Welding Tips and Tricks

A while back, someone asked for more pictures of repairs we get into from time to time. I received a call from a customer who needed his two fuel tanks repaired and re-banded. Re-banding is a common repair of sorts that most shops get into, if they are willing to take them on that is. I thought I would show pics of these two as they represent some of the less glorious repairs weldors face. Both tanks had a hole in them from the strap wearing through. For any who do not know, re-banding allows the tanks to have a sacrificial surface, extending the life of the tanks. It also will keep corrosion from eating a hole into the tank prematurely. These "bands" were actually provided by the customer and I had to tack them on one side and roll them around by hand. One drawback of diesel tank repair is the diesel seems to always find its way to your tungsten. Clean them the best you can and weld them up.
I used the Diversion 180 on this and about killed it I don't think a repair like this is what Miller intended with this machine. I had it set in 180 amps and used all of it most of the time. Oh and if you have a 9 flex head on your 17 torch, don't expect it to last past one tank, ask me how I know
-Jonathan

More pics.

And more

This is a little bit of an aside, but this happened at the truck stop the other day.
I had a driver come in and ask if we could repair his fuel tank at work on Tuesday. I said I personally can if you can afford to wait, because we don't have the equipment here to weld it, but I do at home. But, its going to take a few hours to do after I get the tanks blocked off from one another and I'm going to have to completely empty the tank. His response: "Dude its like a 15 minute job, I'm a welder." My response: "Well you're clearly an idiot, and I just retracted my offer to fix it for you." The look on my managers face was priceless as he watched this exchange lol.
Moral of the story: Some people don't understand the inherent danger of welding something like a fuel tank.

Nice repair Jonathan - that was a mighty big hole in the second tank

GreinTime wrote:This is a little bit of an aside, but this happened at the truck stop the other day.
I had a driver come in and ask if we could repair his fuel tank at work on Tuesday. I said I personally can if you can afford to wait, because we don't have the equipment here to weld it, but I do at home. But, its going to take a few hours to do after I get the tanks blocked off from one another and I'm going to have to completely empty the tank. His response: "Dude its like a 15 minute job, I'm a welder." My response: "Well you're clearly an idiot, and I just retracted my offer to fix it for you." The look on my managers face was priceless as he watched this exchange lol.
Moral of the story: Some people don't understand the inherent danger of welding something like a fuel tank.

Great points you made there. And nice job Jonathan!

Dangers with welding tanks are well highlighted here, especially seeing the preparation that occurred:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DP5l9yYt-g

Looks good! When I worked in the oil fields when we were ask to weld on something, no matter what, you got a little nervous. I was on the back of a service rig and a guy was cutting a piece of metal off of the back of the rig and caught the rig on fire. Since it was covered in oil and paraffin that thing went up in smoke fast. They were throwing fire extinguishers at me yelling get off. After that, I am supper cautious about flammable material.

Here is what I get to do Thanksgiving morning. A good friend and customer called tonight and asked if I can get bands welded on for him. As tou can see it was leaking in several places and his temporary repairs were failing. I am leaving for Virginia to see the in laws so I only have tomorrow morning and night to get it done. Bad part is it was to late in the day to get bands sheared and rolled so I will have to cut strips out of sheet with a cut off wheel, not fun. Another example of the real life jobs we get to do. I actually don't mind doing bands, usually make VERY good money on them. Will get pics of finished product up when it's done.
-Jonathan

A cut off wheel is too slow for me - a skill saw or table saw will cut my aluminum every time

For smaller stuff its the wood cutting chop saw.

I could drive to the shop and use the plasma cutter but.....
-Jonathan

Hey,

Jono, could you give us a quick rundown on your tank cleaning/preparation steps? I know what people say, but I'm a nevous nelly 9n these things. Mick

Mick,
First let me take the time to say if one doesn't know what they are doing or is a beginner, PLEASE don't attempt to weld on fuel tanks. If you don't know what was in the tank, clean it properly and/or purge the tank with inert gas. Safety comes first.

