Welding Tips and Tricks

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:07 pm**

I've been doing some experimenting on my machine and wanted to share my findings in hopes that it might help some others. When I was in the process of deciding between the Dynasty 350 and Dynasty 280DX, one of the things that kept me coming back to the 350 was independently adjustable EN and EP amperage in AC. The 350 was a real reach for me financially though. When I heard that Miller was going to put out an expansion for the 280DX that implemented this feature, I decided to go with the 280DX and wait it out for the expansion.

First, a quick overview of what this feature actually is. Most weldors are familiar with balance and frequency adjustment. Balance is the percentage of time that the machine is on the EN or EP side of the wave during each cycle. Frequency is the number of cycles per second that the machine is cycling. So if you are running 75% EN balance and 120 Hz, the machine is spending 75% of the the time on the electrode negative side of the cycle and 25% of the time on the electrode positive side of the cycle and it's switching 120 times per second. By introducing independently adjustable EN and EP amperage, you can dial in the amps on each side of the wave. For instance, you might run 125 amps on the EN side and 100 amps on the EP side. The common approach and what most of the machine manufacturers recommend is running higher EN amps than EP amps to put more heat into the part for deeper penetration and less heat coming back into the tungsten.

When I got the expansion for my machine, I started off by going with Miller's suggestion. I started off with a ratio of 1.5/1.0 EN/EP. In other words, the EN amperage was 1.5 times greater than the EP amperage. The results were not what I was expecting or hoping for. I found I had to turn my balance down to get enough cleaning and that resulted in more tungsten degradation than I was used to (I was running a 3/32" 2% lanthanated). It got me thinking about what is actually going on during the EP cycle and what is really doing the cleaning. Did it have more to do with the amperage or the % balance? I started experimenting with running the EP amperage higher than the EN amperage to understand if it improved cleaning. I was really surprised to find that for my application, the amperage on the EP cycle played a more significant role in cleaning than the time (balance did). I started pushing the limits a bit, and went as high as a 1.0/1.5 EN/EP ratio and a balance of 85-90% EN. Yes, the EP amps were 1.5 times greater than the EN amps. I was able to go down to a 1/16" 2% lanthanated electrode ground to a sharp point. The resulting control was really shocking. It's been as close to feeling like running DC on steel as I've been able to dial in yet. I also found my restarts looked a little nicer and the etching zone was narrower and more faint. In my business, weld aesthetics sells. It really matters. I'm really happy with how the finished product is looking.

Here, I have my EP amps set at 280 amps and my EN amps set at 195 amps. Wave shape was advanced square wave for both EN and EP. My balance was set at 80-85% EN depending on the joint. Welding the sides of the tube goes a little nicer with a bit more cleaning compared to the deeper angles. Frequency was 250 Hz. Running a CK20 torch with a gas lens and #8 cup running at 18 CFH.

Here's the initial prep on the tungsten.

1/16" 2% lanthanated initial prep by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

Here's the tungsten after tacking the two front triangles.

1/16" 2% lanthanated after tacking by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

Tacked triangles.

tacked by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

Tungsten after welding out the front triangles. Now granted, this isn't a ton of welding. But I think it help up amazingly well.

1/16" 2% lanthanated after welding by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

Seat cluster by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

Bottom bracket by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

Head tube by Zanconato Custom Cycles, on Flickr

For reference, the head tube is 2" OD x 0.145" wall. The threaded bottom bracket shell is 1.75" OD by 0.160" wall. The three main tubes vary between 0.052" and 0.074" wall. Material is 7005 aluminum. Filler was 5183.

If you've made it this far, I hope you found the info useful. I'm going to keep experimenting with wave shape and I'll put up more info if people are interested.

I keep coming back to what Dave Powelson has typed quite a few times. There are an infinite number of ways to set up these inverters. I'll add to not get boxed in by the recommendations. Experiment a lot!

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:17 pm**

Great post Zank. Just because Miller can make a good piano doesn't mean they can play it.

Jody

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:22 pm**

Thanks boss! Just trying to share the knowledge.

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:31 pm**

Thanks
very informative and great pictures
Keep info coming

Pat on the back,nice work

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:20 pm**

exceptional post with great camera shots.

thanks

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:50 pm**

Zank you are very good well done . I follow and i hope I get close to your welding . One thing only ,what thickness of the welding
rod please ? ( diameter ).My machine is fronius who has a similar adjustment but not exactly different amperage . So i will use this and
i will try to see what happens (it is in the bottom line with the arrow ).
ESENTI ...

Posted: **Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:49 pm**

Zank,

That was very enlightening! I've never had a machine with those features, so it's new information to me. The reasoning you provide for your results makes a great deal of sense.

I look forward to further updates as you learn more about your machine and the results it can produce (and why!)

