[TraditionalToolworks]

It's probably the best stick machine I've ever used, although I'm not sure how qualified I am to judge between it and the XMT 350 at school

There's an XMT 300 cc/cv on my local craigslist, pretty beat up, the guy was asking $600, brought it down to $500...but it's the same type deal...do I really need another welder just to have a better stick welder? I don't think so...but there's an Idealarc 250 for $75 I was looking at...again, I think it's the same thing...do I really want yet another welder? Especially a bit 400 lb. transformer machine?

I'd much rather of had that Invertig 275-S like you have.

I don't think you should feel cheated on the tig, to be honest, I suspect it will tig weld just fine it just won't provide you HF start.

Nothing wrong with that, you can still tig weld. The problem with tig is that it's a can of worms in the sense you need an argon tank, you need a flowmeter, you need tungstens and a way to sharpen them, you need filler for the type of welding you want to do...it just opens up a lot of expense. Now, once you get over that initial fall off the cliff, then all you need to do is learn how to move your torch hand while feeding filler and operating the pedal...

That's the thing I like about stick...it's a stinger and a ground and an electrode. That's all you need. My i-Tig 201 weighs 28 lbs., toss it over your shoulder with the strap and away you go...stick welding is so much easier...now learning to watch and read the puddle is another story...

I'm sure my machine will tig weld quite well enough for my purposes, especially given the foot pedal option. But had I expected it to be more than primarily keeping in practice at home or while tig welding my own things, I'd probably want the additional tig features of the Primeweld over anything else too.

If I was you I would keep my eyes open for a valve torch and a pedal, if nothing else you can get a pedal from SSC for about $160, I was checking recently when that 275-S was listed last week. Lift start is preferred for much of the auto work as well.

In your case you don't even need another machine, yours will do tig just fine.

[Louie1961]

Well, the very first pic in the OP was 6011 bead on the edge of a 1/2" mild steel plate.

Yeah, to be honest, I missed that. I failed to read the text between the pics. My bad.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yeah, to be honest, I missed that. I failed to read the text between the pics. My bad.

No worries, I lied, it was the second pic...

It did run the 3/32" 6011 ok as well. A friend said he has some 6010, so I will try to stop by my LWS or get a few rods from him and test them.

[v5cvbb]

Interestingly enough, I've found arc force actually isn't necessary to run 6011 or 6010 at all if the machine is capable enough. I suspect it might compensate if the machine would otherwise struggle. I've ran 6010 with arc force set low, or even all the way down on my machine without any trouble, although I'm not sure if I could've pushed it through 1/4 plate without sticking like I can when it's turned up.

I've got a Everlast 210STL and I can run 6011 with arc force at 0%, but it's not easy or pretty. Arc force turned up some makes it much nicer to run. I picked this machine partly because of hot start and arc force adjustments. And it was $400!

The better stick welders at school amazed me how well they ran 6010 and 7018 without fiddling with settings. XMT304 and I forget what the Lincoln was, but obviously no Everlast.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I've got a Everlast 210STL and I can run 6011 with arc force at 0%, but it's not easy or pretty. Arc force turned up some makes it much nicer to run. I picked this machine partly because of hot start and arc force adjustments. And it was $400!

I was going to buy that, actually did, and returned it for my i-Tig 201. Those are purported to be very decent stick welders for the price. It's kind of a shame now, since I won't buy anymore product from Everlast or AHP, that limits the inexpensive machines that will run 6010, but the ESAB 180i doesn't look like a bad machine for the price, but more than the 210.

Curious, your results seem similar to mine running 6011 on my machine, but did you set your machine for cellulose when running the 6011 ??? I don't have such a setting on either of my machines, but was surprised how well the Primeweld ran 6011 to be honest. Now I want to try 6010 and see if it will burn it for me.

[v5cvbb]

I've got a Everlast 210STL and I can run 6011 with arc force at 0%, but it's not easy or pretty. Arc force turned up some makes it much nicer to run. I picked this machine partly because of hot start and arc force adjustments. And it was $400!

I was going to buy that, actually did, and returned it for my i-Tig 201. Those are purported to be very decent stick welders for the price. It's kind of a shame now, since I won't buy anymore product from Everlast or AHP, that limits the inexpensive machines that will run 6010, but the ESAB 180i doesn't look like a bad machine for the price, but more than the 210.

