[Jakedaawg]

Well, awhile back I was gonna pull the trigger and buy the HTP 2400. I believed that was a 280 amp transformer mig.

I hesitated.

Now I am needing a mig with balls. I dont think I want an inverter. I am sure I dont. Big heavy coils of copper on wheels will do what I want.

With that said htp is out, China and pandemic...not gonna spend my money there.

So, Hobart 240 is tranformer. Does Miller or Lincoln have one? I read through all the pdf's but I can't tell which 280-300 amp or better machines are transformer based.

[Oscar]

Look at the weight. A 300A transformer machine will be near 200lbs. A 400A transformer MIG probably 250-300lbs (the higher the duty cycle @ max amps, the heavier it will be). But then you're already into the separate-wire-feeder type of territory.

[Jakedaawg]

Thanks, didnt dawn on me but makes all the sense in the world.

Are there disadvantages to having to go with a separate wire feed box? Advantages?

I primarily weld dirty aluminum in the marine world, skegs, pontoons, boat hoists and such. My dynasty has that covered.

Recently the local welding place quit taking outside business so I found myself with all all the marinas I do business with needing steel welded as well. My little 210mp is not up to the task wire feed wise. I want to be able to buy the big spools of wire and not deal with the glitch in the feed rolls the 210 has. It can only run .030 wire smooth. A bunch of boat trailer work and motor tank work.

[G-ManBart]

Well, awhile back I was gonna pull the trigger and buy the HTP 2400. I believed that was a 280 amp transformer mig.

I hesitated.

Now I am needing a mig with balls. I dont think I want an inverter. I am sure I dont. Big heavy coils of copper on wheels will do what I want.

With that said htp is out, China and pandemic...not gonna spend my money there.

So, Hobart 240 is tranformer. Does Miller or Lincoln have one? I read through all the pdf's but I can't tell which 280-300 amp or better machines are transformer based.

The Millermatic 252 and 350P are both transformer machines. Lincoln's Power Mig 256 and 350MP are both transformer machines as well. Any of those four are very solid machines. I haven't used 350P yet, but I've used the other three and been very impressed.

[Oscar]

Pop-Quiz Time! Put your notes away, no talking, face the front of the class.

Question #1: What kind of scenario do you see yourself in:

1. I need to weld thick steel (1⁄2"+) occasionally
2. I need to weld thick steel (1⁄2"+) very frequently/constantly
3. I need to weld not so thick steel (1⁄4" - 1⁄2") occasionally
4. I need to weld not so thick steel (1⁄4" - 1⁄2") very frequently/constantly
5. I need to weld thin steel (<1⁄4")

Answer:______________

[cj737]

Thanks, didnt dawn on me but makes all the sense in the world.

Are there disadvantages to having to go with a separate wire feed box? Advantages?

I primarily weld dirty aluminum in the marine world, skegs, pontoons, boat hoists and such. My dynasty has that covered.

Recently the local welding place quit taking outside business so I found myself with all all the marinas I do business with needing steel welded as well. My little 210mp is not up to the task wire feed wise. I want to be able to buy the big spools of wire and not deal with the glitch in the feed rolls the 210 has. It can only run .030 wire smooth. A bunch of boat trailer work and motor tank work.

Disadvantage is you need a power source for the welding. Advantages are they can weld all damn day forever, shoot larger wire, and you can run 33# spools.

If this newfound business is worth it, you might consider an AirPak 200 and an 8vs wire feeder. The AirPak will power your Dynasty or 8vs or 210mp, plus it’s really good DC Stick machine AND a full duty compressor. Always handy to have air while being mobile. They run about 10k though... plus another $1500 for the 8vs. You could even swap to a Spoolgun for the ally work run from it.

[Jakedaawg]

Pop-Quiz Time! Put your notes away, no talking, face the front of the class.

Question #1: What kind of scenario do you see yourself in:

1. I need to weld thick steel (1⁄2"+) occasionally
2. I need to weld thick steel (1⁄2"+) very frequently/constantly
3. I need to weld not so thick steel (1⁄4" - 1⁄2") occasionally
4. I need to weld not so thick steel (1⁄4" - 1⁄2") very frequently/constantly
5. I need to weld thin steel (<1⁄4")

Answer:______________

D mostly. Alot of 1/4 and 3/8. Trailers and snowplow and plow trucks. I figure my little 210 will be a keeper. It does okay on 1/8" brackets and such.

[Jakedaawg]

@Oscar. Answer would be D. This has been 2 to three days a week and I haven't been looking for the work.

[G-ManBart]

Advantages are they can weld all damn day forever, shoot larger wire, and you can run 33# spools.

You can run 33# spools on full-size roll-around machines like a MM252 or Lincoln PM256 as well...no need to go to the larger machines with a separate wire feeder for that.

