[Radishfever]

We had steady rain during the night and the wind didn’t sound all that bad. Woke up to a messy driveway and a few downed, tired looking branches.

For background I do care about quality when it comes to projects that could effect others. Have been reading and studying welding for maybe 10 years. Very little actual weld experience though. I do however have experience in construction and was paid.

Happy to support people who are trying to be better


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[snoeproe]

You will be fine.
I've done lots of moment connection welds like that.
We usually cut a mouse\rat hole in the web and insert a backing bar under the joint and use a 3/8" - 1/2" gap between the flanges. This ensures a clean full pen weld all the way across the flanges.
You can do a but weld on the web.
No need for 6010 if your using a backing bar, you can use 7018 for the entire weld.

[Oscar]

Looks good from here. I need to get out in the garage and tinker some more.

[Simclardy]

You will be fine.
I've done lots of moment connection welds like that.
We usually cut a mouse\rat hole in the web and insert a backing bar under the joint and use a 3/8" - 1/2" gap between the flanges. This ensures a clean full pen weld all the way across the flanges.
You can do a but weld on the web.
No need for 6010 if your using a backing bar, you can use 7018 for the entire weld.

Thanks for the tip. Sounds like a good idea. If i can't get full penetration i will use this trick.

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[Simclardy]

Looks good from here. I need to get out in the garage and tinker some more.

Yes sir! I love tinkering in the garage.


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[Radishfever]

Simclardy,

Just curious. Are you a hobbyist or weld for a living?

I’m guessing you are a home builder who welds?



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[Simclardy]

Simclardy,

Just curious. Are you a hobbyist or weld for a living?

I’m guessing you are a home builder who welds?



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I don't know what i am any more!
I started as an electrician. I also have a gas license, and sheet metal license in mass along with a master hvacr in nj.
I have training as a blacksmith and i am an inventor (1 us patent).
I have welded for hire but i would not call it a living. Here are some boats i worked on.
And the brake lights are a photo of a bumper i rebuilt with my spool gun.


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[Simclardy]

The ss was a railing i made for a shower stall. The sink is mine and i had to fill in the extra hole. And the copper manifold was for a solar heat pump.
Hopefully i can add a new photo to the collection this week of a beautiful beam!

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[Radishfever]

I had a feeling you were a talented understated kind of person[emoji106]

Time to take a break and discover.

Living the dream here also


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[Simclardy]

I had a feeling you were a talented understated kind of person[emoji106]

Time to take a break and discover.

Living the dream here also


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Thanks. My ego gets in the way sometimes but i try to learn every day, and i find even the most obnoxious person has something to offer.

Update: dual shield arrives tomorrow.
Not sure when my 6010 arrives

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[Oscar]

I had a feeling you were a talented understated kind of person[emoji106]

Time to take a break and discover.

Living the dream here also


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Thanks. My ego gets in the way sometimes but i try to learn every day, and i find even the most obnoxious person has something to offer.

Update: dual shield arrives tomorrow.
Not sure when my 6010 arrives

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Nice, which dual shield did you order?

[Simclardy]

I had a feeling you were a talented understated kind of person[emoji106]

Time to take a break and discover.

Living the dream here also


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Thanks. My ego gets in the way sometimes but i try to learn every day, and i find even the most obnoxious person has something to offer.

Update: dual shield arrives tomorrow.
Not sure when my 6010 arrives

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Nice, which dual shield did you order?

I think it's the stuff you recommended. I called Hobart and they speced it.

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[Radishfever]

You decided to run dual shield on the beam?

I somehow missed the transition from stick to dual shield. Seems to be very popular for thicker steel.

You called Hobart and told them your project and they recommended wire?

And Oscar had already nailed it?

[JayWal]

Looking forward to hearing how the the dual shield works, I’ve been on the fence about using it myself. Trying to find advantages over 0.35 short arc.

I’m starting to be as sceptical about Oscar being a “hobbyist” too [emoji16]


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[Oscar]

Lol. I'm re-defining the term "hobbyist". It doesn't mean cheap nor dumb, that's for dang sure!

Some advantages of dual shield over straight solid ER70S6 are:

• higher current density, for a given wire diameter
  • practically speaking, for example, 0.035" dual shield flux core can weld thicker base metals per-pass, than 0.035" solid MIG wire, typically due to the spray-arc nature of running dual shield (it runs HOT)
• Much easier to run out-of-position, since the slag formed from the flux helps support the weld puddle
  • As a corollary to that, productivity can skyrocket if you dial in your settings for dual-shield perfectly
• Hence you can make the same money for a welding job quicker, or bust your butt and get more jobs done to make more income

From Lincoln's own Literature. Look at the deposition rate for 0.035" in short-circuit for 175A-200A (the range you would typically need for ¼" steel. You're looking at a melt-off rate of ~4lbs/hr @ 175A. Extrapolating that, about ~5lb/hr @ 200A.




