Welding Tips and Tricks

Bio~ new to welding(no experience)
Want to learn how to cut a jeep frame(aprox 3/16) and re-weld the sections back in.
a better visual would be to cut frame in half and add a 10" section for a stretched jeep.
i was told (online) that even with a welding class,practice,learning from videos,and more practice it couldnt be done as it takes YEARS of learning!!!!!!
Please "Help me"
please help me find the most efficient ways to learn to weld frames.
fyi im ready to but a hh 210 soon as someone can help me dispel this thought and ready to get learning.
Guys i just cant see it taking years and the material to learn must be out there.
Thank You so so so much

First off, welcome aboard.
Is this your frame? Hopefully it's not someone else's that you wish to learn on.
If it's mig you're talking about, take a class and learn to run vertical up and overhead
proficiently before even attempting a frame stretch.
Your best bet is to find some identical frame pieces to use in the stretch.With
a good fit-up I would weld the inside first then back grind the outside down to bright shiny
metal and then weld the outside. This is known as a full penetration weld.
Personally, I would also fish plate the repaired area for added strength.

Where are you located? Ask around for others that have done it in your area.
I've never stretched a Jeep frame but have stretched many a big truck frame.

You are not just talking about learning to weld.
You are also talking about learning to fabricate correctly for a safe vehicle.

What if someone with experience told you it would take a good class and one year experience of welding/fabrication for you to be ready - is that too long of a time frame?

If only one class and one year experience sounds ridiculous to you then you should farm it out.
I don't say this with intent of making you not learn to weld, just be reasonable in terms of learning time when it comes to safety.

Like said above, I've never stretched a jeep, just heavy frames.

This is doable, but I agree you should start with the welding skills. No amount of engineering and fabrication advice we can give are worth a hoot until you can perform the welds competently.

That said, the learning curve for MIG is fairly short for most people, as the MIG process reduces the variables you have to control for a good quality weld.

I have done frame stretches before (even worked in a limousine shop many years ago, and in my curent job designed heavy trailer sub-frames), and can offer suggestions for "best practices" for the fabrication. I'd prefer to hold that, until you're confident in your welding skills. This includes setting up test coupons to attempt to destroy, to prove to yourself that the welds do what you ask them to do.

Please take this as encouragement. You CAN do it. Just don't let your enthusiasm get ahead of your skill level; do it when you're ready.

Steve S

Thanks for the well thought out responses. i am grateful for every tip and suggestion that can be offered.
replys i live in sw michigan bloomingdale.
Steve S. thank You for letting me know this can be done and for offering me help.
this is my frame in Great condition and i dont plan on "experimenting with my life either.

totally doable Get some practice material, and start practicing exactly what you'll be doing.

I'd fishplate probably both long sides, probably wouldn't hurt to even do all 4 sides, especially if you aren't confident with your weld penetration. Do you have 220 power? That will definitely help.

Grind off any rust or paint, and have at it! Put a chamfer/bevel on the frame pieces (I probably wouldn't bevel the fish plates) and zap it up Is your jeep frame boxed, or C channel? If it's C channel, I'd probably box the surrounding area after you extend it. The longer frame will be under more load, and a boxed jeep frame is just better anyway

Jeeps are what got me into welding too. No, it doesn't take years to learn how to MIG weld decently. If you have some scrap material and some free time, you can be pretty confident after a few good weekends of welding if your decently setup, especially if you have someone there who can kind of show you the ropes. Practice practice practice. A friend of mine just started MIG welding, he took a few weekend classes and has been over to my place twice working on a project, and his welds are looking great It took me a bit longer, cause I had nobody around to tell me what I was doing wrong. MIG is pretty easy. But definitely practice your joints first, so you know what to expect and can test and inspect your welds before doing them for real on the jeep.

I'd definitely practice your up-hill welds before doing anything on the frame. I've welded on the frame and axles of both of my jeeps (motor mounts, spring mounts, shock mounts, skid plates), even with 110 powered MIG/flux it's doable. But 220 would be better though. It's different than welding on the bench though, sometimes you have to get into odd positions to even see what you're doing. Get as comfortable on the ground as you can, and definitely wear a long sleeve shirt, or better yet a leather welding jacket, and a welding hat under your helmet. Sparks down your shirt or in your hair are no fun when you are laying down and can't move A decent leather welding jacket is pretty cheap. If you weld on the ground alot, definitely worth getting.

Jeepfun,
Considering the question and the responses I am thinking maybe you could/should find a friend or acquaintance that is a skilled welder and fabricator and ask him to help you with your frame stretch. It sounds to me like you are wanting this to happen sooner than later and it is better to have good help first than to have I redo it later because it was not correct. This person can start to teach you some basic welding skills and you can watch/help during the repair. This should satisfy both tigers.
-Jonathan

Personal,
I would just but the frame together, weld it both sides.
Than put 1/4 by 2 flat bar on the top and bottom leg.
24" should be good.

