[Drifta-X]

Ok so I got it mostly figured which tig machine I want, well can afford.
The everlast 210ext (wanted the larger version the 255 but not sold in Australia)
Now the thing I wonder atm is do I really need the differant wave form options?
That's the only thing that got me 2nd guessing atm, as I can get a welder that does everything else for much cheaper.
Any help would be appreciated

[Otto Nobedder]

I've never used a machine with advanced waveform features, so I can't tell you what the benefit is.

I can say, If they were "needs" rather than luxuries, many more of us would have them and discuss them here.

Hopefully someone can speak about the benefits before you make your decision, but after years of welding, no one has ever asked me what waveform I welded something with, or told me, "That would be better of you used sawtooth..."

Just some thoughts...

Steve S

[Drifta-X]

By saw tooth are you referring to triangle wave form?
U under stand the use of this type of waveform, and how it works, but no experiance using it.
Infact I have less then 1hr torch time doing ally.

The 210ext has, advanced square, sine, and soft square.
The 255 has those pluss triangle (sawtooth) for an extra 1k

[zank]

I think Steve's remark was a little tongue in cheek. Same as if he said "that would have been better if you used bunny ears."

[Otto Nobedder]

Yes, it was a little "tongue-in-cheek", but the point was, no weld I've ever done has been questioned on the basis of the waveform. In fact, the only time I've welded HFAC on a machine capable of multiple waveforms, it was a "borrow" from a very talented welder, who had it set for square-wave. My impression is for anything other than some sort of very advanced alloy welding I've never done, it's just not needed.

I'm still hoping someone with experience can comment on the value of (and more imoportantly, the purpose for) multiple waveform options. I might try a little research, just to satisfy my curiosity.

Steve S

[Drifta-X]

Cool cheers for that.

I know the triangle waveform limits heat input, but not much more sure other then that.
Oh. Square wave is what most inverter machines use I believe,
And the non inverter type are sine wave.

[Otto Nobedder]

...Square wave is what most inverter machines use I believe,
And the non inverter type are sine wave.

Not entirely true.

Newer transformer machines like the Miller Syncrowave 250/350DX and Lincoln PrecisionTIG 375 (and others) have electronic filtering to provide square-wave output, and options for pulse features.

Steve S

[rone350]

I preordered a 210ext in May it should be here tomorrow, I ordered it directly from Everlast and got a good deal for pre ordering it. My question is that when i talked with them on the phone they told me that their new model of the 210 is dual voltage, but i have not been able to find anybody talking about it you would think Everlast would announce it. Surely i cant be the only one lol

[Einar]

The Fronius user manual suggests sine wave is more quiet than square wave and triangle is between these.
Also that the square wave arc is the most stable and sine wave the least stable.
It does not mention any influence on heat input. If the current is RMS measured, there should be none.

If those are the only benefits, earplugs are the cheaper solution.

[coldman]

We were taught in school that square wave eliminates the need for full time HF which can cause frequency damage to electronic equipment, phones etc and I have heard of people being "blown off their feet" by HF lightning (not seen it myself). Your workshop structure and benches all need extensive earthing for protection. As soon as you go away from square wave, full time HF needs to be superimposed over the wave to keep the arc going. I believe there may be some personalised preferential benefits from altering the waveform from square, softer arc, smoother finish etc. but is it really worth it? Are we not getting the job done now with square?

[Bill Beauregard]

I've found it easier to narrow the heat affected zone, maintain a smooth steady arc, and control the balance between penetration, and cleaning with square wave. In aluminum this is most important. I believe most sine wave welders lack the adjustment of AC balance, and frequency. I'm not sure I see the value of four choices in wave shape. Square, or advanced square would be my choice.

[Legion]

The Fronius user manual suggests sine wave is more quiet than square wave and triangle is between these.
Also that the square wave arc is the most stable and sine wave the least stable.
It does not mention any influence on heat input. If the current is RMS measured, there should be none.

