[98GTSViper]

I am 100% a complete and total noob. I've tried to do my research but that doesn't mean I know anything

I've had a harbor freight flux core welder (the cheap $100 one) for about a year now and I'm struggling to get good welds

I read and hear all the time puddle control is the key - but i can't see the puddle to begin with. I can't really see anything once the welding begins. I have again a cheap $50 harbor freight helmet that autodarkens and i've left it out in the sun to recharge but i still can't see anything. I'm doing it in broad daylight with the sun shining so there's plenty of light outside

The welder feels like it pulses a lot and leaves a bunch of turds all over the metal. I'm running it on the high heat setting and i've been trying different wire speeds but i haven't really found a good spot.

I'm really just practicing on the 1/8" angled steel from lowes that i just keep cutting up and practicing on. I angle grind it first to remove any rust or coatings

I'm looking for any and all tips to help me: see better, create a good puddle, choose a right wire speed and anything else.

Thanks so much

[tweake]

well the first thing is you need to be able to see.
what setting is the shade set to? it sounds like its set to dark.
but sometimes sunlight coming in the back reflects off the screen and you can't see much.
if the hood isn't working you will get flashed by the arc and you will know about it real fast.

the flux core welder. just throw that in the bin. they are a nightmare to use and tend to make people really bad welders.

get yourself a small inverter stick welder. and don't worry they are not as hard to use as people make it out to be.
it will make you learn better and everyone needs a stick welder. don't need top of line, but not bottom end junk (or fake) crap either.
get some 6013 3/32 rods and some 7018 3/32 rods.

that will get you going for a reasonable amount of $$$.

[cj737]

well the first thing is you need to be able to see.
what setting is the shade set to? it sounds like its set to dark.
but sometimes sunlight coming in the back reflects off the screen and you can't see much.
if the hood isn't working you will get flashed by the arc and you will know about it real fast.

the flux core welder. just throw that in the bin. they are a nightmare to use and tend to make people really bad welders.

get yourself a small inverter stick welder. and don't worry they are not as hard to use as people make it out to be.
it will make you learn better and everyone needs a stick welder. don't need top of line, but not bottom end junk (or fake) crap either.
get some 6013 3/32 rods and some 7018 3/32 rods.

that will get you going for a reasonable amount of $$$.

Words to live by right there ^^^^

[Oscar]

Agree 100%. We see similar threads here about once a week, every week. Each time they have to do with harbor freight $100 flux core welders. Even on Facebook, there is a group for beginners, and lo' and behold, there is a post about "how do I make my welds better", and the welder is again a harbor freight $100 flux core welder. You're fighting against the machine, instead of the machine working for you, and that is what holds a lot of people back from learning how to weld; and it shouldn't have to be that way. If you can get $40 for that POS on Craigslist, do it immediately. You'll thank us later. If I had $1 for each thread I saw about asking for advice on that welder, I'd be rich, but I'd also let people use my MIG's for a test drive so they can see what a real quality MIG runs like.

[cwby]

Low cost HF welders are crap, but try this - set a piece of scrap angle on the table V down & tack it. Brace your nozzle against the side of it & set up the machine so you can turn your body away from the nozzle & adjust your machine. Set voltage wherever you think it should be, pull the trigger on the gun & adjust wire speed until you get a crisp "bacon frying" sound. Not sputtering, not popping, just a smooth frying sound. DON'T look at the nozzle (it's behind you), look at the machine!

Now once you get the welding hood issue resolved so you can see the puddle, you should be able run a decent bead - even with a cheap machine.

[Oscar]

Low cost HF welders are crap, but try this - set a piece of scrap angle on the table V down & tack it. Brace your nozzle against the side of it & set up the machine so you can turn your body away from the nozzle & adjust your machine. Set voltage wherever you think it should be, pull the trigger on the gun & adjust wire speed until you get a crisp "bacon frying" sound. Not sputtering, not popping, just a smooth frying sound. DON'T look at the nozzle (it's behind you), look at the machine!