Now look at dual shield in the same diameter. 8.4 lb/hr is what you'd be laying down @ 200A. Almost +70% increase in productivity.


Disadvantages vs short-circuit solid wire MIG:

• require higher flow-rates due to typical nozzles being too short for the required CTWD, typically around ¾"-1.0", so you need anywhere from 35 CFH in a perfect situation, to almost 50CFH if you try to weld outdoors and there is a slight breeze ***
  • which means you need to spend more on shielding gas, but CO2 is perfect for this since it's cheaper anyways
• produces a smidge more smoke/soot due to the flux → slag transformation
• Have to remove slag prior to additional subsequent passes (but it's super easy, just like 7018 slag)
• Need to run hot since it runs "just right" with enough voltage to get it to spray-transfer (the wire tip turns to a "►" needle-type tip when it's just right), so you need to have a decent MIG gun and good gloves, preferably with additional padding on the backside of your support hand

Notes:

*** = a longer nozzle can significantly reduce shielding gas costs by recessing/burying the contact tip so the required CTWD is maintained with the nozzle much closer to the workpiece, instead of there being lots of open "space" between the nozzle and the workpiece. Less gas is needed due to less space/distance from the nozzle orifice to the weld piece, as I have demonstrated with my custom-made super mega nozzle for my own MIG welders in this thread:

project: lowering flowrates for dual shield flux core

[JayWal]

Hey thanks a lot for the info Oscar, much appreciated!

I agree with you that hobbyist does not mean cheap and dumb I call myself the same! I’m not quite as far down the information rabbit hole as you are but I am sinking fast lol and lovin it. Can never get enough info on different processes.

My hangup on the dual shield is my Lincoln powerMig has pulse mig. Which I find awesome for slingin down some metal fast and hot. Or even on 1/8 tubing or something, Im really liking it more and more. Yet I can still use the same wire and machine, flick a couple knobs and weld some 16 gauge sheet metal. All with 0.35 and 75/25 gas. Which I know is not idea for pulse, but I don’t want the bother of switching to 90/10 it works quite well with 75/25. But getting a 10 lb roll of 0.45 dual to try is definetly on the to do list


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[Radishfever]

A hobbyist can often have more educational knowledge than a pro.

The difference lies in experience, in the actual work environment. For example most people start by working for other people. They are supervised and given higher responsibility with time. Their work gets scrutinized in real time. They are at work 10 hours a day welding. They leave that job and get another, that new boss or supervisor is watching every move 10 hours a day and making suggestions.

There is a huge difference and I bet the guys out there with first hand knowledge would agree.

That is from one very happy hobbyist [emoji106]




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[Oscar]

Speaking of dual shield flux core, I'm gonna do my little I-beam splice experiment, but not just yet because I'm wanting to try something first. Lots of ideas rolling around in my noggin......

Simclardy, don't forget to check the spec on the CTWD for your dual shield wire from Hobart. It's typically around 3/4" for 035, but might not be the case. Don't throw away the "instructions" since it usually has that info right on it.

[Louie1961]

My hangup on the dual shield is my Lincoln powerMig has pulse mig. Which I find awesome for slingin down some metal fast and hot. Or even on 1/8 tubing or something,

Dual shield is easier to run out of position because of the slag. Also dual shield actually runs a little hotter than pulse MIG and generally has better penetration, making it more suitable on heavy weldments.

[Simclardy]

Thanks guys for the help so far. First beam is almost done. Photos to come.
Question. On the splice plates i am going to put in the web, would you use a rectangle [ ] or a diamond <>
I thought the diamond might be easier access? And i might have read it had other advantages, but can't remember.
Thanks again

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[Simclardy]

Ok folks. First beam is done. The bumpy weld is the back side penetration, and one of them was done overhead. I ground it smooth. I was very pleased with the end product. The splice plates obviously ended up rectangular as apposed to diamond. I beveled the edge that was against the flange so i could tie in properly. Someone suggested leaving a big gap and using a backing plate, so that's what i did. I beveled the web and left about 3/8" gap then backed it with the splice plate.
I did not use a plate on both sides. I read more than once that the butt weld is just as strong as the base metal. It was just a bit of a stiffiner to keep the bending to a minimum at the splice.

