[Havoc0122]

Hey guys. Self taught welder here. My dad has welded 40+ years. Brother is a welder. We work in a steel fab shop we make hydraulic parallelogram speed lifts and fab random parts. At the core were fabricators, with little schooling in actual welding. I read books so I know a good amount. I can't figure out vert up. Mild steel. .045 wire. Miller CP-302. WIRE speed 170 IPM DC volts ~18. 25 CFH 90/10 ARGON/CO2. I usually attempt in a 90 degree corner joint. I don't have a lot of time to fab up the actual beveled/grooved plate and backplate used for certification. I do the triangle method. It seems like the tip is too far back and the nozzle might be too big.

[Oscar]

How thick is the steel?
How recessed is the contact tip?
How come you're using 90/10?
What is the actual issue you are struggling with? You say you need help, but with what aspect? I see a couple "attempts" but it looks like you just chickened out and never ran any full beads. You say you use the triangle technique, well where is it?

[Spartan]

Oscar, you're so mean

[Oscar]

Oscar, you're so mean

Nah, I just don't add "fluff", and people read into my typings the wrong way. I'm not the type to be all, "oh, top of the morning to you good sir, i hope you're having a splendid day! You say you are having an issue, well that's no good for anyone , now is it!? Lets see if we can work together as a team to figure it out! What do you say old chap?!"

F. That. Get to it, so we can move on with our lives. Time waits for no slave!

[v5cvbb]

We don't need no stinking fluff.

[smithdoor]

That is a good welder for work.
You can rebuild that welder for ever even rewind the transformer.

But if you want more fun overhead brazing.

Dave

Hey guys. Self taught welder here. My dad has welded 40+ years. Brother is a welder. We work in a steel fab shop we make hydraulic parallelogram speed lifts and fab random parts. At the core were fabricators, with little schooling in actual welding. I read books so I know a good amount. I can't figure out vert up. Mild steel. .045 wire. Miller CP-302. WIRE speed 170 IPM DC volts ~18. 25 CFH 90/10 ARGON/CO2. I usually attempt in a 90 degree corner joint. I don't have a lot of time to fab up the actual beveled/grooved plate and backplate used for certification. I do the triangle method. It seems like the tip is too far back and the nozzle might be too big.

[Havoc0122]

How thick is the steel?
How recessed is the contact tip?
How come you're using 90/10?
What is the actual issue you are struggling with? You say you need help, but with what aspect? I see a couple "attempts" but it looks like you just chickened out and never ran any full beads. You say you use the triangle technique, well where is it?

Thanks for the response. I couldn't find the piece of steel with the sagging bead. It seems like there's not enough penetration and the bead sags. We use everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel. The contact tip is CRAP I'm getting a new gun today. I think it's an issue with the contact tip mainly. It's an old skool shop. The welders are rarely maintained. We're using 90/10 I assume because it's cheap. The aspect I need help with is I'm used to running real thick hot beads. I'm not used to dialing in my welder for vertical up welds. Everytime I rotate the gun during the weld the damn tip hits the work. It's big and clunky. But at my second welding station the tips fine but the weld sags. When I get to work tomorrow I'll try and take better pics and try again at lunch. What settings should I be at? Is the 19 watt 180ipm ok? Thanks Oscar please stick with me I love welding I just can't figure out vert up! Getting my own welder soon and everything.

[Havoc0122]

How thick is the steel?
How recessed is the contact tip?
How come you're using 90/10?
What is the actual issue you are struggling with? You say you need help, but with what aspect? I see a couple "attempts" but it looks like you just chickened out and never ran any full beads. You say you use the triangle technique, well where is it?

Thanks for the response. I couldn't find the piece of steel with the sagging bead. It seems like there's not enough penetration and the bead sags. We use everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel. The contact tip is CRAP I'm getting a new gun today. I think it's an issue with the contact tip mainly. It's an old skool shop. The welders are rarely maintained. We're using 90/10 I assume because it's cheap. The aspect I need help with is I'm used to running real thick hot beads. I'm not used to dialing in my welder for vertical up welds. Everytime I rotate the gun during the weld the damn tip hits the work. It's big and clunky. But at my second welding station the tips fine but the weld sags. When I get to work tomorrow I'll try and take better pics and try again at lunch. What settings should I be at? Is the 19 watt 180ipm ok? Thanks Oscar please stick with me I love welding I just can't figure out vert up! Getting my own welder soon and everything. Also this is MIG Welding with a solid core wire no flux. GMAW.