Now once you get the welding hood issue resolved so you can see the puddle, you should be able run a decent bead - even with a cheap machine.

That would work, for a regular DC MIG welder. That pos HF flux core welder is AC! (aka, no flux-cored/solid MIG wire (that I know of) was ever designed for AC!) People actually spend like $50+ dollars to create a DC rectifier circuit for the machine (wtf!)! He'll never get that crispy, smooth, bacon frying sound! (now I'm hungry). It's always gonna be buzzing/popping/spattering. You can't even "set the voltage to where you think it should be", because it doesn't have a voltage knob.




Case in point my Dad bought one a while back. He thought he could "make it work". I just shook my head when he told me. I took my HTP Pro Pulse 200 to his house and let him weld with it, with the same exact wire spool (it was a 4" spool of gas-less flux core which doesn't fit my machine because it only accepts 8" or 12" spools, so I ghetto-rigged a holder for it so we could feed it through the machine). He ran about 5 seconds worth of a bead, stopped, flipped up his hood. He looked at the weld, looked at the MIG gun, then finally looked over at the machine, then at me. The look on his face of " ok ok, you were right" was priceless! I left it there so he didn't have to struggle, and just bought myself another one for me.

98GTSViper, make absolutely sure you peeled off the plastic protective sheets from the inner & outer clear lenses on the helmet. If you have already done so, make sure your clear lenses, both the inside and outside ones are clear. They are very delicate to clean, so if they are scratched up, don't even bother unless you know what you are doing. Just buy new ones. For most people setting the shade to 10 works great for low-amperage welding. Tape an old black T-shirt to the top rim of your helmet and along the sides if you can so you can drape it down on the back of your head/neck. Blocking out the ambient light so it doesn't cause glare is a huge help to helping you see what you are doing. Your eyes should be about no more than 18" from the weld joint (I prefer about 10-12"). Your eyes need to be 20/20, either naturally or with corrective lenses. If your helmet has a sensitivity, set it as high as it will allow without it going into dark-state on it's own. If it has a delay setting, that's up to you, but I prefer a longer delay, so it does not change from dark-back-to-light too early while the puddle is still glowing. You mentioned you needed to charge it out in the sunlight, so of course make sure it is darkening properly, otherwise your eyes will not like you. That should take care of the seeing part with regards to the welding helmet. It won't change anything on the welder side, especially considering that all gas-less flux cored wire is very smokey and generally very spattery. Rest assured there are better helmets (and welders) out there that will make your welding journey a lot easier! If it wasn't for this Covid-19 ordeal, I'd invite all owners of HF flux wire welders to come over to my house so they can use a real machine.

[cwby]

Oscar - you may be right about that - never tried an AC mig machine.
I will tell about my experience with a cheap mig welder though. I bought a Century flux core machine at auction for $70 because I needed to weld a bar back on a storage container door 80 miles from home. Tested it out on the bench & it welded OK - after I untangled the wire on the spool. Drove up to the farm, cut the locking bar off the container, picked up the stuff I went to get & plugged the Century machine into an extension cord to weld the bar back on the door (dam thieves caused this). With the machine on a 50' heavy extension cord I couldn't make that thing even tack the bar to the frame! It would just stutter & spark.

So much for cheaping out!

Drove to town & bought a Miller 215 on the spot. That one welded the bar back on just fine.

[tweake]

Low cost HF welders are crap, but try this - set a piece of scrap angle on the table V down & tack it. Brace your nozzle against the side of it & set up the machine so you can turn your body away from the nozzle & adjust your machine. Set voltage wherever you think it should be, pull the trigger on the gun & adjust wire speed until you get a crisp "bacon frying" sound. Not sputtering, not popping, just a smooth frying sound. DON'T look at the nozzle (it's behind you), look at the machine!

one of the issues i found with self shielded fluxcore is how precise it had to be adjusted for it to run right.
one of the big issues with those cheap machines is they are only a two tap machine, tho you can get 4 tap machine which is a little better. compared to the pro version which is something like 8+ tap machine.
with a 2 or 4 tap machine the odds of you getting set bang on is pretty low.

the other issue is a beginner needs to learn welding not machine setting. which is why i prefer stick to learn with (which was recommended to me when i started). with stick there is only one adjustment, the rest is up to you.

