Welding Tips and Tricks

I have this problem on certain things and I can't figure out what it is. Most of the time everything's good but on things like filling a hole or welding pipe to a flat surface I get a gray ball of weld when I add filler it's like putting a fork in a bowl of melted cheese and trying to pull it out it just sticks with it and makes a string of molten aluminum

toejam2889 wrote:I have this problem on certain things and I can't figure out what it is. Most of the time everything's good but on things like filling a hole or welding pipe to a flat surface I get a gray ball of weld when I add filler it's like putting a fork in a bowl of melted cheese and trying to pull it out it just sticks with it and makes a string of molten aluminum

Pics.

Need to see that...Johns right...pics!

Agreed a picture would clarify - but if the OP can get a clean weld on flat welds I would say it's a fair bet the problem is torch / filler rod angle so he's melting the end of the filler before it reaches the shielding gas envelope in difficult changing angles - so try larger cup - preferably a gas lens - check gas flow at least 15 CFH in still air then pay attention to angles.

noddybrian wrote:Agreed a picture would clarify - but if the OP can get a clean weld on flat welds I would say it's a fair bet the problem is torch / filler rod angle so he's melting the end of the filler before it reaches the shielding gas envelope in difficult changing angles - so try larger cup - preferably a gas lens - check gas flow at least 15 CFH in still air then pay attention to angles.

The OP is saying this is happening on Aluminum. I have seen Alum ball up on the rod with a bad torch angle but he saying it gets gooey and stringy like melted cheese. A picture of that would be hard to come by. I hope he comes back and explains a bit further.

Also trying to feed filler before the puddle is fully developed can cause this. Details on the welding parameters would give insight, as well as pics.

It sounds to me that he is keeping his filler rod too close to the action in between applying the filler, and / or holding the rod at too high an angle.

Maybe try holding the rod at a much lower angle, and withdrawing it a little further from the puddle in between dabs.

The idea is to keep the rod cool. it takes much less heat input to melt the filler rod than it does to form the puddle.

Trev

I'll try to get some pics.. It doesn't make any sense to me that I can make a good weld on almost anything then the next weld I lay down looks like a gray ball of snot. I'm starting to think it might be a gas leak in the torch if I hold it at a certain angle? I don't know I'll try to get you guys some pics

Just get us a photo of what the filler rod looks like immediately when it gives you this grief (sort of like a frozen moment).

We'll be able to work something out. I suspect it's dull gray and 'stringy' looking. Yes?

I think grey snot issues are about two factors, or maybe one: gas coverage. The arc is like Kriptonite to filler. Care must be taken to avoid heating the filler directly from the arc. Zapster said sneaking in from the side, or even from behind will reduce the heat on the filler. You want to keep the hot end in the gas plume, but not where it's real hot. Filler must be melted by contact with a very wet puddle.
Some shapes cause currents to suck in air to the cloud of shielding gas. If you are able to weld a nice bead on a flat surface, but it all goes $hitty filling a hole, doing an outside corner joint, or in my case a lap joint where fit is imperfect, look for gas cloud improvement. Often improved torch angle helps. I like to aim the torch at near right angles to the weld bead. I have seen experts lay it down more. Too flat is too flat, you lose penetration, invite gas issues, and overheat the filler.

For box joints, (outside corner) I clamp a piece of copper bar inside to dam the gas. Mine is ground to a rounded corner to leave a place for the filet inside. Flat large mating surfaces are my Nemesis, I sometimes reinforce a frame mounting point on sheet metal by adding a plate. I can't bring the torch directly at it, so gas swirls, mixing with air. For this I keep the arc aimed a little farther back on the wet puddle, avoiding it blowing gas into the gap.

Sometimes it's a matter of grabbing a bigger filler rod. Try 4943. A gas lens is nice sometimes.

Well said Bill!
With my limited aluminum tig experience I fight this all the time. Wish the gas cloud would be visible when heated...

Bill B: Thank you for a great post!! You have “filled in some gaps” for me. I have always avoided the issues the OP was talking about by doing exactly what Jody does in his GTAW aluminum videos; I keep the tungsten away from the filler by pulling it back as I bring the filler forward to the leading edge of the puddle. I was always aware of the fact that by using this technique I get a great result, but examining this problem helps me to understand they “why” parts.

I teach welding and do a lot of ‘custom training’ where I go out to companies and get their guys up to speed to pass various cert tests. The one big thing most of the guys screw up, and what I try to pound into my students, is exactly what you touch on in your post: angles, angles, angles. Both torch and filler rod. Don’t get lazy; which is a big problem and weakness of mine!

Thank you to everyone who provides such informative posts! The more years I am in welding and metal trades, the more I realize that I really don’t know squat!

toejam2889 wrote:I'll try to get some pics.. It doesn't make any sense to me that I can make a good weld on almost anything then the next weld I lay down looks like a gray ball of snot. I'm starting to think it might be a gas leak in the torch if I hold it at a certain angle? I don't know I'll try to get you guys some pics

I am new to TIG welding. If I do not allow the cleaning action to happen, or if I do not create a nice steady puddle, I get exactly what you are describing with my filler rod.

TRACKRANGER wrote:It sounds to me that he is keeping his filler rod too close to the action in between applying the filler, and / or holding the rod at too high an angle.

Maybe try holding the rod at a much lower angle, and withdrawing it a little further from the puddle in between dabs.

The idea is to keep the rod cool. it takes much less heat input to melt the filler rod than it does to form the puddle.

Trev

Also, keep an eye on your torch angle, if not already, try holding it more perpendicular to the job, so that arc is directed at the job and not directed at the filler rod at the side.

If I'm catching on fully, the OP has this problem on fillets, but not grooves.

This is very common in aluminum. It begins in initiating the puddle in a fillet (I believe the OP described pipe to plate). This is more complicated in a fillet than a groove, as the arc wants to jump from one side to the other. The challenge is getting the tungsten deep in the fillet until each side is molten, then the addition of filler is a "stab" as the tungsten is withdrawn a bit... Then the puddle is advanced , and held until the root of the fillet ties itself together, then another stab, lather rinse, repeat.

The usual cause of stringy, balled up, crapped up aluminum filler is trying to feed it too slowly. Get the puddle hot enough, shove it in there, and get out.

Steve S