[AKweldshop]

If you come across a bucket load of old out in the air flux cored wire, buy it, if its cheap...
Most times it will make a bunch of porosity filled beads, so you can hook up a bottle of c25 @ 10-16 cfh...
That fill fix your porosity problems and make a nice looking bead....
Duel shield my good man
John

[Tombstone]

If you come across a bucket load of old out in the air flux cored wire, buy it, if its cheap...
Most times it will make a bunch of porosity filled beads, so you can hook up a bottle of c25 @ 10-16 cfh...
That fill fix your porosity problems and make a nice looking bead....
Duel shield my good man
John

Umm pardon me, but where would someone find a "bucket load" of air exposed flux core wire? I've never agreed with using shielding gas and common "Home Depot" bought Lincoln FCAW-S wire. For starters, self-shielded flux-core (FCAW-S) is not meant to be used with shielding gas at all, period.

Second, both gas-shielded flux-core (FCAW-G) and metal cored wire (MCAW) are to be used EXCLUSIVELY WITH a type of shielding GAS. Without the shielding gas of FCAW-G wire, porosity would result every time. The cored wire with FCAW-G is solely used to mix alloying agents into the weld and NOT used for "shielding" characteristics. (That's what the shielding gas is for). Some FCAW-G and MCAW wire can be used with more than one type of shielding gas (100% C02) or a 75/25% Ar/C02 gas mix. Some manufacturers' FCAW-G wires are designed to work exclusively with ome specific type of gas or gas mix.

Last point: simply thinking that the gas shield mix added to FCAW-S wire will make that old air exposed crap wire something "magical" is incorrect. It's a contaminated wire exposed to oxides now and if used, would never pass code. It also should never pass muster for a shade-tree mechanic or even a family run fab shop. While the weld bead may look pretty, it can never be trusted or relied upon for its shear and tensile strength characteristics any longer.

[AKweldshop]

If you come across a bucket load of old out in the air flux cored wire, buy it, if its cheap...
Most times it will make a bunch of porosity filled beads, so you can hook up a bottle of c25 @ 10-16 cfh...
That fill fix your porosity problems and make a nice looking bead....
Duel shield my good man
John

Umm pardon me, but where would someone find a "bucket load" of air exposed flux core wire? I've never agreed with using shielding gas and common "Home Depot" bought Lincoln FCAW-S wire. For starters, self-shielded flux-core (FCAW-S) is not meant to be used with shielding gas at all, period.

Second, both gas-shielded flux-core (FCAW-G) and metal cored wire (MCAW) are to be used EXCLUSIVELY WITH a type of shielding GAS. Without the shielding gas of FCAW-G wire, porosity would result every time. The cored wire with FCAW-G is solely used to mix alloying agents into the weld and NOT used for "shielding" characteristics. (That's what the shielding gas is for). Some FCAW-G and MCAW wire can be used with more than one type of shielding gas (100% C02) or a 75/25% Ar/C02 gas mix. Some manufacturers' FCAW-G wires are designed to work exclusively with ome specific type of gas or gas mix.

Last point: simply thinking that the gas shield mix added to FCAW-S wire will make that old air exposed crap wire something "magical" is incorrect. It's a contaminated wire exposed to oxides now and if used, would never pass code. It also should never pass muster for a shade-tree mechanic or even a family run fab shop. While the weld bead may look pretty, it can never be trusted or relied upon for its shear and tensile strength characteristics any longer.

Ok, Tombstone, I was just saying it could be used to make a respectable weld.
I'll weld a t-joint and bend it for you and get some good pics, with and without c25, Ok?
Its just some old Hobart .035 that's been uot in the shed for several years....
John

[Tombstone]

If you come across a bucket load of old out in the air flux cored wire, buy it, if its cheap...
Most times it will make a bunch of porosity filled beads, so you can hook up a bottle of c25 @ 10-16 cfh...
That fill fix your porosity problems and make a nice looking bead....
Duel shield my good man
John

Umm pardon me, but where would someone find a "bucket load" of air exposed flux core wire? I've never agreed with using shielding gas and common "Home Depot" bought Lincoln FCAW-S wire. For starters, self-shielded flux-core (FCAW-S) is not meant to be used with shielding gas at all, period.

Second, both gas-shielded flux-core (FCAW-G) and metal cored wire (MCAW) are to be used EXCLUSIVELY WITH a type of shielding GAS. Without the shielding gas of FCAW-G wire, porosity would result every time. The cored wire with FCAW-G is solely used to mix alloying agents into the weld and NOT used for "shielding" characteristics. (That's what the shielding gas is for). Some FCAW-G and MCAW wire can be used with more than one type of shielding gas (100% C02) or a 75/25% Ar/C02 gas mix. Some manufacturers' FCAW-G wires are designed to work exclusively with ome specific type of gas or gas mix.

Last point: simply thinking that the gas shield mix added to FCAW-S wire will make that old air exposed crap wire something "magical" is incorrect. It's a contaminated wire exposed to oxides now and if used, would never pass code. It also should never pass muster for a shade-tree mechanic or even a family run fab shop. While the weld bead may look pretty, it can never be trusted or relied upon for its shear and tensile strength characteristics any longer.

