[PlatinumArm]

I have been out of school for about 2 years now worked some pretty gnarly jobs. I'm just wondering how hard it would be for me to try and get in the Union?

I have my 6g cert on stick pipe. im currently getting better at tig but i can only practice for a few hours a day during monday-thursday

Any help would be nice.. I don't know anybody that is in that union. So i can't get grand fathered in..

i live in Tallahassee the closest union is in Tampa i think local 123

[jwmacawful]

a phone call to see if they are accepting new members would be a pretty good first step. also here in nyc when the unions are giving out apprentice applications they put a notice in the papers- they probably do the same down there.

[Otto Nobedder]

The unions will also accept your skills (not your certifications). A skills-test at the hall, done well, will allow you to start well above 1st year apprentice.

I've never worked union, but I have no objections to it. It's sound in principle. Union work is no better than your hall. Some are models of education, efficiency, and marketing. Some are "good 'ol boy" clubs.

I've worked some awesome jobs, and some clusterf^&ks, in the non-union world, and I've heard much the same from the union side, based on the local and it's attitude.

Steve S

[PlatinumArm]

thanks for the info! i called them they told me too send them my transcripts and some other info. but that was about it

[kermdawg]

I've been in the UA for over 5 years now. If you want to be a welder in the UA, be prepared to travel. They use welders like a tool, you use em until you don't need em anymore, than they lay you off. If your lucky, theres plenty of work locally and you can get another job in a week or two.

That being said, if you don't mind traveling, welders in our union get whatever they want. We don't have nearly enough and all the good ones follow the money. Unfortunately there's not steady work in most parts of the country right now so even the good ones are traveling the country doing power houses and shutdown/turnaround work at the refineries.

You MIGHT even be able to organize in as a journeyman, although many locals wont come out and tell you that. They would much rather have a second or third year apprentice weld for them at 20 bucks an hour than pay a journeyman twice the money for the same work. If your intent on working as a welder your whole life and don't really ever want to work as a plumber or pipefitter, than going through an apprenticeship is kinda a waste(although in my opinion, the more you can do the more employable you are. You also get a crap ton of college credits for your schooling.)

Anyway, when you call your local union hall ask for the organizing department and tell them your a welder(theres no such thing as "grandfathered in" anymore, its called organizing, and it's quite alive and well). They'll have you do a 6g pipe test, 6010 root 7018 fill/cap. Then if you can TIG you'll do a similar test with either a tig root and 7018 fill/cap or tig all the way out. Your current certs dont really matter you will still have to get a "UA" weld cert for each process you do, and there is 40 or 50 of em...everything from orbital welding to the wierd alloys that only get used on the nukes.

Just my two cents bro, I'm not a union officer or anything, but the hall has been pretty good to me so far...theres a few bad apples everywhere you go but overall most of the members are decent folk. If you bust ass and turn out a quality product you'll have a productive and profitable career...if you just show up and do the bare minimum you'll be out of work half the year like the rest of the slugs.

good luck!

[Otto Nobedder]

Kermdawg,

Just read your signature line... Seems you've updated.

Where'd that second one come from?

I ask because, "The difference between a journeyman and a craftsman? A journeyman talks about his check; A craftsman talks about his work..." has been my signature line in the Industrial Projects Report forum for three or four months, and I find it ironic to see it in your signature line.

I'm sure you didn't get it from IPR, due to the spelling and wording, so either someone copied it before you saw it, or someone beat me to it.

It's a small world, either way!

Steve S

[kermdawg]

@Otto-I dunno bro, I very well might have stole that from you over there. :/ I read enough of the posts over there.

But ya know, I had a long talk with my buddy at the job when I was working in Phoenix last year, and we talked long about the differance between "Journeyman" and "Craftsman". And it really, really stuck with me-I don't wanna be some dime-a-dozen boomer, I want to truly distinguish myself and my work from everyone else.

I think it's really something that's been lost in ALL of our trades, be it fitter, plumber, iron worker, carpenter, welder, sparky, tinner....There's just so little incentive to have perfect, balls-on work, and so much MORE incentive to mass-produce a meet your "production qouta", fuck the quality product-that the customer is paying top dollar for, and is not going to be satisfied with. Also, the company isn't going to like going back to fix the fucked up work, but they don't seem to care when you put in twice as much as the other guys.

