[thorthemighty]

I realize this topic has been done many times by others, but everyone has their own preferences and opinions. I have researched and read reviews on many machines. I would love to just get a miller dynasty and call it a day, but that is out of my budget parameters, so I have narrowed my my choices down to 3, well really 4 but one choice is the same company and two different models.

Anyone who has any of these machines I would especially like to hear your assessment with pros and cons...here are my choices.

HTP Invertig 221 w/water cooler $2995.00
http://www.usaweld.com/TIG-WELDER-Inver ... 12.5-1.htm

Everlast 210EXT or 250Ex both are priced within $100 so for simplification with water cooler it's $2100
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/catalog-tig

And the new kid I can't find any reviews on is the Lincoln square wave 200 paired with an Acforce cool kit around $2500
total.
http://www.welders-direct.com/mm5/merch ... Code=l-tig
https://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main ... duce9pgm52

I own other welders and I own a small farm so I always have lots of things to repIr and build, I want to get into tig with a machine I can stretch and grow my skills with, that also would be reliable with good resale should I ever decide to be rid of it. I prefer new, so comments that I would be better suited to purchase a used Miller with all the bells and whistles is not what I am looking for.

I appreciate the help and thanks in advance.

Jeff

[Oscar]

There are no "cons" on the Invertig221 for the price that it sells for. It does exactly what it says it does, and very well---the rest is up to the operator. Is definitely a machine that you can continue to use as your skills increase, and then some.

That is quite the expensive water cooler. I just recently called HTP and asked if they had any water coolers that maybe had some cosmetic damage/refurbs/etc, and they offered me a demo unit cheaper than what one would usually sell for. Might be worth it to send an email to their customer service/sales email address and ask if there are any more.

FYI, that cooler is pretty much what HTP used to sell. The newer Arctic Chill coolers are very nice at less than half the price of that CoolKit kit.

That being said, I would still love to try a Miller Dynasty 210 or 280dx one day.

[soutthpaw]

You can get away without a cooler on a 200 amp machine if you are not running in a production setting a or doing a lot of long weld at max amps. The Lincoln you mention, was just released. So not many out there yet, there is a thread about them on welding web forum, One person just had there's give off magic smoke after 15 minutes welding, so that's one of the downsides of new models.
Personally, I think the AHP200x is the best value for money under $1000. I posted an extensive review here. (Full disclosure: I just became an authorized, stocking distributor of AHP machines)
HTP is a good machine also, so agree with Oscar. ESAB has some new machines hitting the market in the next month, the Thermal Arc 186 is another machine to a consider.
I've owned the Everlast Powertig 185 for a couple years. Simple and straight forward, lightweight and compact. If you don't need the extras, it's a robust machine.
I have a demo of the Everlast 250ex at the moment. Machine is nice, the torch and gas hose not so much. Everlast has a new line of torches coming out beginning of next year. Supposed to rival CK. Will be included in new machines next year. I may even stock a line of them if they live up to the claims Everlast has made.
I'll be doing some testing and hopefully get a couple demo torches out to some members I know and trust to post honest test reviews on welding web. I'll be cutting at least one of the heads apart to compare with a CK torch. Destructive testing is fun;)

[MosquitoMoto]

My own machine, a Metalmaster 215, is an adaptation of an Everlast design.

It's excellent. Will do anything I ask of it (as a newbie) and I have had very experienced welders try it out and love it.

However...the primary reason I bought this machine is a reason that Jody touches on often - go where the back up service is! I bought my machine because here in Oz the seller has an amazing service reputation, and he has lived up to that. Once you have the machine in your shop it is very good to know that any problem or question you have will be attended to promptly. There's a lot to be said for a 5 year warranty, too.

In short, it seems all the machines you're looking at are pretty good, so buy the one you know has the best service and parts back up.

My 2 cents.


Kym

[Poland308]

I think market price is probably a pretty good indicator of performance on an average. If everyone selling a machine is selling it for 1000$ than its probably pretty reliable and user friendly. No machine is a perfect fit for all welders or they'd be selling em by the truck load. Pick one in your price range with the features you want and it will work fine. Law of averages.

