[probusmex]

Hi everyone, well I know in stick welder a 6011 and 7018 sticks are accepted for structural use, but I'm new on this flux core-MIG welding world, I've not be able to find a chart where are compared (in strength) sticks vs flux core or MIG weld.
I bought a Lincoln 180 (220v) mig-flux core welder, I used it today for first time with the NR-211MP welding flux-cored self shield wire, but in the lincoln website it's specifications are for "general purpose" and thin material. And I understand (as far as I red) that the "structural" flux core wires comes in higher diameter than my welder accept (0.30, 0.35, 0.45) so my questions are:

1.-Can I weld another diameters of welding wire buying another gun? let's say 0.68 or 5/64?
2.- If I'm going to weld a light small structure with 14 ga carbon steel and 1/4" what wire should I use?
3.-As I'm new on flux core welding, maybe this is a dumb question but, stick welding is stronger than MIG/flux core?

Thanks in advance, and sorry about my english.

[jwmacawful]

if you get the lincoln procedure hand book it's got all the 411 you're looking for plus lots more.

[jwmacawful]

Hi everyone, well I know in stick welder a 6011 and 7018 sticks are accepted for structural use, but I'm new on this flux core-MIG welding world, I've not be able to find a chart where are compared (in strength) sticks vs flux core or MIG weld.
I bought a Lincoln 180 (220v) mig-flux core welder, I used it today for first time with the NR-211MP welding flux-cored self shield wire, but in the lincoln website it's specifications are for "general purpose" and thin material. And I understand (as far as I red) that the "structural" flux core wires comes in higher diameter than my welder accept (0.30, 0.35, 0.45) so my questions are:

1.-Can I weld another diameters of welding wire buying another gun? let's say 0.68 or 5/64?
2.- If I'm going to weld a light small structure with 14 ga carbon steel and 1/4" what wire should I use?
3.-As I'm new on flux core welding, maybe this is a dumb question but, stick welding is stronger than MIG/flux core?

Thanks in advance, and sorry about my english.

one other point if i may; i don't want to sound like a weldlawyer but haven't seen 6011 used for structural welding like welding bolted connection lugs on beams or on column splices in the fab shops or high rise sites i was on. strictly lo-hi for that or dual shield and innershield.

[MinnesotaDave]

Your door chart on the welder gives you wire sizes, and the recommended settings for them, and what thickness of steel the settings/wire will work well on.

Is your door chart missing?

Read the specs on your wire here:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... 200010.pdf

[AKweldshop]

When it comes to wire diameter you have no reason to think about buying any wire larger then .035 . With your welder 180 amps all you will need/use is .035 . Mig is just as strong as anything if done right, so buy some .035 lincoln flux cored and you should be able to weld your 14ga to 1/4 easily . Any comments? John

[probusmex]

Hi everyone, well I know in stick welder a 6011 and 7018 sticks are accepted for structural use, but I'm new on this flux core-MIG welding world, I've not be able to find a chart where are compared (in strength) sticks vs flux core or MIG weld.
I bought a Lincoln 180 (220v) mig-flux core welder, I used it today for first time with the NR-211MP welding flux-cored self shield wire, but in the lincoln website it's specifications are for "general purpose" and thin material. And I understand (as far as I red) that the "structural" flux core wires comes in higher diameter than my welder accept (0.30, 0.35, 0.45) so my questions are:

1.-Can I weld another diameters of welding wire buying another gun? let's say 0.68 or 5/64?
2.- If I'm going to weld a light small structure with 14 ga carbon steel and 1/4" what wire should I use?
3.-As I'm new on flux core welding, maybe this is a dumb question but, stick welding is stronger than MIG/flux core?

Thanks in advance, and sorry about my english.

one other point if i may; i don't want to sound like a weldlawyer but haven't seen 6011 used for structural welding like welding bolted connection lugs on beams or on column splices in the fab shops or high rise sites i was on. strictly lo-hi for that or dual shield and innershield.

Thanks fot the reply, I was talking about light structure welding with 6011 like 18 ga steel, for small structures...

[probusmex]

Your door chart on the welder gives you wire sizes, and the recommended settings for them, and what thickness of steel the settings/wire will work well on.