Thats where the "Craftsman" comes in. A Craftsman can put it the same amount of product as one of these chinese or mexican, mass-produced "tradesman" but the quality is 10x what these guys put in.

A Craftsman doesn't make all the stupid little mental errors that you have to say "oh fuck I fucked up" and have to go fix those things.
A Craftsman plans and thinks at least a day or three steps ahead, very little is "unexpected".
A Craftsman knows his work dictates his paycheck, and may very well dictate his next job.
A Craftsman takes PRIDE in his work, because it is a reflection upon himself.

Sadly I am not all of these things yet. But I hope to be one day.

[Otto Nobedder]

Beautifully stated.

It's not unusual for me to spend my first ten minutes of the day with a cup of coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other, just staring at my work for the day. I'm not BSing with anyone. Just standing there.

The boss never questions this. He knows the ten or 15 minutes I spend in thought will save hours later, because I'm planning my work.

It's the "hurry up" Wal-Mart retail mentality that leads to poor work on the cheap that someone has to fix.

Steve S

[nathan]

Beautifully stated.

It's not unusual for me to spend my first ten minutes of the day with a cup of coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other, just staring at my work for the day. I'm not BSing with anyone. Just standing there.

The boss never questions this. He knows the ten or 15 minutes I spend in thought will save hours later, because I'm planning my work.

It's the "hurry up" Wal-Mart retail mentality that leads to poor work on the cheap that someone has to fix.

Steve S

Jeezus, thanks for having this conversation, guys. I've been wondering what a "craftsman" is, as I would like to call myself that one day. This is my starting point.

[Otto Nobedder]

This is just an opinion, but,

A craftsman looks for the best way to do his job.

It may or may not be the fastest. It may or not be the least expensive. However, it always results in the best quality he is capable of.

I wish I were always allowed to act this way.

Steve S

[nathan]

This is just an opinion, but,

A craftsman looks for the best way to do his job.

It may or may not be the fastest. It may or not be the least expensive. However, it always results in the best quality he is capable of.

I wish I were always allowed to act this way.

Steve S

What do you do when you're not allowed to? I've been told that you can pick two from a list of quality, speed, and cost. They seem to pick cost and speed most often. Why? and what do you do when your employer does this?

[Zach_T]

I am also trying to decide whether to go into the union apprentice program at the local 100 but there's also another welding school that's pricey but I just don't know which would be better?

[Otto Nobedder]

This is just an opinion, but,

A craftsman looks for the best way to do his job.

It may or may not be the fastest. It may or not be the least expensive. However, it always results in the best quality he is capable of.

I wish I were always allowed to act this way.

Steve S

What do you do when you're not allowed to? I've been told that you can pick two from a list of quality, speed, and cost. They seem to pick cost and speed most often. Why? and what do you do when your employer does this?

I suppose I should have put that more clearly in the past-tense. I'm now allowed to always put quality above all else, and my blood-pressure appreciates it.

I don't recall specifically how I responded when I was green, and was pushed for production over quality, but I do recall the transition to taking pride in my work over taking bullshit from a supervisor. I remember taking an ass-chewing while standing on two inches of ice on a 12* day for the time it was taking me to build a gas-train for a distiller's grain dryer. I also remember, when the arrogant little tweaker was done, telling him, "If you don't like this speed, you'll HATE my other one!" because I was done taking bullshit from little Hitler wannabe's, and I'd have thanked him for firing me that cold day, if he'd done it. He couldn't. Where do you get a replacement in the middle of nowhere when 12* is the high temp for the day?

BTW, The pipe superintendant for the job praised my work when he inspected the gas train I got bitched out for taking so long on. I was the only man on our crew to receive this dubious honor, as our crew was the "red-head stepchild" of the job.

I took pride in that, and never forgot how it felt to stand up for my own work ethic.

Steve S

[nathan]

...because I was done taking bullshit from little Hitler wannabe's...

I took pride in that, and never forgot how it felt to stand up for my own work ethic.

Steve S

That time is coming for me. Wish I'd heard something like your story sooner, coulda saved me some frustration.