Steve S

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:36 am**

Thanks Zank for sharing such exact detail, the settings and the results of your experimentation.
My machine has similar features, but I never considered going so far into EP. This is really helpful
Thanks again
Trevor

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:56 am**

Very good post. I had been meaning to try similar settings on my HTP Invertig221, just never got around to doing so.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:31 am**

thanks Zank
i have a htp221 coming so i will be
following this closely

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:16 am**

Esenti, on your machine, you might want to try setting the offset at +20% as a starting point.

On the HTP 221, I'd probably try setting the EN at 70-80% as a starting point.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:35 am**

My pleasure guys. Please post your findings as well. These inverters are pretty amazing. We all need to learn from each other. Sometimes a solution to a problem requires going off the beaten path.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:05 am**

Zank;

You're killing me here! I want detail! What did the upgrade cost? Where did you buy it? How do I install it? Months ago when Terry (Shovelon) talked about the 350 with amplitude I started having buyer's remorse. I take it it is now available.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:03 am**

Bill, it's part number 301235. Retail is $499. Maine Oxy ordered it for me locally. It was brand new when I got it, so I couldn't find it online. The card goes in the SD slot and stays in.super easy. The other cool feature that I haven't really dug into yet is you can change the waveshape for each half. So, for example, you could have tri wave on EN and advanced square on EP.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:58 pm**

zank wrote:Bill, it's part number 301235. Retail is $499. Maine Oxy ordered it for me locally. It was brand new when I got it, so I couldn't find it online. The card goes in the SD slot and stays in.super easy. The other cool feature that I haven't really dug into yet is you can change the waveshape for each half. So, for example, you could have tri wave on EN and advanced square on EP.

If the big jolt of amps on the EP side is what is truly doing the oxide-breaking more so than the time-based balance shift, which based from your findings it indeed is, I'd suspect that using a triangular wave on the EP side to keep the amperage peak high, while lowering the overall heat back into the tungsten more so than an advanced square wave will help out just as much as using more EP:EN ratio and keeping the EN% balance up higher near 100% as much as possible. Think "area under the curve".

Amazing what lines of code will do in the real world. Just a bunch of 0's and 1's on a chip. Yet the results in reality are magnificent.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:31 pm**

Oscar wrote:
zank wrote:Bill, it's part number 301235. Retail is $499. Maine Oxy ordered it for me locally. It was brand new when I got it, so I couldn't find it online. The card goes in the SD slot and stays in.super easy. The other cool feature that I haven't really dug into yet is you can change the waveshape for each half. So, for example, you could have tri wave on EN and advanced square on EP.
If the big jolt of amps on the EP side is what is truly doing the oxide-breaking more so than the time-based balance shift, which based from your findings it indeed is, I'd suspect that using a triangular wave on the EP side to keep the amperage peak high, while lowering the overall heat back into the tungsten more so than an advanced square wave will help out just as much as using more EP:EN ratio and keeping the EN% balance up higher near 100% as much as possible. Think "area under the curve".

Amazing what lines of code will do in the real world. Just a bunch of 0's and 1's on a chip. Yet the results in reality are magnificent.

The wave form is also adjustable for each half??

While that is actually super cool.....Holy mother of crap! Imagine the Noob questions that are coming in another couple years.

When we tell them to list their settings before we can help, the list will be 50 items long!

Then after reading all that, and them trying 200 different combinations....
.....the problem will be they were running 75/25 gas the whole time and didn't check when told.....

I better go wax my Airco and give it a hug

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:55 pm**

MinnesotaDave wrote:
Oscar wrote:
zank wrote:Bill, it's part number 301235. Retail is $499. Maine Oxy ordered it for me locally. It was brand new when I got it, so I couldn't find it online. The card goes in the SD slot and stays in.super easy. The other cool feature that I haven't really dug into yet is you can change the waveshape for each half. So, for example, you could have tri wave on EN and advanced square on EP.
If the big jolt of amps on the EP side is what is truly doing the oxide-breaking more so than the time-based balance shift, which based from your findings it indeed is, I'd suspect that using a triangular wave on the EP side to keep the amperage peak high, while lowering the overall heat back into the tungsten more so than an advanced square wave will help out just as much as using more EP:EN ratio and keeping the EN% balance up higher near 100% as much as possible. Think "area under the curve".

Amazing what lines of code will do in the real world. Just a bunch of 0's and 1's on a chip. Yet the results in reality are magnificent.
The wave form is also adjustable for each half??

While that is actually super cool.....Holy mother of crap! Imagine the Noob questions that are coming in another couple years.

You'll need a lot of wax, and big arms. The Airco like a big woman gives a lot to love, and throws a lot of heat on a cold winter night.
When we tell them to list their settings before we can help, the list will be 50 items long!

Then after reading all that, and them trying 200 different combinations....
.....the problem will be they were running 75/25 gas the whole time and didn't check when told.....

I better go wax my Airco and give it a hug

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:04 pm**

MinnesotaDave wrote:The wave form is also adjustable for each half??