[Oscar]

@Oscar. Answer would be D. This has been 2 to three days a week and I haven't been looking for the work.

Then I'd say you need a 350-400A machine so that the duty cycle @ 300A will be at least 60% or so.

[cj737]

Advantages are they can weld all damn day forever, shoot larger wire, and you can run 33# spools.

You can run 33# spools on full-size roll-around machines like a MM252 or Lincoln PM256 as well...no need to go to the larger machines with a separate wire feeder for that.

Yes, you can. However, transporting one of those "roll around" machines to a marina to perform work may not be terribly convenient. Hence, the suggestion maybe to consider an engine-driven welder/generator and separate wire feed. No need for a separate power source, all day full duty welding, flexibility for location-based work. Heck, I've welded off one in the driveway of the shop when the work needed to be performed outside and it was a lot more convenient to back up the truck to the work than to move the work (a dozer blade repair) into the shop.

[Poland308]

I’ve got a buddy who runs a 210 dynasty and a trailblazer for power. Does loads of marina work.

[BillE.Dee]

hey Jake,,congrats on the the work gain. IF, I were you I believe I'd be looking into an engine driven machine. You just know the work demand is going to take you away from the shop and people just hate hauling stuff around. All you're going to hear is "hey Jake, my boat lift is cracking",,,"hey Jake, can ya come fix my party boat in the driveway?" and your answer will be "YEPPPP, I can take your money". Just my 2 cents. Go for the gusto.
gramps

[Jakedaawg]

I must have confused something. Everything I do comes to my shop, period. No mobile work. Its just not worth it. Costs too much to be mobile and all these shops have lots of young strong guys. They load it on my work barge and haul it to me. Customers willingly pay.

[Jakedaawg]

thanks Oscar. I was thinking the 280-300 amp wire feeds would be fine. I guess I'll do the 350 from lincoln. Seems to fit in the suggestions and its less than 6 grand. It'll pay for itself in weeks. Maybe 2nmonths tops.

[Poland308]

My buddy has a $500. Minimum just to show up and look. Work is $120 an hour for travel work.

[Oscar]

thanks Oscar. I was thinking the 280-300 amp wire feeds would be fine. I guess I'll do the 350 from lincoln. Seems to fit in the suggestions and its less than 6 grand. It'll pay for itself in weeks. Maybe 2nmonths tops.

While that machine (the Lincoln 350MP) is big and heavy, and surely has transformers in some capacity, just from the fact that it has Synergic welding modes and double-pulse tells me that it is more Inverter than "old skool transformer". Not saying it won't work for you, because honestly it seems like the best fit with a great duty cycle @ 300A. But I've never seen a non-inverter, only-transformer-MIG with Synergic capability and double-pulse capability. If my speculation is true, then it doesn't fit your requirements you stated in your initial post about not wanting an inverter.

What does everyone think? This is the brochure from Lincoln for the PowerMIG 350MP.

[cj737]

I must have confused something. Everything I do comes to my shop, period. No mobile work. Its just not worth it. Costs too much to be mobile and all these shops have lots of young strong guys. They load it on my work barge and haul it to me. Customers willingly pay.

My bad. I misread that you were now performing work at the marina.

So, a shop only machine it is! Roll-around joy
I’d look closely at this beauty- https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/w ... der-m02714

Single or three phase, supports optional spoolgun, weighs 80#. 450 amps capable.

[Oscar]

I must have confused something. Everything I do comes to my shop, period. No mobile work. Its just not worth it. Costs too much to be mobile and all these shops have lots of young strong guys. They load it on my work barge and haul it to me. Customers willingly pay.

My bad. I misread that you were now performing work at the marina.

So, a shop only machine it is! Roll-around joy
I’d look closely at this beauty- https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/w ... der-m02714

Single or three phase, supports optional spoolgun, weighs 80#. 450 amps capable.

buuuut it's an inverter, lol. Capable, heck yea. But it inverts.

[JayWal]

I have the older version of the 350MP, PowerMig 300, it was later changed to the 350MP but it is basically the exact same machine.

I know what you mean, Oscar its kinda in between old skool and inverter. Heck it even has upgradable software. Still the guts are still copper coils, it weighs a metric crap ton, and needs fairly hefty breaker to run, so id still call it a transformer machine.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[BugHunter]

Maybe I'm just not seeing the reasoning, but it doesn't appear as if a Transformer machine really buys you any duty cycle and certainly doesn't look like they save you any money. Why would you want one at that point?

[G-ManBart]

Maybe I'm just not seeing the reasoning, but it doesn't appear as if a Transformer machine really buys you any duty cycle and certainly doesn't look like they save you any money. Why would you want one at that point?