[Havoc0122]

How thick is the steel?
How recessed is the contact tip?
How come you're using 90/10?
What is the actual issue you are struggling with? You say you need help, but with what aspect? I see a couple "attempts" but it looks like you just chickened out and never ran any full beads. You say you use the triangle technique, well where is it?

Thanks for the response. I couldn't find the piece of steel with the sagging bead. It seems like there's not enough penetration and the bead sags. We use everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel. The contact tip is CRAP I'm getting a new gun today. I think it's an issue with the contact tip mainly. It's an old skool shop. The welders are rarely maintained. We're using 90/10 I assume because it's cheap. The aspect I need help with is I'm used to running real thick hot beads. I'm not used to dialing in my welder for vertical up welds. Everytime I rotate the gun during the weld the damn tip hits the work. It's big and clunky. But at my second welding station the tips fine but the weld sags. When I get to work tomorrow I'll try and take better pics and try again at lunch. What settings should I be at? Is the 19 watt 180ipm ok? Thanks Oscar please stick with me I love welding I just can't figure out vert up! Getting my own welder soon and everything. Also this is MIG Welding with a solid core wire no flux. GMAW.

[Simclardy]

i could use some help with my SMAW uphill as well but your welder looks like GMAW. i do look forward to the pics and solution.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Oscar]

How thick is the steel?
How recessed is the contact tip?
How come you're using 90/10?
What is the actual issue you are struggling with? You say you need help, but with what aspect? I see a couple "attempts" but it looks like you just chickened out and never ran any full beads. You say you use the triangle technique, well where is it?

Thanks for the response. I couldn't find the piece of steel with the sagging bead. It seems like there's not enough penetration and the bead sags. We use everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel. The contact tip is CRAP I'm getting a new gun today. I think it's an issue with the contact tip mainly. It's an old skool shop. The welders are rarely maintained. We're using 90/10 I assume because it's cheap. The aspect I need help with is I'm used to running real thick hot beads. I'm not used to dialing in my welder for vertical up welds. Everytime I rotate the gun during the weld the damn tip hits the work. It's big and clunky. But at my second welding station the tips fine but the weld sags. When I get to work tomorrow I'll try and take better pics and try again at lunch. What settings should I be at? Is the 19 watt 180ipm ok? Thanks Oscar please stick with me I love welding I just can't figure out vert up! Getting my own welder soon and everything. Also this is MIG Welding with a solid core wire no flux. GMAW.

While I do believe you that you weld up "everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel", no one will be able to tell you if your V/WFS of 19/180 is adequate until we know how thick the actual part is. You do need to wrap your head around that. It is completely dependent on it. While I may not have your welder, I can easily replicate the gas mixture and the joint configuration (pretty close anyways) to help you, but I'm not gonna set something up and weld it out just for you to come back and say, "oh it was a different thickness after all". . So questions #1 and #2 still need answers. But if you're getting a new gun, perhaps that will even solve your issues. So lets just wait until you get all your ducks in a row and try again on another piece of steel. Last thing anyone wants to hear after investing their own free time to help is that the new gun solved the problem altogether. But if you're still having problems after you sort out your loose ends, holla back.

[Havoc0122]

How thick is the steel?
How recessed is the contact tip?
How come you're using 90/10?
What is the actual issue you are struggling with? You say you need help, but with what aspect? I see a couple "attempts" but it looks like you just chickened out and never ran any full beads. You say you use the triangle technique, well where is it?

Thanks for the response. I couldn't find the piece of steel with the sagging bead. It seems like there's not enough penetration and the bead sags. We use everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel. The contact tip is CRAP I'm getting a new gun today. I think it's an issue with the contact tip mainly. It's an old skool shop. The welders are rarely maintained. We're using 90/10 I assume because it's cheap. The aspect I need help with is I'm used to running real thick hot beads. I'm not used to dialing in my welder for vertical up welds. Everytime I rotate the gun during the weld the damn tip hits the work. It's big and clunky. But at my second welding station the tips fine but the weld sags. When I get to work tomorrow I'll try and take better pics and try again at lunch. What settings should I be at? Is the 19 watt 180ipm ok? Thanks Oscar please stick with me I love welding I just can't figure out vert up! Getting my own welder soon and everything. Also this is MIG Welding with a solid core wire no flux. GMAW.