Ok, Tombstone, I was just saying it could be used to make a respectable weld.
I'll weld a t-joint and bend it for you and get some good pics, with and without c25, Ok?
Its just some old Hobart .035 that's been uot in the shed for several years....
John

AK, it's all good my friend. I just wouldn't want someone to think that it could be used for something critical. It's like many new people wrongly believe they can use a 110v mig welder to build trailers and weld up a bumper winch. I know you didn't mean it that way, but someone reading your post might think otherwise with a "brainstorm."

[AKweldshop]

Righto mate,
It confuses new guys to the trade, that you CAN weld up trailers and bumper winches with a 1/8 7018, 20% duty cycle, at 135a
But you CAN'T do any thing close with a Lincoln 135a mig with 20% duty cycle
Don't under weld anything.
have a man do a mans job!!!

John

[Tombstone]

Righto mate,
It confuses new guys to the trade, that you can weld up trailers and bumper winches with a 1/8 7018, 20% duty cycle, at 135a
But you can't do any thing close with a Lincoln 135a mig with 20% duty cycle
Don't under weld anything.
have a man do a mans job!!!

John

Yup, you're absolutely right. It's likewise just as confusing that DC- produces the most shallow penetration characteristics for SMAW, but for FCAW, DC- produces the "deepest" and is MANDATORY for that specific process. Strange how electricity works different for different processes.

[Superiorwelding]

While I absolutely agree that flux core left out for to long shouldn't be used for critical welds, I am curious if you could get that wire pass inspection/bend test. I have some .035 self shield wire that has been in the basement for about 2 years, I will try to get it out some time and put your theory to the test. I also have some duel shield that was given to us for a sample and has been out for at least 1 year, we are using for some drip pans. It works fine for this application. These pans would only contain at the most 10 gallons of fluid and should never even have drips in them but the EPA requires them. I think they will hold somewhere around 100 gallons of fluid though. This wire was free and the welds will never see any load. the welds are die penetrant checked as well and they all passed on first try. The point is there are applications where you could use "bad" wire, but I would NEVER use this wire for anything critical.

[AKweldshop]

The point is there are applications where you could use "bad" wire, but I would NEVER use this wire for anything critical.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[Superiorwelding]

AKweldshop
Well curiosity has got the better of me...I went in the basement and found the self-shield flux core, changed gas to C-25 and welded 1/4" test samples with it in the 1G position, 3/32 gap, no backing bar. Remember this wire has been open for over 2 years and my basement is not the driest in the world. I did the hammer test on one plate and it held up fine. The second sample I will bend in the morning and post pictures.

[Superiorwelding]

Here you go.
First specs. Wire Harris Ten Gauge mild steel self shielding .035. Wire speed 400, 23.5 volts. Gas C25, 25 cfh.
I grabbed a couple pieces of 1/4" plate and beveled them with a 1/16" land, 3/32 gap. Single pass, I got full penetration of approx. 3/32 ish. I am only doing this to see if it would break on a hammer test. I bent two sets of samples and neither one showed any signs of cracking at all. Remember this wire has been out for at least 2 years and has rust starting to form on the outer layer of spool.
NOTE: I was not trying to lay down a pretty bead nor necessarily following testing rules. I was just curious.

[AKweldshop]

so what did you conclude???
did you also run a bead with just the straight wire, no gas???

Opinion of the time you spent on my theory????

John

[Superiorwelding]

I did run a bead with no gas and it ran fine. It seemed to look hotter with the gas but I don't know. I did run beads side by side and noticed no huge difference in welds. It seemed that with gas the slag was blown away from the weld puddle while welding. The gas weld was a little wider but not by much. It could also be that my travel speed changed between welds. As for a final conclusion I still say there is a place for "bad" wire, but it is does not belong on something that would be critical or support life on it. How would you or I feel if our weld failed because we thought it was fine and it wasn't? I guess one thing to remember is most hobbyist welders that are using self shield wire probably have it on their machine out in the open for quite a long time and never give it a thought. I know someone who has a machine set up in his garage with self shield and I know for a fact it has been at least 6 years since he put it on. He does not use this machine very often and probably never gives it a thought when he used it.

[AKweldshop]

Did the bead you ran with no gas have porosity throughout????

John

[Superiorwelding]

As far as my opinion of the time I spent on your theory, I would not say it was a waste at all. I learned something. Although swinging the sledge hammer was kind of a pain in the butt!
I had absolutely no porosity in my gasless welds but that is not to say someone else wouldn't as well.
I would find it interesting for someone else to perform a similar test and see what they come up with.
Otto what do you think?

[AKweldshop]

If your "gasless" welds DID NOT have noticeable porosity your wire was in better shape than mine, for sure.
I had lots of porosity in mine, I tried baking it at 200deg f* and the wire still produced some undesirable bead inconsistency.
I get some pics here, soon.
John

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,

Maybe AK, your gasless required a change of polarity as well.

Mick

[AKweldshop]

No, I had it in the right polarity.
It was just that the flux was full of moisture, and it had some very detrimental porosity..... even after being baked.

John

[weldin mike 27]

ewwww. Art wire only lol. makes good tumble weeds.

[AKweldshop]

I'll Chucke test it and see if it holds....

John

[noddybrian]

Yea - the Lanse scientific test - I like it ! - but the ultimate test is his new mate ( Pete ) called the Schneetigger77 test - he's got a bigger hammer & can really wail on something ! - hoping they'll do some more video's together.