Mig Tank

CraigLam · Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:59 am

Guys, sup? My computer crashed. All the passwords were dumped, so, it took me a while to reset everything. Anyway, my tube bender needs a little tweeking before I put it into action. I seriously need a mig tank. I want to switch to mig. USA Weld in Chicago has a tank for $75. It's 55CF. $35 shipping. I cannot find anything cheaper. I can't stand the spatter from FCAW and the results are too porous. Like everyone else, money is an issue. Eastwood has nothing and Craigslist is a little scary. The 40's are even more expensive than the 55's. Any tips?

delraydella · Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:42 pm

look on Craigslist for tanks, that's where i bought mine from. Make sure your gas dealer will refill them before you buy, though. Also look for the inspection dates stamped on the tanks to be sure that they are even refillable.

Other Steve

CraigLam · Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:10 am

I searched Craigslist. They were pretty expensive. I called Gardena Welding supply and told them of the 55 CF tank for 70 bucks and they said to jump on it. The ones they have are $140. To fill the tanks are 29 dollars. That's a real bargain. Cameron and Praxair charge about 50. These tanks come with new valves and are hydro tested and guaranteed for 10 years. You can see them on ebay just type in "Argon/CO2 welding tank". It does cost 30 bucks to ship, but, it's still a bargain. This weekend, I'll probably spend some time on the tube bender.
http://s1207.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... sort=6&o=0

delraydella · Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:26 am

That is a good deal.

Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:42 am

Hey there,

Ive got a rental for my tig at the moment but when (and If) it runs out, Im gunna get on the disposable ones, 39 dollars for a tank and 39 dollars for the small special regulator its suitable for my very limited home tigging. Unless I get a big special job for some one then its back to rental. BTW im in Australia but I think you can buy the disposable ones anywhere. BTW 2 You are not allowed to own your on cylinders in AUS i think.

http://www.bobthewelder.com.au/home.php ... e=Y&cat=54

This is what im talking about.

Mick

CraigLam · Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:49 pm

Mike, I thought about a disposable tank. But, they only last 20 min. 60 CF tank will last about 3 hours and costs $29 to fill. I'm also having another problem, sort of. My mig is set all the way up on amps and all the way down on wire speed. It does a good job. But won't work on thin sheet metal. That's why using arg/co2 should solve that problem. The way money is right now, I just have to wait. I have to practice more with FCAW. I was welding a pipe to the base of a tube bender I'm making, and was not getting the result. I really had to watch my technique and watch the weld pool and pay attention. Then things came out really nice. Mig is more forgiving. I guess I'm going to have to be patient. I should be o.k. by the end of the month.

delraydella · Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:37 pm

In mig, wire speed is amps, the higher the speed the higher the amps. Voltage controls the size of the bead and should be somewhat proportional to amperage. For thin materials, you want a relatively low amperage (or low wire speed) and something akin to welding in small tacks to not blow through. Don't try to run a single bead all at once, it will most likely melt the material.

Other Steve

Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:44 pm

Hey,

I see your point on the disposables. Ill need some more research on the topic. You said that mig is more forgiving, however the cold hard truth is that it is very easy to do badly. You can just hold the trigger and move a bit and the weld will look alright but in reality if you are not understanding what is happening, its easy to lay down welds that are no better than Calk. Good rule is always make sure the arc is hitting fresh metal and test some practice welds with a big hammer to check for lack of fusion.

Regards from Mick

CraigLam · Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:22 pm

Delraydella, that's exactly what I did. When the beads started getting blotchy, I backed off and started a counterclockwise weldpool. The welds were so good, I had to chip off the slag with my chipping hammer. The adhesion was great. When I was going to welding school, we had alot of instruction with mig, but, no FCAW. We used .025 and welded thin metal. Tomorrow, I'm gonna practice more of what you're talking about. I'm gonna weld from E to D and turn up the amps and see how that works. It's all in the weld pool.

CraigLam · Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:52 pm

Del, your advice was gold. I adjusted the wire speed and took my time and focused. It came out pretty good. I took a picture. Not perfect, but, o.k.

Almost looks like stick welded.

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:41 pm

As you said, "not perfect", but pretty damn good, and a solid step toward... Excellent. Strive for perfect, but don't expect it.