I'm not the OP, but I'm pretty sure that most people who want a transformer machine want one at least somewhat because right now they are more reliable than inverter machines, and can much more readily be repaired at the component level rather than board level if something goes wrong.

I've had an inverter machine develop issues and the fix was to send me a couple of boards that essentially replaced the entire machine...luckily under warranty. They don't seem to troubleshoot those boards either...replacement is the only procedure. If you're under warranty it's not such a big deal, but after that you're often better off just replacing the entire machine because the parts are so expensive. Transformer machines might have an individual component fail, but they can almost always be replaced and the cost usually isn't too painful.

[BugHunter]

I'm not the OP, but I'm pretty sure that most people who want a transformer machine want one at least somewhat because right now they are more reliable than inverter machines, and can much more readily be repaired at the component level rather than board level if something goes wrong.

I've had an inverter machine develop issues and the fix was to send me a couple of boards that essentially replaced the entire machine...luckily under warranty. They don't seem to troubleshoot those boards either...replacement is the only procedure. If you're under warranty it's not such a big deal, but after that you're often better off just replacing the entire machine because the parts are so expensive. Transformer machines might have an individual component fail, but they can almost always be replaced and the cost usually isn't too painful.

Gotcha,

I don't weld enough to be constantly spending money on new machines, so I just don't shop that much. My experience has been with both machines, and I have yet to see the benefit of the transformer machines. I had one, a 350A AC/DC Tig/Stick that was an awesome welder, but weighed 400-500 pounds and was gigantic. I replaced it with a Dynasty I can lift, cooler and all, and can't imagine going back. Had it not been so big, I would have kept it, especially for the paltry money I got for it. ($500). But there's only been 1 or two occasions in 20 years that I wanted the higher amps, but there's been 1000s of times I wanted the floor space.

Given his stated use that's pretty heavy, I would figure that over-kill buying a larger machine would be the way to go since the thing that kills welders is guys who overstretch the duty cycle and drive the machines into thermal shutdown. There's a reason they finally say 'enough', I find when I don't do that, welders live forever.

[Oscar]

I'm not the OP, but I'm pretty sure that most people who want a transformer machine want one at least somewhat because right now they are more reliable than inverter machines, and can much more readily be repaired at the component level rather than board level if something goes wrong.

I've had an inverter machine develop issues and the fix was to send me a couple of boards that essentially replaced the entire machine...luckily under warranty. They don't seem to troubleshoot those boards either...replacement is the only procedure. If you're under warranty it's not such a big deal, but after that you're often better off just replacing the entire machine because the parts are so expensive. Transformer machines might have an individual component fail, but they can almost always be replaced and the cost usually isn't too painful.

Gotcha,

I don't weld enough to be constantly spending money on new machines, so I just don't shop that much. My experience has been with both machines, and I have yet to see the benefit of the transformer machines. I had one, a 350A AC/DC Tig/Stick that was an awesome welder, but weighed 400-500 pounds and was gigantic. I replaced it with a Dynasty I can lift, cooler and all, and can't imagine going back. Had it not been so big, I would have kept it, especially for the paltry money I got for it. ($500). But there's only been 1 or two occasions in 20 years that I wanted the higher amps, but there's been 1000s of times I wanted the floor space.

Given his stated use that's pretty heavy, I would figure that over-kill buying a larger machine would be the way to go since the thing that kills welders is guys who overstretch the duty cycle and drive the machines into thermal shutdown. There's a reason they finally say 'enough', I find when I don't do that, welders live forever.

Yea it all depends on the sophistication of the protection circuitry and how close the threshold is to actual component damage as well. According to the manuals for my MIGs, the "thermal shutdown" occurs well before any damage can happen to the machine. So it's like a thermal-shutdown-before-the-actual-thermal-shutdown, which is why the manual says it does not matter how many times you drive the machine to that state it will not be damaged by it.

But yea I agree he needs an overkill machine of something like 350A @ 50%+ duty cycle, so the duty cycle at 300A is more like 80%+. That should be able to handle his needs, but of course it all depends how long the long, continuous welds are.

[Chris H]

I would seriously look at the Lincoln power mig 360 MP. It is rated at a duty cycle of 60% at 320 amps and 100 percent at 250 amps. In addition, it does pulsed mig and is an incredible aluminum welder with a push pull gun capability. It is a truly industrial machine meant to weld all day. It is what they call a hybrid inverter transformer machine with the benefits of both technologies. Weighs something like 267 lbs so you won’t want to transport it to job sites. You also need a 90 amp circuit but it is meant for single phase operation. The blue version is very similar and Lincoln still sells the 350 MP. Both are also great stick welders and can do lift tig and pulse tig. They also do pulse on pulse for aluminum. Tons of advanced controls like dig, balance, inductance, frequency, etc. it will be a machine that could readily last you 30 years.