[rick9345]

Everlast 250EX 2yrs Replaced torch with ck 20 type FL230

[LtBadd]

You might also consider if the machine needs repair (warranty or otherwise) does it need to be shipped somewhere or is there a local welding supply that is authorized to do the work.

Richard

[thorthemighty]

There are no "cons" on the Invertig221

.....Snip....

That being said, I would still love to try a Miller Dynasty 210 or 280dx one day.

So far everything I've read reviews and YouTube backs up this claim, I even found a YouTube clip from a fella named Matt Pratt
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2XWlVVZk8Bs

Basically it's a look inside at the components, he obviously knows a thing or two about electronics and it sold me on build quality he has a few more one about the AHP 200 and another on one of Everlasts models for get which one but he was pretty critical of their quality of build and components.

Agreed I would love to afford a Miller...

How is HTPs customer service I have heard it's on par with millers.

[thorthemighty]

You can get away without a cooler on a 200 amp machine if you are not running in a production setting a or doing a lot of long weld at max amps. The Lincoln you mention, was just released. So not many out there yet, there is a thread about them on welding web forum, One person just had there's give off magic smoke after 15 minutes welding, so that's one of the downsides of new models.
Personally, I think the AHP200x is the best value for money under $1000. I posted an extensive review here. (Full disclosure: I just became an authorized, stocking distributor of AHP machines)
HTP is a good machine also, so agree with Oscar. ESAB has some new machines hitting the market in the next month, the Thermal Arc 186 is another machine to a consider.
I've owned the Everlast Powertig 185 for a couple years. Simple and straight forward, lightweight and compact. If you don't need the extras, it's a robust machine.
I have a demo of the Everlast 250ex at the moment. Machine is nice, the torch and gas hose not so much. Everlast has a new line of torches coming out beginning of next year. Supposed to rival CK. Will be included in new machines next year. I may even stock a line of them if they live up to the claims Everlast has made.
I'll be doing some testing and hopefully get a couple demo torches out to some members I know and trust to post honest test reviews on welding web. I'll be cutting at least one of the heads apart to compare with a CK torch. Destructive testing is
fun;)

I think I prefer to just go ahead and get the cooler, I live in the Houston area and summers are brutally hot, winters are very mild maybe 10 days of anything below 32* F.

That's disappointing to here the new Lincoln has some bugs to work out one of the reasons I am shy on pulling the trigger.

Since you are a distributed of the ChiCom machines I have heard plenty of both good and bad on Everlast but not much bad on AHP I have considered them both. I like the long term warranty but as I mentioned to Oscar, I recently watched a video from a fella named Matt Pratt he has critiqued both machines, with AHP having the better construction, I hope you have some influenza towards the manufacturer in regaled to increase of quality. Since I don't intend to purchase until after the new year I will keep an eye out for improvements that may sway me towards those machines.

Mr. Tig was critical of the torch and pedal on the AHP and mainly the torch on the Everlast, still the price point of both are what is attractive.

Thanks for the input.

[soutthpaw]

I don't want to break any rules here. But Mr. TIG will say anything to sell a machine and make a buck, I won't. He is only an average welder, not world renowned at anything. Rarely does close ups of his welds and bans people that call him out on it on his site. He had been banned multiple times from the other forum I am on regularly. But you are free to buy from him . In fact I told the owner of AHP that I refuse to sell their new plasma because it does not perform to my expectations and I don't believe my customers will be happy with it. I am taking the 5 units they sent me back to them next week. Find any other AHP/Everlast/lotos/razor etc dealer that will tell you they won't sell you a product because it is not up to snuff.
Yes I have been influential in improving the AHP TIG machine. Read my review here or the extensive owners thread on WeldingWeb.com forums.
Mister TIG sells his own "version" of the AHP machine coupled with an SSC pedal and I think a CO torch. So he trash talks the stock stuff to push his line.
AHP improved the 2015 model torch on my suggestions, along with adding frequency control and standard Dinse 35/50 cable lugs with separate gas hookup. The 2016 was improved again with a key feature being addition of high speed pulse, again I was pushing for this.
The machine is 800 bucks or less. You can't add $300 worth of SSC pedal and CK torch and keep it in the entry level price range.
The reason I decided to become a distributor is that I get to have control and final decision on all my customers and any issues they might have. I also spend 20 minutes testing and welding with every machine before shipping so I never ship a DOA machine or one that doesn't function 100%. I test pedal response and display readout accuracy as well as test accuracy of the flowmeter. Just like I have done in my reviews.
I hope that answers your questions.