Curious, your results seem similar to mine running 6011 on my machine, but did you set your machine for cellulose when running the 6011 ??? I don't have such a setting on either of my machines, but was surprised how well the Primeweld ran 6011 to be honest. Now I want to try 6010 and see if it will burn it for me.

I don't recall trying 6010 mode with 6011. 6011 ran fine on the Primeweld the one time I tried, even on 110V.

Getting 6010 to burn, and it having the voltage to run right, are 2 different things.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I don't recall trying 6010 mode with 6011. 6011 ran fine on the Primeweld the one time I tried, even on 110V.

Getting 6010 to burn, and it having the voltage to run right, are 2 different things.

Actually they are very similar rod.

The 6011 will run on AC, where the 6010 supposedly only runs on DC.

From what I've read the 6010 runs a bit smoother.

Just what I've read, no expert here, have never run 6010 in my life.

[Oscar]

The 6011 will run on AC, where the 6010 supposedly only runs on DC with very high arc voltage.

From what I've read the 6010 runs a bit smoother.

Just what I've read, no expert here, have never run 6010 in my life.

There, fixed it for ya.

[Oscar]

That's interesting as my Everlast i-Tig 201 claims it will run 6011, but I need to turn the arc force up to get it to run.

It all depends how much you need to turn it up. If you need to turn it up a lot, it says that you have to hold an abnormally short arc length due to lack of voltage, but doing so would otherwise snuff the arc if the arc force isn't there to compensate. If you only need to turn it up a little bit, that's normal, about 10-25% is what I would call normal to run 6011/6010 at a minimum.

[TraditionalToolworks]

There, fixed it for ya.

No, actually what you did was make it look like I said something I didn't. I'm fine if I'm wrong, but it's not anyone's task to fix what I say...

Just sayin'...

What it should say is that higher voltage from Oscar's opinion.

As per long or short arc, I really have no clue at the moment as I haven't run 6011 on my Everlast in about 2 years so really not sure other than it helped to have the arc force turned up some for 6011, and that is what Kevin stated also.

If you know what my welder does and/or needs, that's good, just say what the i-Tig 201 does and needs. Short of that it's all armchair welding theory.

I will add, most welders need to be tuned for how they operate, that goes for most all welders! No 2 welders seem to be the same, even of the same models I've heard.

[Oscar]

Not really opinion; it's a well known characteristic of 6010 that it needs high arc voltage to run properly; which is also why a lot of entry-level stick welders can't run it.

[DavidR8]

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

[TraditionalToolworks]

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

It's just harder to run and many welders have a difficult time running it, that is especially true of welders without a cellulose mode. I think it has to do with the higher arc voltage Oscar speaks of, but all welders are different. Older transformer machines were capable of running it fine without such a setting. Maybe they have a higher arc voltage, I don't know...

I just ordered a pound of it on ebay. Will be here by the weekend. I'll know one way or the other on the Primeweld.

Not really opinion; it's a well known characteristic of 6010 that it needs high arc voltage to run properly; which is also why a lot of entry-level stick welders can't run it.

I think people just want to see the Primeweld fail at it so they can say it failed at something. Nobody seems to want to believe the guy on WW ran it on his Primeweld.

I only bought a pound of it as I don't want to stock up, I have 6011 which is fine for my needs. I'll know soon enough.

[DavidR8]

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

It's just harder to run and many welders have a difficult time running it, that is especially true of welders without a cellulose mode. I think it has to do with the higher arc voltage Oscar speaks of, but all welders are different. Older transformer machines were capable of running it fine without such a setting. Maybe they have a higher arc voltage, I don't know...

I just ordered a pound of it on ebay. Will be here by the weekend. I'll know one way or the other on the Primeweld.

Thanks Alan.

[Oscar]

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

It's one of the "toughest" rods to run. Meaning after the initial arc strike, if there is not enough arc voltage, the arc can immediately snuff out, or in a best case scenario in an otherwise insufficient stick welder, it can run only with a super-tight arc, the kind that will stick the rod 99 times out of 100, thereby making it useless. Even if you could maintain a robotic-like super tight arc to actually have it run on sub-par arc voltage, the moment you try to whip-out to solidify the puddle, the slightest deviation of arc length and bam, arc snuffs out. Back to square one.