[snoeproe]

In school I started learning with an acetylene torch with a welding/brazing tip on it. From there, I learned smaw (stick welding).

[98GTSViper]

In case more info would be helpful:

I do not do this for income (obviously) and i don't have a HUGE need for it (i.e. i don't live on a farm or really have a ton of metal repairs) - so its really just for my car projects and hobby

That being said - i thought i probably did need to ditch the welder, but just wanted to double check before i bought something else

Do you still recommend inverter stick welding for small auto projects (current one is i need to weld up a bracket for my oil cooler)?

I had been searching for used MIG welders on facebook marketplace and craigslist. The only one that i am seeing that isn't priced same as brand new or more is a one lone Millermatic 211 for $700. Is this a good one to learn on with its Autoset mode?

Should i forget it and just do whatever i can to get my hands on an inverter stick welder?

Thanks again - I'm thrilled with the amount of responses

[tweake]

i can't say to much on cost because i'm not over there.
don't forget if you buy anything make sure you clean it ALL. damn virus.

i still recommend a stick welder. even if its a cheap buzz box.
because its more about learning to weld than using it on a project etc. learning is the most important thing.
its very easy to make bad mig welds that look good. thats really important with automotive projects where you don't want your welds failing.
i've done it myself, perfect looking weld that just popped off like it was just sitting there.

plus a small lightweight easily portable stick welder is really handy for around the house, mates places etc.

these days there is a lot of migs that also have a stick welder function. keep an eye out for those.

[Poland308]

i can't say to much on cost because i'm not over there.
don't forget if you buy anything make sure you clean it ALL. damn virus.

i still recommend a stick welder. even if its a cheap buzz box.
because its more about learning to weld than using it on a project etc. learning is the most important thing.
its very easy to make bad mig welds that look good. thats really important with automotive projects where you don't want your welds failing.
i've done it myself, perfect looking weld that just popped off like it was just sitting there.

plus a small lightweight easily portable stick welder is really handy for around the house, mates places etc.

these days there is a lot of migs that also have a stick welder function. keep an eye out for those.

I’m with Tweak. Stick welding is a proven process that is easy to learn ( relatively) and will help you learn what you need to be looking at to make good welds with any process. I’ve run lots of mig. In production settings and for commercial repairs. It’s fast and has its place but it’s easy to get a great looking bad weld.

[snoeproe]

The problem is, stick welding isn’t what I would recommend for automotive work. You aren’t going to be successfully welding floor pans or body panels with stick. Especially when your inexperienced. For that type of work you need a good mig welder. Solid wire mig with gas.

Next question, what do you have for available power to run a welder? 110/120v only or do you have 220/230v power?

[Poland308]

You can set up any dc stick welder for scratch start tig.. that will work for body work if you aren’t comfortable sticking it.

[sbaker56]

I guess I've got to be the one to disagree, yes it's a good idea to learn to weld with stick, you gain a better understanding of the process and if you can stick weld it's a short learning curve to mig, but it's not so easy to learn how to stick weld if all you know is mig.

However, learning to weld is great and all, but if you're specifically wanting to weld automotive, stick just isn't the right process, I wouldn't wish trying to learn how to stick weld on body panels and sheet metal on my worse enemy, a VERY experienced welder can weld thinner stuff with stick sure, but it's not easy, and if you tried to learn how to do it when don't even know how to stick weld to begin with, your learning curve is going to be a lot closer to a 90 degree angle.

