330 SS to carbon steel

Superiorwelding · Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:18 pm

I have a job tomorrow I would like feedback on from any who have welded on 330 SS. I am welding 330 SS to carbon steel and the customer said they welded the butt weld joint with 309 in the past. Having never welded 330 before I started doing some research. From what I have found 309 used as a filler will/can crack and the recommended filler for 330 is 312. Ok, I assume this is when 330 is welded to itself and upon further reading I see they recommend RA330-04 as a filler for 330 to carbon steel. Here is the problem, I have 3/32" 309, like the customer requested and anything else would need to be ordered and would be cost prohibitive for such a small job not to mention it is a rush job that will be finished tomorrow anyway. So will the 309 work ok? In the end this is what the customer called out and that is what he will get but when I questioned him he was unsure as he never did the welding. Anyone here have any thoughts or experience with this grade of SS?

http://www.rolledalloys.com/dotAsset/89 ... a65e14.pdf
http://www.rolledalloys.com/dotAsset/3c ... a15bdc.pdf
-Jonathan

Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:22 pm

Check to see if you can find 312 filler, or stick rods labeled as weldalls or maintenance rods. Might be able to find a small amount.

Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:05 pm

Jonathan,

Since the client has "proven" 309, I'd pre-heat the hell out of it (325-350*) and weld it with the lowest amperage possible, and post-heat it if practical. The client claims it's been done and expects you to do it that way, so give yourself the best chance for success you can.

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:46 pm

The only problem I have with any pre/post heat is the specs sheets clearly state no pre/post heat and want fast cooling to eliminate cracking. It also seems this SS and filler does not like to be constrained, which I don't think this joint is. I might have mis-spoke, I am getting mixed signals on joint configuration. I do know he machined a bevel.

I have never had reason to doubt this customer but again, this is new to me and I don't want expensive rework.
Thanks for the input this far!
-Jonathan

Wes917 · Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:55 pm

Here's an interesting read, maybe able to get some info here http://www.rolledalloys.com/dotAsset/30 ... c582c7.pdf

What about using an inconel wire?

Coldman · Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:15 pm

Hi Jonathan,
I have found two articles of interest:

This one discusses why 312 filler is likely to cause cracking http://files.aws.org/wj/2006/01/wj20060 ... 601-12.pdf

This one gives the right filler to use for 330 to carbon steel http://www.specialmetalswelding.com/pro ... h/fm82.pdf
You might be able to buy this in small quantity for guaranteed results.

Good luck!
Vic.

GreinTime · Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:32 pm

I have 312 filler wire! I can drive it over there for a fee tomorrow if it can wait til the afternoon

Braehill · Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:22 pm

I'm not speaking as an expert on 330 by no means, but I have welded it to Carbon steel. Everything I tried except ERNiCr-3 (82) rod cracked. I made one repair weld with 309 that held up in service. The repair was made on one of the welds that were made with 312. My first question would be what service temperature is the part going into. What is the size difference in the parts i.e. 330 part large and Carbon steel small, equal, or Carbon large and 330 small.

If you're going to preheat, only preheat the Carbon parts. Let it cool slowly also. Interpass temps should be below around 200*.

The parts I welded were fittings made of 330 and welded into a 10" 600# blank flange around 1.75" thick and over a foot round. I preheated the blank to around 250*. It's hard to get heat into the flange making a weld around a 1" fitting and keep the heat from being drawn away too fast, so it put a lot of stress on the weld.

Len

Superiorwelding · Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:08 am

That was some interesting reads. Thanks for everyone who posted them up. So they are saying not to use the 312 when welding 330 to itself. That makes sense given the article. I have learned a few things from this job and haven't even done it yet.
So from what I have read and learned so far I would have a few good fillers, 182, 82 and 309 only based off what the customer has specified. To get a small amount of Inconel would be hard and if I did find it, quite expensive.

Len you do bring up a good point. I have no idea what this part is used for nor how big/small anything is. I heard him mention high heat but am not sure. To make it even more confusing, he text me and said he is not entirely sure the material is 330. I guess he did this repair before and had another shop weld it up. This time he thinks he is using the SS drop that is supposed to be 330 but he can't be sure. What fun. I will get pics of it up tomorrow night and I might post pics of the welds, if it goes good.