Is your door chart missing?

Read the specs on your wire here:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... 200010.pdf

Yes I do have my door char, but it only have information fow wire 0.30, 0.35 and 0.45, my question was about 0.68 or more diameter wire. As I mentioned before I'm new about this welding world. Maybe I did not make my self clear enough or my question is ilogical.
Thanks for the reply

[MinnesotaDave]

Your door chart on the welder gives you wire sizes, and the recommended settings for them, and what thickness of steel the settings/wire will work well on.

Is your door chart missing?

Read the specs on your wire here:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... 200010.pdf

Yes I do have my door char, but it only have information fow wire 0.30, 0.35 and 0.45, my question was about 0.68 or more diameter wire. As I mentioned before I'm new about this welding world. Maybe I did not make my self clear enough or my question is ilogical.
Thanks for the reply

Read the specs link I posted - you have no need for wire that heavy. The smaller wires will serve you just fine.

Read the amps needed to drive the larger wires - you are running a 180 amp machine.

[AKweldshop]

The thought of .068 or 5/64 wire should of never entered your mind. All you will ever use is .035 for everything your welder can do . Large wire like your talking is for 300 amp welders and larger. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. John

[probusmex]

When it comes to wire diameter you have no reason to think about buying any wire larger then .035 . With your welder 180 amps all you will need/use is .035 . Mig is just as strong as anything if done right, so buy some .035 lincoln flux cored and you should be able to weld your 14ga to 1/4 easily . Any comments? John

Hi john, thanks for your quick response, well my question was because in the lincoln electric website, all the welding wire specified for structural use comes in other diameter , like 0.68 or 5/64, for example: Innershield NR-232 doesn't come in 0.30, 0.35 or 0.45 diameter (for my welder) and it says is for structural welding. Now I'm welding with the innershield 211 MP, it's the one that comes with my welder. But I don't nkow if it's strong enough to weld my frame structure, channel form 14ga that I need to be welded to a 1/4 steel plate.
I understand that in stick welder the first two numbers (70)18 represents the tensile strengh of the weld. If I find a weld wire with the same tensile strengh I guess is the same result?

Thanks in advance

[MinnesotaDave]

7018 rod is a 70,000 psi rod

The wire you are using is the AWS E71T-11
It just carries the Lincoln brand numbers on it.

In the AWS form, the "7" means 70,000 psi.
Again, read the link provided.

[AKweldshop]

If done correctly nr211 can be a strong weld.
14ga to 1/4 can be welded with your 180c with .035 wire .
What position are you going to weld? flat/ vertical etc .
Joint position makes a lot of difference. John

[probusmex]

7018 rod is a 70,000 psi rod

The wire you are using is the AWS E71T-11
It just carries the Lincoln brand numbers on it.

In the AWS form, the "7" means 70,000 psi.
Again, read the link provided.

I saw the link you post for me, I saw the tensile strenght, thanks for the help and information, I will post pictures of my first practice weld lines soon. Thanks.

[MinnesotaDave]

7018 rod is a 70,000 psi rod

The wire you are using is the AWS E71T-11
It just carries the Lincoln brand numbers on it.

In the AWS form, the "7" means 70,000 psi.
Again, read the link provided.

I saw the link you post for me, I saw the tensile strenght, thanks for the help and information, I will post pictures of my first practice weld lines soon. Thanks.

Cool - look forward to it

[lazerbeam]

Don't worry about the heavier "structural" wire. The manufacturer's of filler metal are talking about buildings and bridges when they mention structural. What you are doing is called light fabrication and the inner shield wire will work just fine. You could also use solid wire and 75/25 gas and it would also work for you.

To answer your 6010/7018 question. 6010's are used mainly for open roots on pipe and then maybe to fill and cap if called for. 7018's are used for structures and for fill and cap on pipe and sometimes open root it just depends on the WPS.

Most people are not aware that the AWS does not have any pre-qualified WPS's that allow short circuit GMAW for structural welds.

[AnvilJack]

Use your welder with confidence for the fabrication you have described. I have the same machine and I regularly do up to 8 mm mild steel, and have done some 12 mm mild steel work, FCAW-ss using 0.9 mm wire.