While that is actually super cool.....Holy mother of crap! Imagine the Noob questions that are coming in another couple years.

When we tell them to list their settings before we can help, the list will be 50 items long!

Then after reading all that, and them trying 200 different combinations....
.....the problem will be they were running 75/25 gas the whole time and didn't check when told.....

I better go wax my Airco and give it a hug

Yup, each half of the waveform shape can be set independently. Good thing noobs can't afford the software upgrade, let alone the machine.

If I ever buy another TIG, it will either be a 280DX, or a 350DX. Or a Stel (HTP) if they ever decide to give either one of those Miller's a run for their money. It would likely be $1500 cheaper. I can only dream

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:56 pm**

Wow, very cool indeed!!!
Don't want to buy the everlast 210ext quite as much now lol.
But think still be awesome first welder.

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:18 pm**

Bill Beauregard wrote: You'll need a lot of wax, and big arms. The Airco like a big woman gives a lot to love, and throws a lot of heat on a cold winter night.

Yep - I know a little about that "gives off a lot of heat" part

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:20 pm**

Oscar wrote:
Yup, each half of the waveform shape can be set independently. Good thing noobs can't afford the software upgrade, let alone the machine.

If I ever buy another TIG, it will either be a 280DX, or a 350DX. Or a Stel (HTP) if they ever decide to give either one of those Miller's a run for their money. It would likely be $1500 cheaper. I can only dream

I like Miller and Lincoln products just fine - but when the government outlaws my Airco for using too much power and being too simple to operate, HTP might get my order

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:35 pm**

zank,
I have been following this thread and first want to thank you for sharing what you have found and being so helpful to us all. I don't even know where to begin as far as questions. One of the first ones that came to my head is I wonder if the Lincoln Aspect 375 has this capability as well? My next question was already answered so far as being able to adjust different wave forms for both the EP and EN side. Correct me if I am wrong but since you have more amperage on the EP side shouldn't your electrode see more degradation with longer use that it does now? Looking at the sample welds (which I still don't like you for

) I see black smoke on the edges of the cleaned zone and a little in the weld itself. Is this from the material or the fact that there is to much cleaning action pulling impurities into the weld? Also, how in the world did that 1/16" tungsten hold up to that amperage? And I can go on and on

-Jonathan

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:28 pm**

Superiorwelding wrote:zank,
I have been following this thread and first want to thank you for sharing what you have found and being so helpful to us all. I don't even know where to begin as far as questions. One of the first ones that came to my head is I wonder if the Lincoln Aspect 375 has this capability as well? My next question was already answered so far as being able to adjust different wave forms for both the EP and EN side. Correct me if I am wrong but since you have more amperage on the EP side shouldn't your electrode see more degradation with longer use that it does now? Looking at the sample welds (which I still don't like you for ) I see black smoke on the edges of the cleaned zone and a little in the weld itself. Is this from the material or the fact that there is to much cleaning action pulling impurities into the weld? Also, how in the world did that 1/16" tungsten hold up to that amperage? And I can go on and on
-Jonathan

Jonathan the Aspect has the same features with the acceptation of splitting the wave, triangle one side square the other side etc. You can split he wave with the V310T but it has no adjustment of the EP EN beyond the balance.
When I was messing around with AC on the Aspect I was able to keep a darn near needle sharp 3/32" E3 tungsten at about 100 amps with a triangle wave but I never saved the settings. I was able to make about a 1/16" fillet on a 1/8" lap joint using 0.035 mig wire, wasn't pretty but I was amazed at the control you have over the arc.

Its hard to focus on experimenting with things and keep an eye on the shop and help the students at the same time. I'm looking forward to getting back to school and try Zank's settings. Thanks for starting this Zank!

John

Posted: **Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:54 pm**

MinnesotaDave wrote:
Oscar wrote:
Yup, each half of the waveform shape can be set independently. Good thing noobs can't afford the software upgrade, let alone the machine.

If I ever buy another TIG, it will either be a 280DX, or a 350DX. Or a Stel (HTP) if they ever decide to give either one of those Miller's a run for their money. It would likely be $1500 cheaper. I can only dream
I like Miller and Lincoln products just fine - but when the government outlaws my Airco for using too much power and being too simple to operate, HTP might get my order

Blasphemy!

Posted: **Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:42 am**

Few can weld like zank , so I declare fun and follower of Zank and i will start experimenting .Actually i have already did and seems there is a lot of improvement . There must be the perfect equation for each machine where you can achieve the perfect welding .Im Pleased so i want to dedicate you a poem of KAVAFI

Ithaka
As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:
you’ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.
(it means like goals , dedication and purpose in what you do .
True artist like poetry i think ...
ESENTI .

Welding Tips and Tricks

Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amperag

Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amperag

Re: Taking a different approach to independently adjustable

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp

Re: Taking a different approach to independent EN and EP amp