[aland]

[no input needed]

[tungstendipper]

Looks good! So are you building this table so you can build your cart?

[aland]

Looks good! So are you building this table so you can build your cart?

Yes, EXACTLY! I have most of the pieces cut for the cart, but really needed something to build it on, and be able to use for tig as well. I'm pretty limited on space, so need it on casters.

Kind of a chicken and egg 'thang...LOL

I may have confused you by saying I wanted to build a cart like base for the certiflat table, I just meant with casters. I plan to keep my welder and argon tank together with all the cables and torches.

I do still want some type of support for cables I can use to hold from above to keep them up off the table...(if possible )

EDIT: I also would like to build some type of electrode holder out of PVC that could isolate the electrode from the table which is grounded. But I can figure something out, I really just want some place to hold the tig torch in a tube.

Alan

[cj737]

I would not expect too much from a 1/8" piece of steel for flatness, rigidity, or durability. Any time you weld on top of that, the ambient heat I think will "oil can" it and effect your layout. Just saying... I get that its temporary, most I'd use it for in layout is to apply some tacks, then I'd weld up on the ground. Relying on a surface that introduces abnormalities into your welding/project is just counterproductive in my experience. Stick welding that will require some pretty low amps too in order to avoid distortion.

For your true welding table, a piece of 1/2" or better, plate steel is all you need. 1/2" if the table will be small, 5/8" is better. You can drill some clamp holes in it yourself as needed with a Mag Drill (buy or rent one). A 5/8" annual cutter will make a single pass, machined quality hole through 5/8" in about 10 seconds. Then you can decide where, and how many holes you want, add a new set as you need, or just get it on and go!

[motox]

cj737
what brand 5/8" annual cutter do you use?
craig

[aland]

I would not expect too much from a 1/8" piece of steel for flatness, rigidity, or durability.

No, I'm not. It has some angle iron under the top to help support it, but in the past I've used it for just a stand.

I don't plan to do any critical setups on it, other than small stuff like the welding cart...but ultimately this will be replaced in 2-3 months.

Any time you weld on top of that, the ambient heat I think will "oil can" it and effect your layout. Just saying...

Indeed, I am aware of that. I don't think it will matter for a welding cart, and I do have some room in the garage if I move my 2nd car, or is the the 3rd or 4th car??? Either way I can make space...

For your true welding table, a piece of 1/2" or better, plate steel is all you need. 1/2" if the table will be small, 5/8" is better.

We're on the same page, in fact, that's why I want to get the certiflat table. I don't think I can build it for much less than I would spend to buy material doing it, and it would take some time to drill the holes. No plasma here...

For $200, I can get their 2'x3' ProTable. I can buy enough tube for about $30-$35 and re-purpose some casters and weld up a stand for it which is really similar to a welding cart structure.

I calculated that a 2'x3' piece of 1/2" plate would weigh approx. 125 lbs. That's about $80 at scrap price ($0.65/lb) or double that for new material. If I was buying new material I would start getting close to the price of the certiflat. Now, to be fair...the certiflat is not 1/2" thick plate, but the fact that it has the tab-n-slot grid on the bottom should keep it flat, and it has the holes in the top already. And yeah, I looked at used prices of MagDrills and they seem to go for about $400-$600 used for a decent Hougen or Milwaukee or similar. I would need a 5/8" annual cutter also, could pick one up but they aren't cheap...I know I could rent one, but haven't priced that, probably $30-$40/day. You get the idea...this is just temp until I can get the table, but since I can't build the table cheaper than the certiflat, for the interim I figure I would cut this table down, build the welding cart and use this to learn how to tig, and I could use it for stick welding also, just that I'm setting it up lower for a more comfortable tig table.

