Welding Tips and Tricks

I am going to buy tig rods Monday along with 2%lath 1/16 and 3/32 tungsten for my welder, I will be welding both thin and thicker stuff on mild steel, stainless and aluminum, so these where the rods I was thinking of getting (1/16 and 3/32 rods, 10lbs of each)

70 s-2, 4043, and 308 (maybe like 5lbs of 309??)

Any other suggestions? At 5% a pound I estimate it will be about 300-400$.

Thanks
Noah

Noah,
The list of rods you've chosen will cover quite a wide variety of metals. I would go with 308L (lower Carbon) in place of 308 and if it's available at your supplier I'd go with the 4943 from Hobart for your Aluminum rod for it's wetting abilities.

I seldom use a 1/16 rod for Aluminum, so for me I get 3/32 and 1/8 and let the puddle take what it needs.

No matter what you get to start you'll find yourself buying other types as you need them and always seem to need what you haven't bought yet. Soon you'll be like us old farts and have more rods than you can remember you have or can see well enough to identify in poor light.

Len

Noah
The only thing I'll question is the 1/16" 4043, aluminum filler consumes very fast and unless you're welding very thin AL (</=1/16" sheet) then 3/32" is good, and 1/8" filler for the thicker material. If anything then go with 5lbs of the 1/16" filler and see how much you use.

BTW there are about 26-30 rods (1/16" 4043) per pound

LtBadd wrote:Noah
The only thing I'll question is the 1/16" 4043, aluminum filler consumes very fast and unless you're welding very thin AL (</=1/16" sheet) then 3/32" is good, and 1/8" filler for the thicker material. If anything then go with 5lbs of the 1/16" filler and see how much you use.

BTW there are about 26-30 rods (1/16" 4043) per pound

In that case I'll probably get 5 pounds1/16, 5pounds of 1/8 and 10 of 3/32 now from what braehill said,i might get 4943 instead of 4043

Also, the highest I'll be welding at is 150amps (my torch max rating) so that might influence your rod choices/size

Noah

I use a lot of 3/32 and 1/8 and some 5/32 for carbon and anything from 1/16-1/8 for my SS.

Poland308 wrote:I use a lot of 3/32 and 1/8 and some 5/32 for carbon and anything from 1/16-1/8 for my SS.

yeah, but i dont got that much amperage to play with, max 150 so i dont think i would even use that much, so 5/32 would not really work for me (personally) and i plan to practice alot on 14/16 gauge to practice joints (because i want to get used to thin stuff as i hope to be able to weld motorcycle frames, or food grade stuff later on, havent decided, but eh, practice is practice!) so that is where the 1/16 will come in, as for the 3/32, ill probably use that to start practicing tig welding on some 3/8 plate padding beads (i know, it wont get alot of penetration or anything, but its padding beads, just to practice feeding the wire) then when im satisfied with my ability to do flat/horizontal, move to 1/16 filler on thin material, practice it, then once i got the hang of it, do vertical/ OH on the 3/8 plate, go to the 1/16 filler on the thin stuff, etc, if you think of a better method of practicing joints, fitups, feeding the wire, etc, by all means let me know. (i will practice without feeding the wire first to get a hang of the foot pedal, then when comfortable, feed wire)


regards

noah

Regardless of what I'm welding, and at what amps, I almost exclusively use 3/32" filler. There are exceptions, but even in those cases 3/32 would have done the job if I'd not had access to the preferred size. This is the result of years of practice in companies that only buy one size, but it pays off.

I occasionally weld stainless thin enough to use a 1/16 rod, and I occasionally weld aluminum thick enough to need a 1/8" rod, but I can make almost anything work with the 3/32, so, in your shoes, I'd buy a "little" on the larger and smaller sizes, and "more" in the middle. 150A means you won't be considering larger than 1/8", BTW.

I have yet to weld aluminum with the 4943, but it comes highly recommended by people who's skills I trust, so I'm good with supporting that suggestion. 70-s2 is a must for general carbon steel work. 308 LSi is my go-to for stainless steel. I don't recall even once needing a non "L" or non "Si" in anything I've done. I'm not picky on 309, for carbon or silicon content, as those are not the properties I'm concerned about, but generally I've used "LSi" there, as well.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:150A means you won't be considering larger than 1/8", BTW.

is there any way id be able to do like 1/4"? i probably wont be using helium or anything like that, but if its a weld for practicing on thicker stuff than 1/8 (or if something comes up) can i push my torch to like 175 to do it really quick, or is there a way to do it at 150? (it wont be a critical weld, just for fun and practice

later i might invest in a larger ck torch, or a water cooler for my everlast 250ex

regards

noah

I think he meant 1/8 max for a filler rod size not your base metal.

I use a little Miller 150 STL a lot. Used it on some heavy wall pipe that was about 1/2in thick. Used 3/32 rod for the root and hot pass. Then 1/8 rod running about 130 amps.

