want new, but I think the trick to used is finding the stuff too big for most guys to want.

For example my tig is a 900 lb brute with no fancy anything - but amp range is 5 to 460 amps.
Welds thin aluminum as nicely as 1/4" aluminum. Those 165 to 180 class machines won't do that.

I see machines like mine average around $500-900 where I live.
Best bet cheap used are Airco 250 or 300, Dialarc 250HF, Miller 330 abp

Mine was $225...

image.jpg

around here, asking price for that would be $700-$1000 most likely with no torch or argon tank or both. I relalize there is a huge difference between asking and selling but I really don't want to drive an hour plus to look at something I cant test and find out the guy really thinks he is going to get his price for it because 30 years ago it was $4000.

when I lived in metro Detroit suburbs it was a different story. I upgraded my shop equipment all the time. but around here I seldom find used tools at a good price.

I understand your dilemma, but I regularly drive 2hrs+ to buy equipment to use or cars/trucks to fix and sell. Duluth MN is 2.5 hours and Minneapolis is 4 hrs. Both are also places I will drive to, about once a year.

A little driving to save big cash and get high quality stuff is ok by me

MinnesotaDave wrote:

A little driving to save big cash and get high quality stuff is ok by me

True.

frederick flintstone wrote: It is really hard to read thru all the crap on other forums about the different china machines. It seem like if an everlast arrives and it is not DOA right out of the box then people are happy with them but they still arrive DOA. Same with Eastwood rebranded ones. But at least they seem to have a stellar warranty on them.

I've ordered an eastwood tig 200 at the end of last month, and has of last night it might make a good door stop.
It will arc but no matter what you do it acts like it is running at about 10amps. I called them this morning and
am waiting to see how they handle it.

The eastwood tech returned my call about 2 hours after I called customer service. He thought the problem was a bad transformer. They issued a FedEx call tag and the broken tig200 was picked up the next day. They are suppose to be
shipping a new one once they receive the old one.

frederick flintstone wrote: It is really hard to read thru all the crap on other forums about the different china machines. It seem like if an everlast arrives and it is not DOA right out of the box then people are happy with them but they still arrive DOA. Same with Eastwood rebranded ones. But at least they seem to have a stellar warranty on them.

It's kinda like describing working with a lazy guy "when you can get him to work he's really good...."

May be true, but I wouldn't depend on him for anything important.

bass.warrior wrote:

frederick flintstone wrote: It is really hard to read thru all the crap on other forums about the different china machines. It seem like if an everlast arrives and it is not DOA right out of the box then people are happy with them but they still arrive DOA. Same with Eastwood rebranded ones. But at least they seem to have a stellar warranty on them.

I've ordered an eastwood tig 200 at the end of last month, and has of last night it might make a good door stop.
It will arc but no matter what you do it acts like it is running at about 10amps. I called them this morning and
am waiting to see how they handle it.

If you're running the foot pedal, make sure you set the front panel switch to "pedal" and not "panel". I used to have that machine.

most machine problems are operator induced

bass.warrior wrote:

frederick flintstone wrote: It is really hard to read thru all the crap on other forums about the different china machines. It seem like if an everlast arrives and it is not DOA right out of the box then people are happy with them but they still arrive DOA. Same with Eastwood rebranded ones. But at least they seem to have a stellar warranty on them.

I've ordered an eastwood tig 200 at the end of last month, and has of last night it might make a good door stop.
It will arc but no matter what you do it acts like it is running at about 10amps. I called them this morning and
am waiting to see how they handle it.

The eastwood tech returned my call about 2 hours after I called customer service. He thought the problem was a bad transformer. They issued a FedEx call tag and the broken tig200 was picked up the next day. They are suppose to be
shipping a new one once they receive the old one.

please keep me posted as to your experience with them.

any thoughts on the Hobart EZ TIG 165i?
is there any real difference between it at $1,400 and the miller diversion 165?
it seams pretty basic but it is within budget.
the eastwood 200A machine has a lot more controls and is 2/3rds the price but the Hobart is USA made.

Pretty much the same machine as the diversion, just different color.
I would think your best bet, for features vs. price would be a longevity or everlast.
2cents,
~John