That's been the basis of wanting the certiflat, but what do you think about this idea? I have some firebricks, I was thinking to use those like pucks on this little table so I could fixture the tube fairly flat without getting so much heat to the table itself. I've seen people doing that with metal rounds, but even though firebrick is brittle and can crumble, I think it would be ok for some quick and dirty fixturing like the welding cart. Also if I weld over the edge of the table, it would keep the heat away from the surface as well. It is my plan because it is what I have.

What say ye? Does that make sense?

Alan

[LtBadd]

What say ye? Does that make sense?

Alan

Alan it sounds as if you have this well thought out, know your current limitations (table)and are capable of making it work for you, that's what its all about

[cj737]

cj737
what brand 5/8" annual cutter do you use?
craig

I’m not too picky with these as my drill is fluid fed, so they all seem to cut about the same. Champion, Hougen, I’ve even got a decent set of Evos but they’re only 1”. I’m far more particular about my cutting fluids (Walter Ice Cut)

[cj737]

I would not expect too much from a 1/8" piece of steel for flatness, rigidity, or durability.

No, I'm not. It has some angle iron under the top to help support it, but in the past I've used it for just a stand.

I don't plan to do any critical setups on it, other than small stuff like the welding cart...but ultimately this will be replaced in 2-3 months.

Any time you weld on top of that, the ambient heat I think will "oil can" it and effect your layout. Just saying...

Indeed, I am aware of that. I don't think it will matter for a welding cart, and I do have some room in the garage if I move my 2nd car, or is the the 3rd or 4th car??? Either way I can make space...

For your true welding table, a piece of 1/2" or better, plate steel is all you need. 1/2" if the table will be small, 5/8" is better.

We're on the same page, in fact, that's why I want to get the certiflat table. I don't think I can build it for much less than I would spend to buy material doing it, and it would take some time to drill the holes. No plasma here...

For $200, I can get their 2'x3' ProTable. I can buy enough tube for about $30-$35 and re-purpose some casters and weld up a stand for it which is really similar to a welding cart structure.

I calculated that a 2'x3' piece of 1/2" plate would weigh approx. 125 lbs. That's about $80 at scrap price ($0.65/lb) or double that for new material. If I was buying new material I would start getting close to the price of the certiflat. Now, to be fair...the certiflat is not 1/2" thick plate, but the fact that it has the tab-n-slot grid on the bottom should keep it flat, and it has the holes in the top already. And yeah, I looked at used prices of MagDrills and they seem to go for about $400-$600 used for a decent Hougen or Milwaukee or similar. I would need a 5/8" annual cutter also, could pick one up but they aren't cheap...I know I could rent one, but haven't priced that, probably $30-$40/day. You get the idea...this is just temp until I can get the table, but since I can't build the table cheaper than the certiflat, for the interim I figure I would cut this table down, build the welding cart and use this to learn how to tig, and I could use it for stick welding also, just that I'm setting it up lower for a more comfortable tig table.

That's been the basis of wanting the certiflat, but what do you think about this idea? I have some firebricks, I was thinking to use those like pucks on this little table so I could fixture the tube fairly flat without getting so much heat to the table itself. I've seen people doing that with metal rounds, but even though firebrick is brittle and can crumble, I think it would be ok for some quick and dirty fixturing like the welding cart. Also if I weld over the edge of the table, it would keep the heat away from the surface as well. It is my plan because it is what I have.

What say ye? Does that make sense?

Alan

Sure does if that’s the size you’re restricted to. If you opt the DIY route, and are within a reasonable distance, I’ll drop my Mag Drill off to you and you can poke holes until you go sterile. I’m in central VA and travel between MD and Adam weekly. Anywhere along that path?

[aland]

Alan it sounds as if you have this well thought out, know your current limitations (table)and are capable of making it work for you, that's what its all about

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I probably spend more time than needed and over think making my workspace as usable as I can, but I like to be comfortable if possible. tig welding requires patience and it seems to make sense to make the environment comfortable. I am limited on space and unfortunately budget so trying to work with what I have.