Strong as anything.

In the jeep world, we call that a "fish plate", not really sure if that's a proper term or not, but this is how it looks alot of times:




Probably overkill, but the abuse some of these vehicles take, overkill can be a good thing

That is an excellent example.

Sadly, there's a flaw.

The plating of the top and bottom "flanges" are far more critical than the "web", the stuff in the middle.

The top and bottom flanges take the tensile and compressive loads, and should not have straight-line welds across them. This is where the elliptical shape of the fish-plate is needed most. You never want a straight-line weld across a critical member.

This idea has been around for a while, that the strength is in the web, and it must be plated. This is mostly false; The web is where you can drill lightening holes. The flanges are the critical area, and must be treated as such.

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:That is an excellent example.

Sadly, there's a flaw.

The plating of the top and bottom "flanges" are far more critical than the "web", the stuff in the middle.

The top and bottom flanges take the tensile and compressive loads, and should not have straight-line welds across them. This is where the elliptical shape of the fish-plate is needed most. You never want a straight-line weld across a critical member.

This idea has been around for a while, that the strength is in the web, and it must be plated. This is mostly false; The web is where you can drill lightening holes. The flanges are the critical area, and must be treated as such.

Steve S

Exactly, this is why a beam web is smaller than the flange. I once thought that the strength was in the web until taught otherwise.
Another way to weld that top strap is to stagger the welds. This way if one weld fails or cracks, it will not spread to the other welds. The other flaw I see in that design is WAY to much heat input. I would have to believe the Kj input has been exceeded.
-Jonathan

Wow Guys this is some really good help!
yes on the 220 ill most likely order a hobart 210 mvp pretty soon.
im really glad to know the how and why rather than just weld the inside of the frame and then plate the outside.
Yes tj frames are fully boxed,great condt,and not like thin cj frames.
Cant wait to get a welder and start practicing. links to the vids i should be watching would be great
btw i Will wait to weld on my frame as long as needed and be safe!

jeepfun wrote:...btw i Will wait to weld on my frame as long as needed and be safe!

That's an attitude we all respect!

Now, let's get that equipment set up, and burn some wire!

Steve S

Otto Nobedder wrote:

jeepfun wrote:...btw i Will wait to weld on my frame as long as needed and be safe!

That's an attitude we all respect!

Now, let's get that equipment set up, and burn some wire!

Steve S

...and share your pictures!
-Jonathan

Otto Nobedder wrote:That is an excellent example.

Sadly, there's a flaw.

The plating of the top and bottom "flanges" are far more critical than the "web", the stuff in the middle.

The top and bottom flanges take the tensile and compressive loads, and should not have straight-line welds across them. This is where the elliptical shape of the fish-plate is needed most. You never want a straight-line weld across a critical member.

This idea has been around for a while, that the strength is in the web, and it must be plated. This is mostly false; The web is where you can drill lightening holes. The flanges are the critical area, and must be treated as such.

Steve S

Normally all of the ones I see are not straight like the one in the top of the photo, they are angled like the one on the side, I guess they usually resemble the body of a fish, hence the name maybe? not sure, haha! I think alot of folks don't do the top and bottom though, just the sides.

Disagreed. The sides handle down or up forces and the top-bottom plates deal with twist.It's well done.
Sure. Braking one piece may(or may not) be better.Most don't have a brake that'll handle 1/4 x 12"-16" or even 3/16.

Antorcha wrote:Disagreed. The sides handle down or up forces and the top-bottom plates deal with twist.It's well done.
Sure. Braking one piece may(or may not) be better.Most don't have a brake that'll handle 1/4 x 12"-16" or even 3/16.

I think you need to do some engineering research.
-Jonathan

Antorcha,
If you think that is true, take a beam and flip it so it is a "H", suspend it out a 10' and see how much it flexes up and down. Now flip it to a "I" and so the same. You will see what we mean.
-Jonathan

Consider "engineered lumber". High-strength, thick/wide glue-laminations as top and bottom plates to take tensile and compressive loads, and thin oriented-strand board as a shearweb. Load it sideways, and break it in half. You can drill numerous holes in the OSB web for sewer pipes, conduit, etc, without compromising the strength, but cut a flange, and Whoops!

Steve S

There is a Wealth of Great info...ill also be saving all this on hard copy!
i really want to thank Everyone whom is contributing to making this a great resource for everyone whom comes across this.
The more tips and advice the less likely someone will half a** a project for the lack of a better term.
Please Keep posting and maybe this can be a sticky somewhere