If the video i'm thinking of that guy has a personal vendetta against Everlast and most Chicoms. I have talked to several electrical engineers and they tell me you can't establish the efficiency of a circuit board design without extensive prototyping and testing. He buys the machines, does the videos and ships them back. I believe he has to use other people to order machines because Everlast won't sell him one.
BTW, I'm Deaf so I can't follow the audio on those videos and auto captions is awful and makes no sense most of the time

[Louie1961]

If you dig a little deeper, you will find that pretty much no one ever has had a complaint with the HTP welder or HTP America's service. Literally, I don't think I have ever read a bad review of this machine or ever heard of one failing. I think it is the absolute best deal of the three. I know a lot of people like their Everlast welders, but it is not uncommon to run across reports of them arriving DOA or having issues at some point. And it is not uncommon to hear complaints about their customer service. Right, wrong, or indifferent, you don't get those reports about the HTP unit. I think there is something to be learned from that. I also don't think the Lincoln is a bad unit. But if you can afford the HTP, that's the way I would go, just to get 10% more amps.

[soutthpaw]

Agree with Louis, HTP is also made in Italy not China.

[thorthemighty]

I don't want to break any rules here. But Mr. TIG will say anything to sell a machine and make a buck, I won't. He is only an average welder, not world renowned at anything. Rarely does close ups of his welds and bans people that call him out on it on his site. He had been banned multiple times from the other forum I am on regularly. But you are free to buy from him . In fact I told the owner of AHP that I refuse to sell their new plasma because it does not perform to my expectations and I don't believe my customers will be happy with it. I am taking the 5 units they sent me back to them next week. Find any other AHP/Everlast/lotos/razor etc dealer that will tell you they won't sell you a product because it is not up to snuff.
Yes I have been influential in improving the AHP TIG machine. Read my review here or the extensive owners thread on WeldingWeb.com forums.
Mister TIG sells his own "version" of the AHP machine coupled with an SSC pedal and I think a CO torch. So he trash talks the stock stuff to push his line.
AHP improved the 2015 model torch on my suggestions, along with adding frequency control and standard Dinse 35/50 cable lugs with separate gas hookup. The 2016 was improved again with a key feature being addition of high speed pulse, again I was pushing for this.
The machine is 800 bucks or less. You can't add $300 worth of SSC pedal and CK torch and keep it in the entry level price range.
The reason I decided to become a distributor is that I get to have control and final decision on all my customers and any issues they might have. I also spend 20 minutes testing and welding with every machine before shipping so I never ship a DOA machine or one that doesn't function 100%. I test pedal response and display readout accuracy as well as test accuracy of the flowmeter. Just like I have done in my reviews.
I hope that answers your questions.

If the video i'm thinking of that guy has a personal vendetta against Everlast and most Chicoms. I have talked to several electrical engineers and they tell me you can't establish the efficiency of a circuit board design without extensive prototyping and testing. He buys the machines, does the videos and ships them back. I believe he has to use other people to order machines because Everlast won't sell him one.
BTW, I'm Deaf so I can't follow the audio on those videos and auto captions is awful and makes no sense most of the time

I certainly wasn't trying to bash either of those machines, I've seen plenty of good critiques on both, I only mentioned Mr. Tig as one who likes both machines but saw room for improvement, I don't know much of the politics on who does what to peddle their product, I've read plenty of other welding forums and have seen your posts in them or someone who goes by same name Southpaw and sells Everlast and AHP. I have seen plenty of good reports too. I even have them dow as one of my three choices, so I'm not attempting to suggest those are junk machines. I think for the price they are very good, but I know sometimes people get a lemon and have to go through the process of getting it fixed or replaced, I hope to avoid this potential problem.

