Welding Tips and Tricks

For welding most Steel, is 312 Stainless better as welding rod in lieu of the E70S2?

A contradiction in Jody's TIG Basics email lessons has me a bit confused. In one lesson Jody recommends 308 and E70S2 for Steel and in another he recommends 318?

On lesson number 2 he stated the following:

"Tig Welding Rod - 90 % of everything you will tig weld can be welded with 3 different tig rods. 308 for welding stainless, E70S2 - for welding mild steel and 4130, and 4043 for welding aluminum. There are all kinds of rods for specific applications but these 3 rods will handle most of the tig jobs you will do."


Today I got Jody's Seventh email lesson and it had a different list for welding rod:


"1. 312 stainless ( I previously recommended Hastelloy W but the price has gone to over 100 us dollars per lb.)
2. Aluminum Bronze
3. 4043 Aluminum

* Hastelloy W will weld any steel. Let me say that again. ANY STEEL! Tool steel , low medium and high carbon steels, low alloy steels, 4130, stainless steels, cast iron, nickel alloys, cobalt alloys, and each of these to any of the others. The "W" in Hastelloy W should stand for "Wonder Rod". its almost magic. 312 stainless is almost as good. But not quite....just much more affordable.

* Aluminum Bronze will weld any copper alloy to any other copper alloy. It is also an great rod for tig welding cast iron and for welding steels to copper alloys.

* 4043 aluminum is the most commonly used tig welding rod for general purpose aluminum welding."


So, Not having a need to weld Stainless at the moment I purchased some E70S2 and 4043 to get me started, should I replace the E70S2 with 318 when I run out and use that exclusively for all steel?

did you mean "308"? or 312 as opposed to 318

rick9345 wrote:did you mean "308"? or 312 as opposed to 318

That's why I'm a bit confused,

In the first lesson he says that you really only need E70S2 for mild steel and 308 for Stainless.

Then in the next lesson he says that 318 is better and will work for both stainless and mild steel.

So I guess what I'm asking is this; if 318 will work for mild steel, 4130, and stainless steel is there a need to even keep and or use E70S2 or 308?

There's a ER318 tig filler rod?

p40whk wrote:

rick9345 wrote:did you mean "308"? or 312 as opposed to 318

That's why I'm a bit confused,

In the first lesson he says that you really only need E70S2 for mild steel and 308 for Stainless.

Then in the next lesson he says that 318 is better and will work for both stainless and mild steel.

So I guess what I'm asking is this; if 318 will work for mild steel, 4130, and stainless steel is there a need to even keep and or use E70S2 or 308?

I've never heard of a 318 filler, perhaps it was a verbal mistake. If you want a multipurpose stainless filler choose 312

Oscar wrote:There's a ER318 tig filler rod?

I guess it would help if I were to proof what I wrote a little better

Not sure where I got the 318 from, getting old and being new to TIG I don't have the numbers committed to memory yet.

So that leaves me with the question; is 312 a better option (if it will work for both) than using a combination of 308 for just stainless and and 70S2 for the rest of the ferrous metals?

Being new to TIG I don't have the experience to know whether the performance of one rod is that much better for specific metals over another.

I keep 70s2, 309, 316, and 4043 on hand. That takes care of all but the specialized stuff. But I don't do a lot of aluminum yet.

here is some thoughts on using stainless to weld steel
1. can it be done=yes
2. should it be done=NO and yes DEPENDS what does this weld do?

Your best bet is to match your base metal as best you can except when you have to use a different filler to achieve desired properties out of the weld. Best example is when 4130 gets welded with ER70S-2 or ER80-D2 instead of 4130, in this case the base metal gets diluted with filler to create a less brittle weld. Another example is 4043 aluminum gets its strength by being diluted with base metal. PLEASE don't weld 4130 with stainless or any other wonder filler. If you are spending money on this material it is prolly for a critical job so weld it correctly. 4130 is one of my pet peeves on what some individuals do to it.

For starting out your best bet is get your self some
ER70-S2 for steel jobs
308L for stainless jobs
4043 or 4943 for aluminum jobs thinking about phasing out all my 4043
309L for Stainless to steel jobs add when you need it

These fillers will allow you to do most jobs with steel, stainless and aluminum. As time goes on and as what your welds need to actually do, you will add fillers that are better suited for certain jobs.

In order to weld almost anything you will wind up with a filler collection that looks like this. I carry about 3 to 4 different diameters of several fillers along with different types. Currently up to 25 tubes and reason some of them are on the floor is I'm adding more storage room to the wall rack. The larger tubes hold 10lbs are 5lbs of lighter weight materials.

Thanks for that clarification Dirtmidget, I did pick up some 70-S2 as well as 4043 and had planned to get the other filler rods as the welds required.

I write technical manuals for a living so I tend to over analyze instructions a bit and Jody's instructions made me question what I thought I knew.

Obviously there's no substitute for experience but the wealth of knowledge here is a close second.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in, your advice is appreciated.

My knew machine showed up on my door step today so now I need to find or design a good set of plans for my first project which I think should be a welding cart.

Love the storage you have and it would be nice to incorporate that into a stand.

dirtmidget33 wrote:here is some thoughts on using stainless to weld steel
1. can it be done=yes
2. should it be done=NO and yes DEPENDS what does this weld do?