Sam, thanks for offering to bring up the 312, I really appreciate that! This is what I love about this forum, we are willing to go above and beyond to help each other.
-Jonathan

GreinTime · Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:52 am

Don't let my dad fool you, he has high nickel rod at the house too! It's just a little harder for him to drive out there than it is me haha

Superiorwelding · Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:15 pm

Quick update. Here is what it looked like. There will be some time welding this one up. I have to fill in the groove to above flush and then it gets machined down. I love doing work for this guy, everything is ready. Eating my dinner and then it's out to the garage to listen to Pink Floyd "The Endless River" and get in the groove.
-Jonathan

Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:18 pm

Hell, Jonathan, spin that up about 60RPM and spray-arc it with MIG... Problem solved.

I laugh, but that might actually work with a complete gas shield. It would certainly even out the draw for a straight part.

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:32 pm

Steve,
You have no idea how much I want to do that! I am halfway there and spend more time waiting for it to cool than weld. Oh well.
-Jonathan

Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:51 pm

What, 350* max interpass temp?

Fun on a stick!

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:11 pm

Well, I was patiently doing the recommended 212* max interpass temp for 330 but my patience is wearing thin. I forgot the digital temperature thingy and all I have is a 200* and 450* temp stick so as long as it is not exceeding the 450* I am rocking along.
-Jonathan

Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:40 pm

Superiorwelding wrote:Well, I was patiently doing the recommended 212* max interpass temp for 330 but my patience is wearing thin. I forgot the digital temperature thingy and all I have is a 200* and 450* temp stick so as long as it is not exceeding the 450* I am rocking along.
-Jonathan

212* interpass is easy... pour water on it....

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:36 am

It's done. FINALLY. Seriously, I like these jobs, easy money. Now off to the machine shop and make those beautiful welds disappear. Ok, maybe not so beautiful but when they are getting cut off there is no need to make them "weldporn" status.

I love these copper "V" bases. I need the machine shop to make me more of them.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed. Everything went very well and not a hint of cracking.

Steve,
I was seriously tempted to throw this chunk out in the snow and cool it down.
-Jonathan

dave powelson · Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:20 am

How much indicated runout is on that shaft, to the end?

Coldman · Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:20 am

What did you end up using a filler?

Rick_H · Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:13 am

Looks good...I like the copper holding blocks!

Superiorwelding · Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:28 pm

Dave,
I had .027 runout. He allowed .125 on all dimensions so we were more than good!

Vic,
I used the 3/32" 309 rod. 10.5 sticks to be exact.

Rick,
Thanks very much. Not as good as you can do on SS but it will work.
-Jonathan

Wes917 · Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:32 pm

.125" runout, nice to have that large of leeway. Any NDT done on these besides VT?

Superiorwelding · Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:04 pm

Wes917 wrote:.125" runout, nice to have that large of leeway. Any NDT done on these besides VT?

As far as I know it has only been VT and the fact that the other one they did is still holding up. I hope this one does too.

I wouldn't mind doing a few of these a year. I would like to see destructive testing for this 330 using 309 verses inconel 82.

I should probably note here to anyone who looks this thread up in the future, I did this repair at the specific request of the customer. People can tell you all day long that I should have used another filler wire or I am going to get someone killed because I did it wrong. The customer is always right. When asked to do something very specifically, unless its a clear safety hazard, do what they want. 309 might not have been the correct filler and I lay no claim that it is. That's my disclaimer.
-Jonathan

Wes917 · Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:48 am

Superiorwelding wrote:Well, I was patiently doing the recommended 212* max interpass temp for 330 but my patience is wearing thin. I forgot the digital temperature thingy and all I have is a 200* and 450* temp stick so as long as it is not exceeding the 450* I am rocking along.
-Jonathan

We use these at pyrometers at work http://www.axner.com/fluke-digital-pyrometers.aspx beats the hell out of paint sticks, expensive up front, but if your doing things like this all the time it's the way to go.