Thanks again folks!

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[tweake]

my $0.02

clean the steel a lot better, even the back side.

no need to weld it right through from one side. weld it from both sides.

except for the top and bottom of the beam where it may be sitting on something, don't grind off the reinforcing (cap), that just makes it weaker.

the stiffener dosen't look like its welded on the top and bottom. a beveled edge might have been better or diamond shaped plate so you can get good access to the edge.

[Simclardy]

my $0.02

clean the steel a lot better, even the back side.

no need to weld it right through from one side. weld it from both sides.

except for the top and bottom of the beam where it may be sitting on something, don't grind off the reinforcing (cap), that just makes it weaker.

the stiffener dosen't look like its welded on the top and bottom. a beveled edge might have been better or diamond shaped plate so you can get good access to the edge.

The picture was taken 3 days after the weld was done. It was clean when i welded.

Zoom in you will see 2 beads all around the splice plate.

I hear you on not grinding the back side for strength but i wanted to see if the weld was consistent all the way through. I did not bevel both sides because i read in my lincoln book it was not necessary on smaller pieces. Although grinding the cap is weaker, the butt weld should be just as strong as the base metal and i think a bit easier to keep moisture out.
Thanks

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[tweake]

my $0.02

clean the steel a lot better, even the back side.

no need to weld it right through from one side. weld it from both sides.

except for the top and bottom of the beam where it may be sitting on something, don't grind off the reinforcing (cap), that just makes it weaker.

the stiffener dosen't look like its welded on the top and bottom. a beveled edge might have been better or diamond shaped plate so you can get good access to the edge.

The picture was taken 3 days after the weld was done. It was clean when i welded.

Zoom in you will see 2 beads all around the splice plate.

I hear you on not grinding the back side for strength but i wanted to see if the weld was consistent all the way through. I did not bevel both sides because i read in my lincoln book it was not necessary on smaller pieces. Although grinding the cap is weaker, the butt weld should be just as strong as the base metal and i think a bit easier to keep moisture out.
Thanks

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its always a bit difficult to see with these size pics and also no knowing the story behind each one or the sequence.

i would be inclined to do another weld on the stiffener, from the pic it just looks like its not welded out to the edge. its a little hard to see when viewed straight on.

the bevel, it depends on amps available but also if you do open root or not.
if its only beveled one side i tend to do open root weld to weld the back side, then fill/cap.
if you bevel from both sides you can do normal weld, then go to the other side, grind if needed and weld that side. usually quicker than doing open roots and better with poor fit up.

to my eyes, caps look fine, the rest look cold (tho that may be just the pics).

[Simclardy]

my $0.02

clean the steel a lot better, even the back side.

no need to weld it right through from one side. weld it from both sides.

except for the top and bottom of the beam where it may be sitting on something, don't grind off the reinforcing (cap), that just makes it weaker.

the stiffener dosen't look like its welded on the top and bottom. a beveled edge might have been better or diamond shaped plate so you can get good access to the edge.

The picture was taken 3 days after the weld was done. It was clean when i welded.

Zoom in you will see 2 beads all around the splice plate.

I hear you on not grinding the back side for strength but i wanted to see if the weld was consistent all the way through. I did not bevel both sides because i read in my lincoln book it was not necessary on smaller pieces. Although grinding the cap is weaker, the butt weld should be just as strong as the base metal and i think a bit easier to keep moisture out.
Thanks

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its always a bit difficult to see with these size pics and also no knowing the story behind each one or the sequence.

i would be inclined to do another weld on the stiffener, from the pic it just looks like its not welded out to the edge. its a little hard to see when viewed straight on.

the bevel, it depends on amps available but also if you do open root or not.
if its only beveled one side i tend to do open root weld to weld the back side, then fill/cap.
if you bevel from both sides you can do normal weld, then go to the other side, grind if needed and weld that side. usually quicker than doing open roots and better with poor fit up.

to my eyes, caps look fine, the rest look cold (tho that may be just the pics).

So the splice plate was bigger than i wanted. 1/2" and the web is 3/8". I did not want to weld out to the edge because i thought it a waste of time and i would be adding more heat than necessary. I understand i am not getting the full strength of the 1/2" but is there another reason that i am overlooking?

The ugly weld is the back side of the 6010 root pass. I used 1/8" rod at 77 amps.

What are your settings and rod of choice?
The hot pass i ran 88 amps, and the 7018 1/8 i ran 125-130 for fill and cap.

On the 5/32 rod i ran 172amps for the splice plate.
Thanks

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