While I do believe you that you weld up "everything from 1/4 to 2 inch steel", no one will be able to tell you if your V/WFS of 19/180 is adequate until we know how thick the actual part is. You do need to wrap your head around that. It is completely dependent on it. While I may not have your welder, I can easily replicate the gas mixture and the joint configuration (pretty close anyways) to help you, but I'm not gonna set something up and weld it out just for you to come back and say, "oh it was a different thickness after all". . So questions #1 and #2 still need answers. But if you're getting a new gun, perhaps that will even solve your issues. So lets just wait until you get all your ducks in a row and try again on another piece of steel. Last thing anyone wants to hear after investing their own free time to help is that the new gun solved the problem altogether. But if you're still having problems after you sort out your loose ends, holla back.

Thanks I'll check back with you tomorrow. I don't think it's the gun because I run 2 stations and my second welder has a great tip and nozzle. I think I'm holding the tip too far back. I see some people's tip protrude passed their nozzle. Mines kinda back beneath the end of the nozzle. I'm practicing vert up on 3/8x3 flat bar and sch 40 6'' pipe. I have access to most any selection of steel from tubing to pipe, plate, flat bar, angle bar, stainless round, cold roll, hot roll. I have full access on my spare time. We have 4 5x5x5 scrap bins always full. So I'll get some beads laid and show you my progress in more detail.
Thanks again.

[Havoc0122]

My apologies yes it's GMAW. We TIG too but that's a whole nother story. When I get my personal welder I'll really be able to practice other processes as I'm stockpiling steel.

[Oscar]

I don't think it's the gun because I run 2 stations and my second welder has a great tip and nozzle......I'm practicing vert up on 3/8x3 flat bar and sch 40 6'' pipe.

10-4. Those were two key important points that were left out initially.

[Havoc0122]

I don't think it's the gun because I run 2 stations and my second welder has a great tip and nozzle......I'm practicing vert up on 3/8x3 flat bar and sch 40 6'' pipe.

10-4. Those were two key important points that were left out initially.

Thanks again yeah I was rushing while typing. Thanks for your patience. Been busy here. We're in emergency services, shipping, manufacturing, and food services so when the COVID hit we got busier. Anyway 10-4 I'll be more thorough next post.

[Oscar]

Doh! I was gonna load up my MIG with 045 solid wire and I only have gas shielded flux core! I could have sworn I had a roll of 045 ER70S-6! Time to order some!

[Havoc0122]

Doh! I was gonna load up my MIG with 045 solid wire and I only have gas shielded flux core! I could have sworn I had a roll of 045 ER70S-6! Time to order some!

I think for my first personal welder I'm gonna get a TIG/stick machine with an engine. I really like the Lincoln ranger. Pricey though. One day I wanna get outta this shop and work for myself. I'm gonna post some pics today of my vertical up. Going to use the .045 wire. The IPM on my welder with the good gun/tip for some reason works differently than my welder with the bad/incompatible tip. I normally do 30volts @ 380 IPM for 3/8. 3/8 is our mostly used thickness. The same effect can be achieved with my other welder at 30 volts 175 IPM. There's a wheel missing from the wire feeder. Could that be the issue there?

So I'm going to try vertical up:

2 - 3/8 x 3 x 8 flat bar in a 90degree corner position
Going to start at 160 IPM and 17volts
25 cfm 90/10 ar/CO2
.045 solid core wire

Gun positioning is the main factor. Got to keep the tip close. 10 degrees off the work. I have an hour worth of breaks a day to practice. In our fab shop we have about 10 hoists/cranes we can manipulate the work into the flat/horizontal position if the vertical weld is critical enough. If not I'm used to multi passing vertical down. No more I will conquer vertical up ! Lol have a good day.

[Havoc0122]

Attempt number 1: my best vertical up bead yet. Passed sledge hammer test. 19 volts 200 IPM. I'm close. Those are 3 seperate beads starting from the bottom. First one is 17 volts 180 ipm. Second 18 volts 190 ipm. Next break I'll adjust. What do you recommend?

[Oscar]

There's a wheel missing from the wire feeder. Could that be the issue there?

If there was anything missing from my wire feeder I'd be worried.

So I'm going to try vertical up:

2 - 3/8 x 3 x 8 flat bar in a 90degree corner position
Going to start at 160 IPM and 17volts
25 cfH 90/10 ar/CO2
.045 solid core wire

160IPM on 0.045" solid wire is roughly 160A of welding current. Seems like very little for 0.387" thick plate. Let me load up my machine with 035 wire and use that same amperage (but obviously higher WFS) to see if that's what I like. I have a feeling it will be more than that.

Gun positioning is the main factor. Got to keep the tip close.

Take your nozzle, and a grinder with a thin 045 cutting wheel, and slice off whatever you need to get the tip either flush or protruding 1/8" max if it helps. Flush might be a better idea though. Also, it helps to use a narrow conical nozzle.