I think if you were able to hear Matt Pratts critique you would find his assessments fair, he doesn't beat up the product rather he discusses where it could be improved and talks about the function of what each component does. I do understand the desire to defend a product you sell and I like the fact you test what you sell as well. If I decide to go with either of those I will look you up to purchase through.

Thanks Jeff

[thorthemighty]

You might also consider if the machine needs repair (warranty or otherwise) does it need to be shipped somewhere or is there a local welding supply that is authorized to do the work.

Richard

This is why a Lincoln would interest me because I know parts and shops are available to do repairs locally. One reason why I want to purchase new is for the warranty service.

[Oscar]

HTP has a good reputation for customer service. For what it is, a one-location distributor of Italian-made Stel welding machines, you couldn't ask for more. Being that they are their only dealer/distributor gives them more control, but of course if something were to need service beyond what phone-level troubleshooting can resolve, the only drawback is that the machine would have to be sent in.

On my recent order, the owner J. Nolan asked me to call in to make sure my parts list was correct, instead of hoping they would get it right. Sure enough, he was right there waiting to pick up the phone.

[thorthemighty]

If you dig a little deeper, you will find that pretty much no one ever has had a complaint with the HTP welder or HTP America's service. Literally, I don't think I have ever read a bad review of this machine or ever heard of one failing. I think it is the absolute best deal of the three. I know a lot of people like their Everlast welders, but it is not uncommon to run across reports of them arriving DOA or having issues at some point. And it is not uncommon to hear complaints about their customer service. Right, wrong, or indifferent, you don't get those reports about the HTP unit. I think there is something to be learned from that. I also don't think the Lincoln is a bad unit. But if you can afford the HTP, that's the way I would go, just to get 10% more amps.

That is what I find very attractive about this machine, the price point is a little more than I want to spend, but is less than what I would give for the Miller 200 DX with a watercooler set up and seems to have about the same amount of whistles and bells, the more I research the more I lean in that direction.

I am hoping the Lincoln will prove out to be a fine machine after they work out the bugs but it doesnt have near the functions as the Invertec 221, I think Jody had the Lincoln V220 or V205 and it would be on par with this machine but I think they are $1000 more.

[thorthemighty]

HTP has a good reputation for customer service. For what it is, a one-location distributor of Italian-made Stel welding machines, you couldn't ask for more. Being that they are their only dealer/distributor gives them more control, but of course if something were to need service beyond what phone-level troubleshooting can resolve, the only drawback is that the machine would have to be sent in.

On my recent order, the owner J. Nolan asked me to call in to make sure my parts list was correct, instead of hoping they would get it right. Sure enough, he was right there waiting to pick up the phone.

Thanks for the input on service this would be very important to me, how long have you had your machine?

[Oscar]

HTP has a good reputation for customer service. For what it is, a one-location distributor of Italian-made Stel welding machines, you couldn't ask for more. Being that they are their only dealer/distributor gives them more control, but of course if something were to need service beyond what phone-level troubleshooting can resolve, the only drawback is that the machine would have to be sent in.

On my recent order, the owner J. Nolan asked me to call in to make sure my parts list was correct, instead of hoping they would get it right. Sure enough, he was right there waiting to pick up the phone.

Thanks for the input on service this would be very important to me, how long have you had your machine?

I got mine in the 2013 Black Friday Sale. Sadly I haven't put that many hours on it. Maybe 60 or so. It's still pretty much mint condition. But I did test it extensively with all the different settings. Very happy with it and the dual-voltage Arctic Chill cooler.

[thorthemighty]

yeah I wished I had not missed the Black Friday sale, cuz I may already have ordered it with the $200 off and $100 in extra stuff...I called them this morning to see if they might extend the sale, but that was a nogo...I really like what that machine has to offer.