Poland308 wrote:I think he meant 1/8 max for a filler rod size not your base metal.

oh right, i knew that 1/8 would usually welded at like 100-120amps, so i found it strange that he said max was 1/8, couldnt read between the lines, now i feel dumb

so whats thickest metal (lets say HRS plate,) that you can weld at 150 amps? (not counting the prep you can do by beveling, and welding up the V bevel on both sides) for example, just a butt joint.

thanks,

regards

noah

Poland308 wrote:I think he meant 1/8 max for a filler rod size not your base metal.

Yes, that is what I meant.

With appropriate preparation, 150A will weld quite thick metal. I was referring to filler rod size. The filler rod has the effect of quenching/cooling your weld puddle, and so it's size is restricted by the power of your arc and the heat/preheat in your base metal.

Steve S

I would be comfortable welding 3/8" plate or a similar pipe schedule thickness at 150A, assuming I had the patience for duty cycle.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:

Poland308 wrote:I think he meant 1/8 max for a filler rod size not your base metal.

Yes, that is what I meant.

With appropriate preparation, 150A will weld quite thick metal. I was referring to filler rod size. The filler rod has the effect of quenching/cooling your weld puddle, and so it's size is restricted by the power of your arc and the heat/preheat in your base metal.

Steve S

ok, so i will most likely not do this, but hypothetically speaking, can i weld like a 1" plate with proper beveling, or perhaps even more? (what would be the max, probably not going to do it, just curious )
[edit] Posted this before i had a chance to read your previous reply.
regards

noah

With pre-heat and multiple stringers, 1" Is possible.

It would take the patience of Job... but it can be done.

Steve S

In each pass, your 150A will allow a certain depth of penetration, and a certain width and depth you can fill with your filler rod. In very large welds, this becomes impractical simply for the time involved.

Steve S

Don't waste your $$$ on 1/8" aluminum rods. You're not pushing enough amperage for welds of that size.

4943 rod for aluminum

Sent from mobile. Not responsible for Typos

Mondays a holiday,who is open?

• ER80S-D2 for 4130 chromoly if you pre-heat/slow-cool afterwards
• Inconel-625 for certain nickel-based alloys, suitable for very high service temps without degrading physical properties.
• Hastelloy-W for certain nickel-based alloys and unknown/dissimilar steels that can be PWA for near titanium-like YS & UTS.
• ER5356 for non-high-temp aluminum based applications that require higher shear strength than 4043 that will not be exposed to operating temps >150° and when 4943 pricing isn't as attractive. (less than half the cost)
• Silicon-Bronze for some steel/copper/brass brazing applications
• ER312 for cast steels of similar composition, and dissimilar steels.
• Super Missile Weld for high-strength welds on unknown/dissimilar steels
• 6AL-4V/6AL-4V ELI (Grade 5/Grade 23) for welding Grade 5 or Grade 9 Titanium. ELI for ~25% better resistance to crack propagation (toughness).

BTW, everything is cheaper if you buy 10+ lbs at a time.

rick9345 wrote:Mondays a holiday,who is open?

canada, no memorial day here mate

noah

Oscar wrote:

• ER80S-D2 for 4130 chromoly if you pre-heat/slow-cool afterwards
• Inconel-625 for certain nickel-based alloys, suitable for very high service temps without degrading physical properties.
• Hastelloy-W for certain nickel-based alloys and unknown/dissimilar steels that can be PWA for near titanium-like YS & UTS.
• ER5356 for non-high-temp aluminum based applications that require higher shear strength than 4043 that will not be exposed to operating temps >150° and when 4943 pricing isn't as attractive. (less than half the cost)
• Silicon-Bronze for some steel/copper/brass brazing applications
• ER312 for cast steels of similar composition, and dissimilar steels.
• Super Missile Weld for high-strength welds on unknown/dissimilar steels
• 6AL-4V/6AL-4V ELI (Grade 5/Grade 23) for welding Grade 5 or Grade 9 Titanium. ELI for ~25% better resistance to crack propagation (toughness).

BTW, everything is cheaper if you buy 10+ lbs at a time.

your comment is very helpful, thank you for taking your time for explaining it all, though i will only start with the mild steel, aluminum, and stainless, i will keep your comment in my back pocket, after i practice tig awhile i want to practice welding Chromoly tubing, (for pipe welding/motorcycles just to practice the joint and fit up) or any kind of tubing really, is chromoly relatively expensive? it would need to be thin enough to not require a preheat, since its for practice, and i dont have a torch or anything to preheat with. (that being said, what diameter tubing would you reccomend to practice fitups on? and what wall thickness? i would like to do K joints and other similar fitups, sorry, but i dont have much experience as you can see...- ) so how much is a full order of X diameter chromoly tubing in your area?

thanks

regards
noah

Least honorable wrote:

Oscar wrote:

• ER80S-D2 for 4130 chromoly if you pre-heat/slow-cool afterwards
• Inconel-625 for certain nickel-based alloys, suitable for very high service temps without degrading physical properties.
• Hastelloy-W for certain nickel-based alloys and unknown/dissimilar steels that can be PWA for near titanium-like YS & UTS.
• ER5356 for non-high-temp aluminum based applications that require higher shear strength than 4043 that will not be exposed to operating temps >150° and when 4943 pricing isn't as attractive. (less than half the cost)
• Silicon-Bronze for some steel/copper/brass brazing applications
• ER312 for cast steels of similar composition, and dissimilar steels.
• Super Missile Weld for high-strength welds on unknown/dissimilar steels
• 6AL-4V/6AL-4V ELI (Grade 5/Grade 23) for welding Grade 5 or Grade 9 Titanium. ELI for ~25% better resistance to crack propagation (toughness).

BTW, everything is cheaper if you buy 10+ lbs at a time.

your comment is very helpful, thank you for taking your time for explaining it all, though i will only start with the mild steel, aluminum, and stainless, i will keep your comment in my back pocket, after i practice tig awhile i want to practice welding Chromoly tubing, (for pipe welding/motorcycles just to practice the joint and fit up) or any kind of tubing really, is chromoly relatively expensive? it would need to be thin enough to not require a preheat, since its for practice, and i dont have a torch or anything to preheat with. (that being said, what diameter tubing would you reccomend to practice fitups on? and what wall thickness? i would like to do K joints and other similar fitups, sorry, but i dont have much experience as you can see...- ) so how much is a full order of X diameter chromoly tubing in your area?

thanks

regards
noah

No worries, I'm a newb too. For practice I would recommend ordering 0.083-0.125" wall thickness, in no smaller than 1.75" OD. Tubing is the most difficult to tig due to the constantly changing torch angle requirement. I order my chromoly from Shapiro Supply. Even with it traveling all the way across the US, it is still cheaper than nearby places that stock it. ~$500 gets me about 96' in different ODs and WT's.

Oscar wrote:

Least honorable wrote:

Oscar wrote:

• ER80S-D2 for 4130 chromoly if you pre-heat/slow-cool afterwards
• Inconel-625 for certain nickel-based alloys, suitable for very high service temps without degrading physical properties.
• Hastelloy-W for certain nickel-based alloys and unknown/dissimilar steels that can be PWA for near titanium-like YS & UTS.
• ER5356 for non-high-temp aluminum based applications that require higher shear strength than 4043 that will not be exposed to operating temps >150° and when 4943 pricing isn't as attractive. (less than half the cost)
• Silicon-Bronze for some steel/copper/brass brazing applications
• ER312 for cast steels of similar composition, and dissimilar steels.
• Super Missile Weld for high-strength welds on unknown/dissimilar steels
• 6AL-4V/6AL-4V ELI (Grade 5/Grade 23) for welding Grade 5 or Grade 9 Titanium. ELI for ~25% better resistance to crack propagation (toughness).

BTW, everything is cheaper if you buy 10+ lbs at a time.

your comment is very helpful, thank you for taking your time for explaining it all, though i will only start with the mild steel, aluminum, and stainless, i will keep your comment in my back pocket, after i practice tig awhile i want to practice welding Chromoly tubing, (for pipe welding/motorcycles just to practice the joint and fit up) or any kind of tubing really, is chromoly relatively expensive? it would need to be thin enough to not require a preheat, since its for practice, and i dont have a torch or anything to preheat with. (that being said, what diameter tubing would you reccomend to practice fitups on? and what wall thickness? i would like to do K joints and other similar fitups, sorry, but i dont have much experience as you can see...- ) so how much is a full order of X diameter chromoly tubing in your area?

thanks

regards
noah

No worries, I'm a newb too. For practice I would recommend ordering 0.083-0.125" wall thickness, in no smaller than 1.75" OD. Tubing is the most difficult to tig due to the constantly changing torch angle requirement. I order my chromoly from Shapiro Supply. Even with it traveling all the way across the US, it is still cheaper than nearby places that stock it. ~$500 gets me about 96' in different ODs and WT's.

500$ for 96' is actually pretty good, i thought it would be a good bit more, and since its so thin, i might aswell only get 1/16 rod? or also 3/32? and yeah, it seems to be the hardest to weld, when and if i get the tubing, ill practice padding beads on it (if that makes sense) all the way around to get used to moving my hand by a few degrees every movement i make so the arc is always at the center of the tubing before i go to the joints.

thanks for the help once again man, really appreciate it

[edit] would it be a good idea to get a propane torch just to preheat to like 100 degrees F ? i beleive you can get one at any harware store for like 20$, seems like a worthwhile purchase if it will improve welding.

noah

4130 is rarely welded with 4130 filler, outside of places that can fully "normalize" the weldment after.

E80 is the best compromise choice to get the weld characteristics you want without an enormous normalizing operation, and it's the recommended rod for aircraft by the EAA.

Steve S