Here's what my Dynasty manual says:

Use advance squarewave when a more focused arc is required for better directional control. Use soft squarewave when a softer arc with a more fluid puddle is desired. Use sine wave to simulate a conventional power source. Use triangular waveshape when the effects of peak amperage with reduced overall heat input is required to help control distortion on thin materials.

[Otto Nobedder]

Legion,

I think that's the most useful post I've seen on this topic. That makes perfect sense.

Steve S

[GlenC]

With my Dynasty, I think I need a multi-page checklist, to remember how to set it for the material I'm going to weld! I'll even need a few post-it notes for Jody's tips!!

[GreinTime]

I thought with the Dynasty you could save multiple profiles?

[Bill Beauregard]

If you can save multiple profiles with a Dynasty I haven't learned how. A Dynasty, like a good camera can be simple, or complex as the user chooses. Mine has "pro set", an expert chosen group of parameters that will give you good results. If you were to only use pro set you have a Diversion with better duty cycle. I haven't tried triangle wave. It seems to me that pulse is a more effective means to that end. Sine wave might be a good aluminum choice for Dave, as it will behave almost as bad as his Airco he's accustomed to. Advanced square, and soft square are similar enough, having the choice seems like one more control to market to technophiles, (huh? that must be a word, spell check let it slide!)
I see great value in square wave for its tighter arc angle, better cleaning action, less distortion through a narrower HAZ. I can't figure out how I ever made do on aluminum without AC balance control. Pulse; the jury is still out whether it is a godsend or gadget. Frequency, I could live with 200 HZ fixed. 60 is too low.
I haven't got the accessory switch to try the sequencer, I can envision it in a production application where an expert can set it up for consistent welds, and leave with someone he picked up that morning at the halfway house making welds.

[MinnesotaDave]

If you can save multiple profiles with a Dynasty I haven't learned how. A Dynasty, like a good camera can be simple, or complex as the user chooses. Mine has "pro set", an expert chosen group of parameters that will give you good results. If you were to only use pro set you have a Diversion with better duty cycle. I haven't tried triangle wave. It seems to me that pulse is a more effective means to that end. Sine wave might be a good aluminum choice for Dave, as it will behave almost as bad as his Airco he's accustomed to. Advanced square, and soft square are similar enough, having the choice seems like one more control to market to technophiles, (huh? that must be a word, spell check let it slide!)
I see great value in square wave for its tighter arc angle, better cleaning action, less distortion through a narrower HAZ. I can't figure out how I ever made do on aluminum without AC balance control. Pulse; the jury is still out whether it is a godsend or gadget. Frequency, I could live with 200 HZ fixed. 60 is too low.
I haven't got the accessory switch to try the sequencer, I can envision it in a production application where an expert can set it up for consistent welds, and leave with someone he picked up that morning at the halfway house making welds.

Doh! Low blow man....low blow

Everyone knows the old Airco is the stud of the welding world

[GlenC]

The memory on the bigger Dynasty models 280DX and up just like the independent A/C map adjustment for EN/EP

[Bill Beauregard]

If you can save multiple profiles with a Dynasty I haven't learned how. A Dynasty, like a good camera can be simple, or complex as the user chooses. Mine has "pro set", an expert chosen group of parameters that will give you good results. If you were to only use pro set you have a Diversion with better duty cycle. I haven't tried triangle wave. It seems to me that pulse is a more effective means to that end. Sine wave might be a good aluminum choice for Dave, as it will behave almost as bad as his Airco he's accustomed to. Advanced square, and soft square are similar enough, having the choice seems like one more control to market to technophiles, (huh? that must be a word, spell check let it slide!)
I see great value in square wave for its tighter arc angle, better cleaning action, less distortion through a narrower HAZ. I can't figure out how I ever made do on aluminum without AC balance control. Pulse; the jury is still out whether it is a godsend or gadget. Frequency, I could live with 200 HZ fixed. 60 is too low.
I haven't got the accessory switch to try the sequencer, I can envision it in a production application where an expert can set it up for consistent welds, and leave with someone he picked up that morning at the halfway house making welds.

Doh! Low blow man....low blow

Everyone knows the old Airco is the stud of the welding world

Yeah, a legend, but not in its own time.