I would also encourage you to read, indeed study until you understand, the printed welding standards that you may need to conform with. Get training to ensure you can implement your welds to meet those standards. (Of course, standards are different everywhere, and it is of no use me pointing our what they are in our country, when yours may or may not be different.)

Third, I have learned to use the term "carbon steel" with great care. Some of the steel in structural work will be medium carbon steel, but most will probably not (cables, tie rods, spikes, some reinforcing rod, will be medium carbon). It is likely that most of the work you will do in construction with the sizes and profiles of steel you mentioned will be mild steel (low carbon). My real point is, find out -- ask the supplier -- about the steels you use.

Enjoy the welder: it is not the largest puppy in the pound, but with carefully designed fabrications, it is a tool that will allow you to erect quite large machinery sheds, etc.

[AKweldshop]

Lazerbeam and anvil jack hit the nail on. Great thinkin. It was kinda hard for me to put that into words. John

[Bill Beauregard]

This is not my first question. Sue me, I'm curious. I've heard bits and pieces about qualifying a weld process. As I think I understand, more scrutiny is focused on other processes than stick? Am I correct? If so why?

It occurs to me that a sound weld using weaker process is stronger than a flawed weld using high tensile product.

[AKweldshop]

Bill, you found the start of a great conversation..... You have a great point.
I'm not a expert by far, but the more I learn about tensile strength and ductility, the more I realize what a "strong weld" is....
I'm sure Otto has far more on this topic them me
Good luck and thanks John

[Otto Nobedder]

I do have some thoughts, but tomorrow, with new batteries in my keyboard. Typing with my mouse SUX!

Steve S.

[lazerbeam]

To qualify a weld process several samples are taken for tensile strength and bend test and other tests according to how the finished weldment is going to be used. The process is not biased against any welding process, it is just to assure a sound weldment. The procedure qualification record (PQR) leads to the welding procedure specification (WPS) which is a welding test that allows the welders to become qualified.

Short circuit GMAW may pass a PQR and have a WPS written but the AWS does not pre-qualify any short circuit GMAW for structural applications. Sheet metal up to 3/16" is covered by a different code book.

Care should be taken when welding stressed members thicker than 1/4" with GMAW-s. Joint design and preparation should be carefully thought out. I say this because of welding horror stories that I know about first hand.

[AKweldshop]

d

To qualify a weld process several samples are taken for tensile strength and bend test and other tests according to how the finished weldment is going to be used. The process is not biased against any welding process, it is just to assure a sound weldment. The procedure qualification record (PQR) leads to the welding procedure specification (WPS) which is a welding test that allows the welders to become qualified.

Short circuit GMAW may pass a PQR and have a WPS written but the AWS does not pre-qualify any short circuit GMAW for structural applications. Sheet metal up to 3/16" is covered by a different code book.

Care should be taken when welding stressed members thicker than 1/4" with GMAW-s. Joint design and preparation should be carefully thought out. I say this because of welding horror stories that I know about first hand.

I don't think short circuit mig is limited to 1/4 in, with a 180 amp mig you are right. But if you get a big mig you can weld some
Pretty thick stuff. Comment anybody? John

[lazerbeam]

I didn't say it was limited, I said that if you intend to go beyond 1/4" then joint design and preparation need to be carefully thought out, especially on a stressed member.

[Nils]

The thought of .068 or 5/64 wire should of never entered your mind. All you will ever use is .035 for everything your welder can do . Large wire like your talking is for 300 amp welders and larger. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. John

John, no argument here. 180 amp machine, 035 wire max, done! That machine probably couldn't even handle 045 wire let alone that bigger stuff!

[Otto Nobedder]

There is no one weld process "better" than another.

"Appropriate" is the word that applies.

MIG on cast iron, and flux-core on 26 ga. come to mind.

As said before, a weld qualification procedure will establish settings and processes that, through testing, are proved to provide the required properties. Then, those expected to do those welds have constraints to operate in that are proven to work, and the testing of individual welds becomes "sampling", rather than testing every weld.

Steve S