I recently moved some woodworking machine out of my home shop to make room for metalworking machine...truth be told, sawdust and oil/grease/swarf/soot just don't get a long well together...

Alan

[aland]

Ok, I should update this thread.

My LWS gave me some Harris Super MissleWeld...I used it to weld Chrome nuts to mild steel angle iron.

That got me the casters, then looking at it I decided to put a cross member from the front to back. I intentionally left the sides open, that way I could put my welder under the table if I wanted. I may do that for the interim. But the problem is the argon tank won't fit under there, and I want the argon together with the cart, that's the way it was meant to be.

I still need a torch holder, haven't decided what to do...was going to just use pipe, but the stubby kit doesn't seem well suited for that...the pipe I have is also pretty heavy. I think I may do something with a magnetic base. I have an idea to use an S hook I forged, cut it in half and use the two loops spaced to hold the torch. Mag base would probably be best in case I want to move it.

Alan

[tungstendipper]

Looking good Billy Ray! (what movie did that come from)

Go with the mag base.

Have you ever thought of finding someone who has a water jet to cut you a certiflat table top? I have a friend who has one and charges 90 bucks an hour. If you do the CAD drawing. I wish i knew this before ordering my Certiflat table.

BTW...My 3' X 4' Certiflat table wasn't flat. It had a 1/4" bow running down the center of the longest length. It even pulled and bowed the supports underneath! We solved it by ordering another 1/4" top ( the original top is 3/16") then I shimmed the outer edges and screwed the top down. This allow me adjust the bow as it settles. So now I have a top that is just short of being a 1/2"

[cj737]

Looking good Billy Ray! (what movie did that come from) Trading Places

Have you ever thought of finding someone who has a water jet to cut you a certiflat table top? I have a friend who has one and charges 90 bucks an hour. If you do the CAD drawing. I wish i knew this before ordering my Certiflat table. Besides water jetting the slots, you still need to mill both sides of the material to insure "flatness". A water jet can't do that. It can be done by Blanchard Grinding, but that costs extra money.

[tungstendipper]

Looking good Billy Ray! (what movie did that come from) Trading Places

Have you ever thought of finding someone who has a water jet to cut you a certiflat table top? I have a friend who has one and charges 90 bucks an hour. If you do the CAD drawing. I wish i knew this before ordering my Certiflat table. Besides water jetting the slots, you still need to mill both sides of the material to insure "flatness". A water jet can't do that. It can be done by Blanchard Grinding, but that costs extra money.

Certiflat tables aren't ground either. That's a luxury I dream about. I'm grateful just to have a 3" X 4" area that is level and some what flat. For years I had nothing, except for a 4' X 4' particle board table with a 1/2" bow in it. I don't understand the advantage for going with a ground table for welding. For machinist work it would be cat's meow. In a welding environment don't you have to worry about welding and grinding spatter? Then how do you clean it? I would be afraid of grinding on it, not mention welding on it.

[aland]

Go with the mag base.

Yeah, the more I think about it the better it is...I might have a an old Crapsman, I have 2 or 3 Nogas, but I think i have another older style with just pivot rods. I just need to adapt something with 3/8" pin.

Have you ever thought of finding someone who has a water jet to cut you a certiflat table top?

Well, they're certainly not the only game in town, and the StrongHand BuildPro tables are pretty nice as a couple others I've seen. But at the end of the day the Certiflat gives the tab-n-slot, it's the frame that allows you to secure it and weld it flat. Even if I was to make the plates, still needs the frame.

Most of the decent tables are like 5x (or more) than the Certiflat. Ideally I would like a 2'x2' fabblock. Maybe this will allow me to wait a bit and get that. The ProTable is what I was thinking, they have a 2'x3' table that is only $200. The 2'x2' FabBlock is $400. It has a lot of advantages, IMO. You can add FabWings to it, so you could extend the 2'x2'. some of the fixtures fit into the sides, like the Adjustable FabSquare, you can bolt it to the side of the table. The wings and squares seem pretty reasonable priced as you also weld them as well.