Ok, I didn't do much for prep on this tank. I already know that it is a diesel tank and will not require purging. I used 3 cut off wheels to cut out the straps from 3003, .100 aluminium. For the edges I just very quickly took my 4.5" sanding pad and got the majority of the junk off where the welds will be. Remember, it's a fuel tank that will be nasty so aesthetics are not that important. I am also working on a holiday so it is what it is. The cleaning action does a decent job anyway. Since they were not rolled I had to put the bands on the "down and dirty" way. Also, I also had to splice two pieces together due to using what I already had in the garage. My "smokin hot wife" helped me get te bands on and rolled around and off to welding I went. I had to stop for Thanksgiving with the family and will finish the welding tonight. I really need a bigger machine. I have the Diversion 180 maxed out and it really taxes the machine. I am also using the CK Worldwide stubby pyrex gas saver kit at 10cfh. Oh and I am thankful for my TIG Finger!

Another option for cleaning is to use a white wheel to clean where the welds will be. This is better because it does not take off the material that the 36 grit sanding disk does but I already had the sanding set up on. Also, make absolutely sure the tank it vented. Even if you only have a very small weld or know that diesel will be fine it only takes two seconds to take the cap off or a line off. Also keep in mind, when we band tanks it is usually because the tank is leaking where the bands are and you are usually either patching the hole like I did on the first tank in this thread or using the band as the patch. With that said, if you are not confident that you can weld up a leak free tank don't attempt a tank band. Remember this is still fuel and the drivers have this thing called DOT and they don't take it to kindly if the fuel tanks leak.

And last, for those of you who have ever been asked to re-band or did it and was questioned about what you charge, here is what I tell my customers. Ask them what a new tank costs and how long did this tank last until you needed it repaired. Usually the answer is a couple thousand dollars and have had the tank for 10+ years. For a few hundred dollars I can band your tank and get you 10+ more years thus being the cost effective solution.
-Jonathan

Nice repair

Rick_H wrote:Nice repair

Hey Rick I appreciate that.

I forgot to mention, I used 3/32" 4943 filler and the strap in the picture I only use for tank banding or general use in the shop. The heat from tacking has very slightly melted some of the edges and I would never use it to hold a load on a vehicle. Just wanted to point that out.
Jonathan

Really nice looking work

Your diversion 180 is really putting in the overtime on those!

I've not tried the 4943 yet - how are you liking it so far?

Dave,
So far everything I have used it on has went really well. I have made several cast alum repairs, made a sustom alum sleeper cab (which I never shared pics of) and a lot of practice. It was used on the James Webb Space Telescope so it is space approved For this tank repair the 4943 worked better than the 4043 oddly enough. I am half way through my first 10 pould box so I guess I like it. Highly recommend 4943.
-Jonathan

Back filling or Purge Gas of tanks.

Due to the high volume a tank has, one method to back-fill with an inert gas is to use Dry Ice.

Get a 5 gallon bucket and affix a hose to the lid, put in your water and dry ice then slap on the lid, the gas can then be routed into your tank and it will be filled with CO2 a very cost effective way to accomplish this in cases where the back of the weld is not seen so using an alternative like CO2 is applicable.

Of course if you have a big hole then it will conflict with your argon on the front side so something to think about in utilizing this method.

Just my .02

Superiorwelding wrote:Dave,
So far everything I have used it on has went really well. I have made several cast alum repairs, made a sustom alum sleeper cab (which I never shared pics of) and a lot of practice. It was used on the James Webb Space Telescope so it is space approved For this tank repair the 4943 worked better than the 4043 oddly enough. I am half way through my first 10 pould box so I guess I like it. Highly recommend 4943.
-Jonathan

Soon as I run out of 4043 (about 10 lbs left) I'll order some up.

My LWS had not heard of 4943 until I asked them about it - they are pretty fast about getting on stuff once they know someone wants it.

My kid needs more practice....I'll tell him to burn up the old stuff