As someone I know says in his signature on the IPR forum,

Perfection is impossible, but if you strive for perfection, excellence is attainable.

A good perspective.

Steve S.

delraydella · Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:09 pm

You're getting there!

When you go to do the thinwall tubing for your bike, you'll find that it's a bit different monster, especially that it's far easier to blow through the ends of the tubing. But if you use the same small tack method, the chances of blowing through it will diminish greatly. You'll have to adjust the wire speed accordingly as you first start the weld to get to the sweet spot. Once you have it fairly well tacked together, it's a good idea to run another weld over everything. This will fill in anything you might have missed and will fuse it all together giving you a good solid joint.

Thinwall tubing also is easier (somewhat) if you saddle cut the joints for a tight fit. If you don't have a saddle cutter, they are pretty easy to make. The cheapo saddle cutters from Harbor Freight work okay, too.

Keep working at it, you'll get it!

Other Steve

CraigLam · Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:53 pm

Delray, I finally ordered my 60 CF tank. It will UPS here on Wednesday. I was talking to USA Weld and Jeff, the salesman, and asked if .035 is good for thick material. He says to stick with .025 when welding with Ar/CO2. I thought the whole purpose of getting a commercial welder was to weld thicker metal. I have .030. How's your experience with .030 and .035 with a mig 140 or something similar?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:56 pm

Hey,

In Australia, .9 or 0.35 is the common "small" size I have used it for everything from 1.0mm sheet to 10mm plate. Step up to 0.45 if you need higher heat for longer or higher deposition rate. 0.35 should perfect for the range of material thinkness you will encounter. Especially with a quality machine like the Lincoln.

Mick

Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:01 pm

Agreed.

.035 is my MIG go-to. It does everything I've ever asked of it.

Steve S

delraydella · Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Same here. I've had very few reasons to go above or below .035. It covers a very wide range of thicknesses ,from 18 gauge up to a 1/4 inch, basically everything that I've ever encountered.

This is a good reference chart for wire thickness and speed..........http://www.airgas.com/content/details.a ... 0000000143

Other Steve

delraydella · Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:27 am

Now that I think about it, I've even used .035 for 3/8ths " walled square tube and it worked just fine, so you can go thicker than 1/4" with it.

O.S.

CraigLam · Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:40 pm

Thanks, guys. I think Jeff sells welding equipment, but, not experienced in welding. I have some .025 and .030. I'm gonna start in the middle with .030. I have the drive wheel for that. I'm gonna start my new project Wed. with 2x2x 1/4 square tube steel. 'm gonna do a fillet weld to keep the bead down. I'll post some pictures. Thanks for the chart.

CraigLam · Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:42 pm

Tuh Duuuuuuh! Mig tank.

Definitely going to have to paint this another color. Multi-gas valve. $100 delivered.

delraydella · Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:54 pm

Nice!

CraigLam · Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:48 pm

I get paid Wed. and I'm going to fill up my tank for the first time. I'm gonna use up my flux core, first. My neighbor gave me a bunch of spools of mig wire, so, I'm saving money by just filling the tank. $29.00. Praxair and Cameron wanted $45.00 and that was exchange. I told them that I have my own tank and wanted it filled. They said they don't fill them here, they send them out. I said, "Bye". Can't hardly wait. I'll probably have a million questions.

CraigLam · Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:00 pm

I filled up the tank. $28. Not bad. I set it at 15cfh and it welded fine. Should it be more? I've heard that 25cfh was the normal. The weld came out bulbous, if you know what I mean. But, it held very well. Penetration was good.

delraydella · Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:00 pm

i usually average about 20 for steel, 25 for aluminum. You should probably get a chart and go from there, you don't want to waste gas.

edited and added...Here's a pretty good chart for gas flow requirements.....http://www.netwelding.com/MIG_Flow%20Rate-Chart.htm

CraigLam · Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:37 am

Thanks, Del. I got alot of welding to do today. I'll try 20 and see how that works.

pscampsr · Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:01 am

If you are having really poor welds with FC, make sure your polarity is correct. It should most likely be DCEN, DC Electrode Negative. Solid wire / gas is normally DCEP. If you are not sure, check with the manufacturer. The wrong polarity with FC will produce welds like you described or as Jody says, look like Fido's butt.