Your best bet is to match your base metal as best you can except when you have to use a different filler to achieve desired properties out of the weld. Best example is when 4130 gets welded with ER70S-2 or ER80-D2 instead of 4130, in this case the base metal gets diluted with filler to create a less brittle weld. Another example is 4043 aluminum gets its strength by being diluted with base metal. PLEASE don't weld 4130 with stainless or any other wonder filler. If you are spending money on this material it is prolly for a critical job so weld it correctly. 4130 is one of my pet peeves on what some individuals do to it.

For starting out your best bet is get your self some
ER70-S2 for steel jobs
308L for stainless jobs
4043 or 4943 for aluminum jobs thinking about phasing out all my 4043
309L for Stainless to steel jobs add when you need it

These fillers will allow you to do most jobs with steel, stainless and aluminum. As time goes on and as what your welds need to actually do, you will add fillers that are better suited for certain jobs.

In order to weld almost anything you will wind up with a filler collection that looks like this. I carry about 3 to 4 different diameters of several fillers along with different types. Currently up to 25 tubes and reason some of them are on the floor is I'm adding more storage room to the wall rack. The larger tubes hold 10lbs are 5lbs of lighter weight materials.

0121161644.jpg

0121161645.jpg

0121161647.jpg

Great info. Oh, and BTW, challenge accepted!

Oscar wrote: Great info. Oh, and BTW, challenge accepted!

Thanks. Confused on the challenge part, do you mean about collecting tig rod to be able to weld anything.

As far as the 318 tig rod it does exist. Do not know actual uses for it just googled it

Lincoln PDF link
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... Si-eng.pdf

Lincoln link does not want to go directly to when I copy it. Don't know why but
Click consumables at top pick tig. then select LNT on left brings up list open up stainless and there it is LNT 318 si

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-gb/Co ... c_EU_Base)

dirtmidget33 wrote:Thanks. Confused on the challenge part, do you mean about collecting tig rod

Yeap, thread revival. I spend most of the day yesterday making more PVC tubes for my tig rods....so far, it's not looking good. BUT, I do need to run to Lowes and pick up more stuff, lol. All stuff I've been collecting since 2009.

Oscar has it bad

'Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.'

Franz Kafka.

Its not that bad, most of those are not full

kiwi2wheels wrote:'Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.'

Franz Kafka.

That's how I justify the 200# of tools I carry for a cross-country trip. They've saved my arse more than once, too.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:

kiwi2wheels wrote:'Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.'

Franz Kafka.

That's how I justify the 200# of tools I carry for a cross-country trip. They've saved my arse more than once, too.

Steve S

If you didn't carry around that many tools you wouldn't have to replace the shocks and suspension on the side of the road Steve.

I replaced a front wheel "unit bearing" on my '01 Dodge Ram in the parking lot of an AutoZone 400 miles from home on a Sunday because I had my tools.

I also had a front brake pad fall the hell apart and go metal-on-metal in Melbourne, Florida while I was on a business trip in a Chrysler LeBaron. The guys who sold me the new brake pads took pictures of me changing it out in the parking lot in my khakis and dress shirt. They were also nice enough to turn that rotor down to the spec limit (and perhaps a little beyond) so I could get back on the road.

I don't go more than 50 miles from home without tools. Under 50, I'll get a tow.

Steve S

I know a truck driver who got a call from a customer one time and as he got the call he was crawling out under a truck after replacing his transmission on his semi in a parking lot 500 miles from home. Over 2 million miles on the rig and he hauls all sorts of farm machinery.

The Boy Scout's motto. Be Prepared.

The horn repairman's motto. Beep Repaired. (That appeared as a cartoon in Boy's Life Magazine about 1976.)



Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:The Boy Scout's motto. Be Prepared.

The horn repairman's motto. Beep Repaired. (That appeared as a cartoon in Boy's Life Magazine about 1976.)



Steve S

That's why I always carry at least my leather man and usually another knife or two or three. Pliers, screwdriver, scissor, knife-everyone is always surprised or impressed or glad I have it. Especially at school

Oscar wrote:
Yeap, thread revival. I spend most of the day yesterday making more PVC tubes for my tig rods....so far, it's not looking good. BUT, I do need to run to Lowes and pick up more stuff, lol. All stuff I've been collecting since 2009.

LOL never stops does it. So Oscar how many TIG tubes you up to now and what alloys you stocking. I haven't added any in a long time. Unfortunately due to some physical health issues haven't been doing much lately.

Otto Nobedder wrote: ...the 200# of tools I carry for a cross-country trip. They've saved my arse more than once, too.

Good on ya. I sometimes get grief when we have to pack around a tool bag I keep in our road-trip vehicle. But somehow I never get grief when I use the tools to fix something. (A slow drain, and Mom's icemaker on this last trip.)

dirtmidget33 wrote:

Oscar wrote:
Yeap, thread revival. I spend most of the day yesterday making more PVC tubes for my tig rods....so far, it's not looking good. BUT, I do need to run to Lowes and pick up more stuff, lol. All stuff I've been collecting since 2009.

LOL never stops does it. So Oscar how many TIG tubes you up to now and what alloys you stocking. I haven't added any in a long time. Unfortunately due to some physical health issues haven't been doing much lately.

I think it's close to 20, but I haven't finished yet. Mild steel 70S2/80SD2, 308/309/312/316/347 stainless, aluminum 4043/4943/5356, silicon bronze, Super Missile Weld, Inconel 625, Hastelloy W/X, Titanium Grade 5/23. Why I have this stuff, well...I have no answer, lol.

You redneks keep America rolling!

Fly