It's also just not convenient, I've stick welded 18 gauge, but I'd rather mig weld anything 1/8 and under if I can help it. It's not going to be exceptionally cheap, but you really ideally want at least a 120v welder capable of running gas shielded wire and 140 amps for decent versatility.

[tweake]

love the variety of opinions

no one learns to weld on body panels. always start on thicker stuff like 3/8 plate.

i'm not suggesting use stick on panel work (tho its probably fine for thicker brackets etc), stick welder is really for learning and odd jobs. once you get up and running on stick, then look at mig. by then you have a better idea of what you want to do.
yes its a bit more expensive way, but there is cheap 2nd hand stick welders around. you don't have to go buy a miller or lincoln etc. mine is just a cheap hobby brand. its about 1/4 the price of an ok brand mig.

i think for the minimal cost, stick welder is great way to learn and its another very useful tool that you will not regret buying.

[Oscar]

Stick is great, but I agree it is not for automotive unless you're only doing heavier type stuff like mounts & brackets. Thinner stuff is always a challenge. But the answer is simple. Get a dedicated inverter stick welder, a dedicated MIG welder, and a dedicated TIG welder. All problems solved, literally. But really, stick could technically accomplish it all with 1/16" stick "wires" that flop all over the place, up to 1/8"-5/32"-3/16" electrodes to weld up heavy parts, it would just take a lot longer IMO; cleaning up slag, chipping, wire brushing, touching up corners/edges/etc that happen to get blown away from too much heat, etc.

[tweake]

Stick is great, but I agree it is not for automotive unless you're only doing heavier type stuff like mounts & brackets. Thinner stuff is always a challenge. But the answer is simple. Get a dedicated inverter stick welder, a dedicated MIG welder, and a dedicated TIG welder. All problems solved, literally.

agreed.

but funny enough thats usually what happens.

[Poland308]

Stick is great, but I agree it is not for automotive unless you're only doing heavier type stuff like mounts & brackets. Thinner stuff is always a challenge. But the answer is simple. Get a dedicated inverter stick welder, a dedicated MIG welder, and a dedicated TIG welder. All problems solved, literally.

agreed.

but funny enough thats usually what happens.

Yup I have 3 machines
Edit: not including 2 oxy torches

[cj737]

In case more info would be helpful:

I do not do this for income (obviously) and i don't have a HUGE need for it (i.e. i don't live on a farm or really have a ton of metal repairs) - so its really just for my car projects and hobby. I had been searching for used MIG welders on facebook marketplace and craigslist. The only one that i am seeing that isn't priced same as brand new or more is a one lone Millermatic 211 for $700. Is this a good one to learn on with its Autoset mode?

Buy it! Perfect machine for all your needs.

[snoeproe]

There are some 3 in one machines out today that are very good machines.
They are going to cost much more than a 100 amp Harbor anchor weight machine costs but you get what you pay for.

[BillE.Dee]

latch right on to that 211, Viper. A friend of mine (retired boilermaker) uses one for all of his auto projects.

[bplayer405]

I am 100% a complete and total noob. I've tried to do my research but that doesn't mean I know anything

I've had a harbor freight flux core welder (the cheap $100 one) for about a year now and I'm struggling to get good welds

I read and hear all the time puddle control is the key - but i can't see the puddle to begin with. I can't really see anything once the welding begins. I have again a cheap $50 harbor freight helmet that autodarkens and i've left it out in the sun to recharge but i still can't see anything. I'm doing it in broad daylight with the sun shining so there's plenty of light outside

The welder feels like it pulses a lot and leaves a bunch of turds all over the metal. I'm running it on the high heat setting and i've been trying different wire speeds but i haven't really found a good spot.

I'm really just practicing on the 1/8" angled steel from lowes that i just keep cutting up and practicing on. I angle grind it first to remove any rust or coatings

I'm looking for any and all tips to help me: see better, create a good puddle, choose a right wire speed and anything else.