BTW...My 3' X 4' Certiflat table wasn't flat.

My understanding is that none of them are flat, it's when you clamp it all together when you weld it is what make it and keeps it flat. You can do that with u-bolts.

Are you saying that your table was not flat after you assembled it? If so, could be faulty parts. You should contact them.

So now I have a top that is just short of being a 1/2"

That's another thing with the fabBlocks, they have options for thicker material. Even still, I haven't heard of anyone complaining, unless it was assembled wrong. I've seen several videos of people welding them up, they seem very flat, even the ProTable and I think it's only 1/4". The frame is only 2" thick on those, where the fabBlock is 6" I think. But the 2x2 block will allow a lot of expansion and additions that work with the table.

For me the bottom line is that I won't be able to beat their cost. As it is, my freight might be less than other people as I'm in CA and much of their product ships UPS. Bigger stuff needs to go freight.

Alan (going to use this little table for a bit while I try to decide what to do)

[cj737]

If you want to fixture up something, having a table thats flat to a tolerance is important as everything you do during setup is based upon the table. But that's dependent upon what you're doing. Weld splatter is controlled with sprays or surface treatments.

Plate steel is not flat. Not by a long shot. Having it blanchard ground to within a reasonable tolerance is a great idea if your needs dictate. I had mine done to 0.01 because that's as critical as I wanted it. I have just always made my own tables because I want a larger surface than they sell for a reasonable price. And I want a much thicker slab for rigidity due to surface size.

[tungstendipper]

My understanding is that none of them are flat, it's when you clamp it all together when you weld it is what make it and keeps it flat. You can do that with u-bolts.

Are you saying that your table was not flat after you assembled it? If so, could be faulty parts. You should contact them.

I did contact them. They told me my top came off the end of the roll of steel, and their reverse rollers did not take out the bow. The u bolts you are referring to makes the top strait when clamped to the stiffeners provided. My top bowed their stiffeners! So I shimmed the low spots a clamped the high spots. This got it half way. So the then they told me to place the top with the stiffeners welded on, between to 4x4's and use a sledge hammer to beat it level.
That's NOT how I do things !! So they gave me a deal on a 1/4" top and to my amazement all the holes aligned up perfectly. I rented a MAgdrill and drill and tapped, and shimmed the top.

[tungstendipper]

If you want to fixture up something, having a table thats flat to a tolerance is important as everything you do during setup is based upon the table. But that's dependent upon what you're doing. Weld splatter is controlled with sprays or surface treatments.

Plate steel is not flat. Not by a long shot. Having it blanchard ground to within a reasonable tolerance is a great idea if your needs dictate. I had mine done to 0.01 because that's as critical as I wanted it. I have just always made my own tables because I want a larger surface than they sell for a reasonable price. And I want a much thicker slab for rigidity due to surface size.

I would love to see your shop and learn more from you.

[cj737]

I would love to see your shop and learn more from you.

Bring a pack of matches with you. Everything I can teach you, you can write on the head of a wooden match and still have room to sign it

[aland]

The u bolts you are referring to makes the top strait when clamped to the stiffeners provided. My top bowed their stiffeners!

td,

From what I've read that is a defect if so. Seems that once you weld the top to the stiffeners it should stay flat.

They didn't say that was a defect if the top bowed the stiffeners?

Just curious...you're one of the few I've even seen complaining about fit/finish/flatness...

Bring a pack of matches with you. Everything I can teach you, you can write on the head of a wooden match and still have room to sign it

I don't know about that, you've been pretty helpful to me, and I've seen quite a bit more info than would fit on that match head, just in the time I've seen you posting here.

Alan

[tungstendipper]

They didn't say that was a defect if the top bowed the stiffeners?

They did say it was a defect. That's why they gave me the 1/4" top at cost.
BTW... They are great people to deal with.