Thanks for the info

[soutthpaw]

HTP has a good reputation for customer service. For what it is, a one-location distributor of Italian-made Stel welding machines, you couldn't ask for more. Being that they are their only dealer/distributor gives them more control, but of course if something were to need service beyond what phone-level troubleshooting can resolve, the only drawback is that the machine would have to be sent in.

On my recent order, the owner J. Nolan asked me to call in to make sure my parts list was correct, instead of hoping they would get it right. Sure enough, he was right there waiting to pick up the phone.

Thanks for the input on service this would be very important to me, how long have you had your machine?

I have a friend who used to work for HTP, Just asked him and he said it needs to be shipped back to them for repair. No network of service centers for those machines

[Oscar]

I have a friend who used to work for HTP

Same here, except my friend is a PITA, opinionated butt-clown

[soutthpaw]

I have a friend who used to work for HTP

Same here, except my friend is a PITA, opinionated butt-clown

Isn't that a prerequisite to be allowed to use internet forums:mrgreen::twisted:

[rahtreelimbs]

HTP has a good reputation for customer service. For what it is, a one-location distributor of Italian-made Stel welding machines, you couldn't ask for more. Being that they are their only dealer/distributor gives them more control, but of course if something were to need service beyond what phone-level troubleshooting can resolve, the only drawback is that the machine would have to be sent in.

On my recent order, the owner J. Nolan asked me to call in to make sure my parts list was correct, instead of hoping they would get it right. Sure enough, he was right there waiting to pick up the phone.

That may be the case but Everlast and AHP I bet don't have the customer service that HTP has. Also, who's to say that you won't have to wait any longer on a Lincoln or Miller machine to get repaired!!!

Thanks for the input on service this would be very important to me, how long have you had your machine?

I have a friend who used to work for HTP, Just asked him and he said it needs to be shipped back to them for repair. No network of service centers for those machines

[thorthemighty]

HTP has a good reputation for customer service. For what it is, a one-location distributor of Italian-made Stel welding machines, you couldn't ask for more. Being that they are their only dealer/distributor gives them more control, but of course if something were to need service beyond what phone-level troubleshooting can resolve, the only drawback is that the machine would have to be sent in.

On my recent order, the owner J. Nolan asked me to call in to make sure my parts list was correct, instead of hoping they would get it right. Sure enough, he was right there waiting to pick up the phone.

Thanks for the input on service this would be very important to me, how long have you had your machine?

I have a friend who used to work for HTP, Just asked him and he said it needs to be shipped back to them for repair. No network of service centers for those machines

[/quote]

rahtreelimbs wrote That may be the case but Everlast and AHP I bet don't have the customer service that HTP has. Also, who's to say that you won't have to wait any longer on a Lincoln or Miller machine to get repaired!!!
good question/statement ^

On a side note, I have been looking on Ebay at used dynasty 200dx's I found one for $2800 but that's a lot to pay for no warranty saw another starting bid $1500 still have a hard time buying used without a warranty even at that price, saw a Lincoln Invertig V205 going for $2700 and again no warranty, it is looking like I may go with the HTP 221 it seems to have everything those other two have and the price point is better. If the HTP has not had many problems to speak of at least in my research then I am not sure where I could go wrong with that purchase. I am still willing to listen to other options though.

I want to thank everyone for their comments and advice so far and since I won't be purchasing until after the new year I hope to see additional input and opinions should anyone else wish to chime in. Much appreciation.

Jeff

[soutthpaw]

I know with zoro's 30% off specials they run, you can get a Dynasty 200dx to your doorstep under $3k. The HTP doesn't have the level of advanced features the Dynasty has and neither does the Lincoln, I used to own the V205T. Didn't like the control interface and no saved settings feature
Lincoln has a new TIG put for about $1400. Less features than the AHP but you get the Lincoln service network and name. I haven't seen one in person.
Dynasty is the standard by which all other machines are judged in North America. My undersdstanding is that Fronius and Kemppi etc have some petty amazing machines