Thanks so much

I started with the CE flux 125 and a hand me down helmet. Couldn't see the weld pool well either. It made me a grinder not a welder. But, it did stick stuff together enough to be usable. It will weld 1/8" if you run on the high setting and keep the wire feed down around 2 - 3. Honestly mine doesn't want to weld much faster than that on either heat setting.

I'm still getting my feet wet in welding and have upgraded to the dc flux 125 welder and can't get over how much better it is than ac. I also took a chance on a menards helmet and can see much better. It was around $40, but way better than what I had. Everyone scoffs at a flux core only welder, but they can get someone welding and learning the fundamentals economically. If you learn how to run beads with the welder you have you'll be accomplishing something.

Best advice I can give you is upgrade your wire to Hobart E71T-11 or Lincoln 211-mp, get some anti spatter spray and nozzle gel. Keep your speed at 3 or under and practice. It will weld and get you going. It's a very limited welder, just remember that. Almost any dc mig welder would be an upgrade.



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[tweake]

Everyone scoffs at a flux core only welder, but they can get someone welding and learning the fundamentals economically. If you learn how to run beads with the welder you have you'll be accomplishing something.

theres a good reason everyone scoffs at flux core welders.

the problem i usually see is people simply fail to learn welding basics. but worse of all think they are welding just fine.
its not until they need to do something good or critical and have it fail on them. then its a big embarrassment. sometimes they walk away, other times they suck it up and go learn.

frankly cost wise its fairly cheap to get a small stick welder to get you started.
far cheaper than a middle of the road mig.

all the advice i got from pro's (especially those who do 4wd's) all said "learn stick first" and "don't get a mig under $xyz".
these days i understand why they said that.
so this is just me passing on what helped me start.

[Oscar]

Everyone scoffs at a flux core only welder, but they can get someone welding and learning the fundamentals economically. If you learn how to run beads with the welder you have you'll be accomplishing something.

theres a good reason everyone scoffs at flux core welders.

the problem i usually see is people simply fail to learn welding basics. but worse of all think they are welding just fine.
its not until they need to do something good or critical and have it fail on them. then its a big embarrassment. sometimes they walk away, other times they suck it up and go learn.

frankly cost wise its fairly cheap to get a small stick welder to get you started.
far cheaper than a middle of the road mig.

all the advice i got from pro's (especially those who do 4wd's) all said "learn stick first" and "don't get a mig under $xyz".
these days i understand why they said that.
so this is just me passing on what helped me start.

Agree 100%. With the AC output of these cracker-jack wirefeeders, it's even worse than how gasless flux core really is, as if it that wasn't bad enoough! It's almost like if it was made to only create spatter and smoke!

I saw a post on facebook, where a guy took his $100 fluxcore HF welder, bought additional electronics to create a rectifier circuit to make a DC wire feeder, accomplished that, and still couldn't get all that far since the next post he made was "how can I make my welds better?". So even if they think they are doing well, the vast majority will still have a nagging suspicion that something-isn't-right, especially when they see on YouTube pro's like Jody showing how it is really supposed to be/look like. Sucks, but that's how it goes for some people after they waste $200-$350 that they could have either put into saving up for a mid-range real MIG welder, or a basic inverter 160-200A DC stick welder.

If's funny (to me) because I actually started out with TIG for when I needed/wanted to make longtube headers for my racecar that I've been neglecting many years. Then after I got tired of having to clean everything surgically clean, I said the hell with it, I need something faster so I bought an Eastwood MIG 175 transformer MIG. Worked great, used C25 and I could spot/tack weld things a lot faster than with TIG. But then I said, many I wish I did't have to setup the gas cylinder, and check the spool tension, and drive roll tension, and clip the end of the wire stub past the contact tip, and check the contact tip, and the diffuser, etc, etc,. The hell with it, I need a stick welder! But I actually ended up buying the HTP Invertig 221 since it was a badass TIG and stick welder.