[aland]

They did say it was a defect. That's why they gave me the 1/4" top at cost.
BTW... They are great people to deal with.

All that said, I still think they provide a pretty good value for what they offer.

I see you have the ProTable also, don't those come with 3/16" normally? I didn't know they could make a 1/4" top, I don't think they offer that option on their website.

I did mentioned the FabBlocks have 3 sizes, as I recall, but I considered that a plus with the blocks. I guess if they would upgrade the ProTables that would be a plus also. the real value in the blocks and mix/match what you like, lots of options.

Even still, does the Adjustable Fab Square seem like a good value at $39.99 ? I was considering getting it with the ProTable when I order it...I would spend more time and money reproducing the same wheel...

https://weldtables.com/products/8x8x3-a ... u-weld-kit

Alan

[tungstendipper]

They did say it was a defect. That's why they gave me the 1/4" top at cost.
BTW... They are great people to deal with.

All that said, I still think they provide a pretty good value for what they offer.

I see you have the ProTable also, don't those come with 3/16" normally? I didn't know they could make a 1/4" top, I don't think they offer that option on their website.

I did mentioned the FabBlocks have 3 sizes, as I recall, but I considered that a plus with the blocks. I guess if they would upgrade the ProTables that would be a plus also. the real value in the blocks and mix/match what you like, lots of options.

Even still, does the Adjustable Fab Square seem like a good value at $39.99 ? I was considering getting it with the ProTable when I order it...I would spend more time and money reproducing the same wheel...

https://weldtables.com/products/8x8x3-a ... u-weld-kit

Alan

I didn't want to sound like Certiflat tables are bad. My table, now that I have used it, and flattened it, using all my different home-made clamps, is one of the top tools I've have ever bought. I now can clamp my work to my new table that I've never been able to do. Everyday, I'm amazed how precisely the table and clamps holds the work in every configuration. I would recommend a Certflat to anyone!

The 3/16 top is what it came with and I added a 1/4 top on top of the 3/16". I wanted the FabBlock 3'x4' but I had no way of flipping it over to clamp and weld the bottom. It was just to heavy weld without an overhead crane. The fab block is what I would recommend to you because of the wide sides and the ability to clamp work to them.

The adjustable square looks great, and a deal for 40 bucks. For tacking it's fine; I don't know if it could stand up to the forces of a welds pulling.

[aland]

I didn't want to sound like Certiflat tables are bad. My table, now that I have used it, and flattened it, using all my different home-made clamps, is one of the top tools I've have ever bought. I now can clamp my work to my new table that I've never been able to do. Everyday, I'm amazed how precisely the table and clamps holds the work in every configuration. I would recommend a Certflat to anyone!

I think I misunderstood where you were coming from, but I want one and couldn't agree more about being able to clamp things straight and flat and be able to build $#!T in general. That is what it's all about at the end of the day...

The 3/16 top is what it came with and I added a 1/4 top on top of the 3/16".

Oh, I didn't realize you have both. Did they make special tabs for the bottom structure to extend through both layers of the top?

I wanted the FabBlock 3'x4' but I had no way of flipping it over to clamp and weld the bottom. It was just to heavy weld without an overhead crane. The fab block is what I would recommend to you because of the wide sides and the ability to clamp work to them.

I would do it with an engine hoist. I have a 8,000 lb. rough terrain forklift, but it's not at my house...

I don't want something so big, a 2'x2' would be good for me and I could still add FabWings on it after the fact.

The adjustable square looks great, and a deal for 40 bucks. For tacking it's fine; I don't know if it could stand up to the forces of a welds pulling.

I thought it looks convenient for small stuff. I wish I had one now that I could use to use for practice welding. My little table will do and I could always weld something at an angle so I could simulate the same thing. When i order my table I'm gonna get one.

Alan

[tungstendipper]

Oh, I didn't realize you have both. Did they make special tabs for the bottom structure to extend through both layers of the top?

You need to read my past posts on this.