Those pictures look like two different attempts. Sometimes it helps to take your soapstone and write down on the plate next to each bead what settings you used.

[Havoc0122]

There's a wheel missing from the wire feeder. Could that be the issue there?

If there was anything missing from my wire feeder I'd be worried.

So I'm going to try vertical up:

2 - 3/8 x 3 x 8 flat bar in a 90degree corner position
Going to start at 160 IPM and 17volts
25 cfH 90/10 ar/CO2
.045 solid core wire

160IPM on 0.045" solid wire is roughly 160A of welding current. Seems like very little for 0.387" thick plate. Let me load up my machine with 035 wire and use that same amperage (but obviously higher WFS) to see if that's what I like. I have a feeling it will be more than that.

Gun positioning is the main factor. Got to keep the tip close.

Take your nozzle, and a grinder with a thin 045 cutting wheel, and slice off whatever you need to get the tip either flush or protruding 1/8" max if it helps. Flush might be a better idea though. Also, it helps to use a narrow conical nozzle.

Those pictures look like two different attempts. Sometimes it helps to take your soapstone and write down on the plate next to each bead what settings you used.

I'll have to fix up the nozzle when I get the new gun. That's a good idea with the soap stone. It's 3 diff attempts. I have to use what they buy until I get my welder. I'll mess with fixing the nozzle soon. Gonna try once more before I fix up the nozzle. I hope the gun comes soon. I think my technique needs a little work too. I'll report back. Thanks.

[Havoc0122]

There's a wheel missing from the wire feeder. Could that be the issue there?

If there was anything missing from my wire feeder I'd be worried.

So I'm going to try vertical up:

2 - 3/8 x 3 x 8 flat bar in a 90degree corner position
Going to start at 160 IPM and 17volts
25 cfH 90/10 ar/CO2
.045 solid core wire

160IPM on 0.045" solid wire is roughly 160A of welding current. Seems like very little for 0.387" thick plate. Let me load up my machine with 035 wire and use that same amperage (but obviously higher WFS) to see if that's what I like. I have a feeling it will be more than that.

Gun positioning is the main factor. Got to keep the tip close.

Take your nozzle, and a grinder with a thin 045 cutting wheel, and slice off whatever you need to get the tip either flush or protruding 1/8" max if it helps. Flush might be a better idea though. Also, it helps to use a narrow conical nozzle.

Those pictures look like two different attempts. Sometimes it helps to take your soapstone and write down on the plate next to each bead what settings you used.

I'll have to fix up the nozzle when I get the new gun. That's a good idea with the soap stone. It's 3 diff attempts. I have to use what they buy until I get my welder. I'll mess with fixing the nozzle soon. Gonna try once more before I fix up the nozzle. I hope the gun comes soon. I think my technique needs a little work too. I'll report back. Thanks.

Matter of fact I found another nozzle I'll trim down soon.

[Havoc0122]

So I attempted a few times earlier. Still getting the droop. Tried 20v 200 IPM give and take a few. Here are some pics, looks the same. I'm going to be practicing every day now. I have a few practice pieces made up for tomorrow.my internet sucks the shops not close to cell towers. Sorry for the delay. I'm not sure I might be going too fast. I'm manipulating the pool and trying to build shelves from left to right. I end up doing more of a V than triangle. I could see how that might make the sag and lack of fill along the edges. Just gonna keep practicing. Oscar if you recreated my scenario to help it wouldn't be a waste of time it's hard to ask for help but here I am. Anyway thanks.

[Oscar]

Yup, I'm on it, I'm just making some space in the garage since my 3" flat bar is buried at the bottom of my steel rack.


Things have gotten a lot more cluttered since I took that pic.

At first glance, I dunno if it is just the perspective from looking at it from a picture on my screen, but the bead looks very narrow, so it might account for some droop with all the heat concentrated right in the corner. I'll see in a little bit.

[Havoc0122]

I've been doing some research. Tomorrow I will try and widen the bead, do the upside-down V properly but make it wide.

[Havoc0122]

Yup, I'm on it, I'm just making some space in the garage since my 3" flat bar is buried at the bottom of my steel rack.


Things have gotten a lot more cluttered since I took that pic.

At first glance, I dunno if it is just the perspective from looking at it from a picture on my screen, but the bead looks very narrow, so it might account for some droop with all the heat concentrated right in the corner. I'll see in a little bit.

Very nice , hopefully I get my own rack one day. I think you're right about it being too narrow.