[TraditionalToolworks]

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

It's one of the "toughest" rods to run. Meaning after the initial arc strike, if there is not enough arc voltage, the arc can immediately snuff out, or in a best case scenario in an otherwise insufficient stick welder, it can run only with a super-tight arc, the kind that will stick the rod 99 times out of 100, thereby making it useless. Even if you could maintain a robotic-like super tight arc to actually have it run on sub-par arc voltage, the moment you try to whip-out to solidify the puddle, the slightest deviation of arc length and bam, arc snuffs out. Back to square one.

Let's keep in mind that MJD could not even stuff the rod into the puddle and put the arc out, which kind of mimics what Louie was saying, that his AHP burned 6011 really hot. My Primeweld didn't burn 6011 nearly as hot as he mentioned, but it had the fire within for sure. However, that is how 6011 burns, it's a hot angry arc that splatters all over...

I ordered a pound of 1/8" 6010 rod, not a real famous brand as I didn't feel the need for even 5 lbs.

[TraditionalToolworks]

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

It's one of the "toughest" rods to run. Meaning after the initial arc strike, if there is not enough arc voltage, the arc can immediately snuff out, or in a best case scenario in an otherwise insufficient stick welder, it can run only with a super-tight arc, the kind that will stick the rod 99 times out of 100, thereby making it useless. Even if you could maintain a robotic-like super tight arc to actually have it run on sub-par arc voltage, the moment you try to whip-out to solidify the puddle, the slightest deviation of arc length and bam, arc snuffs out. Back to square one.

Let's keep in mind that MJD could not even stuff the rod into the puddle and put the arc out, which kind of mimics what Louie was saying, that his AHP burned 6011 really hot. My Primeweld didn't burn 6011 nearly as hot as he mentioned, but it had the fire within for sure. However, that is how 6011 burns, it's a hot angry arc that splatters all over... I had little BBs stuck on my welding table I had to pop off with a cold chisel...

I ordered a pound of 1/8" 6010 rod, not a real famous brand as I didn't feel the need for even 5 lbs.

[Oscar]

Let's keep in mind that MJD could not even stuff the rod into the puddle and put the arc out, which kind of mimics what Louie was saying,

Could very well be that it has a lot of arc-force built-in, but in the end the real test is long-arc'ing it in a whip-n-pause type of movement, and see if it snuffs out. You can't properly run 6010 with the electrode buried in the puddle the whole time in every situation. You can easily pop a keyhole when you don't want to.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Could very well be that it has a lot of arc-force built-in, but in the end the real test is long-arc'ing it in a whip-n-pause type of movement, and see if it snuffs out. You can't properly run 6010 with the electrode buried in the puddle the whole time in every situation. You can easily pop a keyhole when you don't want to.

Absolutely agree, you have to whip and pause it. That is how 6010/6011 needs to be run.

It is commonly referred to as a "violent" arc. Blasts through paint, rust, mill scale, etc...not a bad rod to have on one's arsenal. That's my attraction to it.

[Louie1961]

Those are purported to be very decent stick welders for the price. It's kind of a shame now, since I won't buy anymore product from Everlast or AHP, that limits the inexpensive machines that will run 6010

Actually a few people report that the $260 Harbor Freight Titanium stick 225 welder will run 6010 with no problems. So if you are looking for an inexpensive lunch box stick welder, that is always an option.

However, that is how 6011 burns, it's a hot angry arc that splatters all over...

That has not generally been my experience. 6011 is really spattery when long arced, but at the right amperage on my Syncrowave, it is pretty well behaved. It can dig in if you want it too, but I can also just run a stringer without doing the whip and pause. Little circles help make a more uniform bead. I find it to be a great utility rod when the metal isn't properly cleaned, or just for tacking stuff up. It does really easy restarts so it is a great rod for tacking.++

6010 seems to be some kind of 'benchmark' test for a welding machine. Wondering if someone can educate me on why this is.

The reason lots of inverters won't run 6010 has to do with the supplied arc voltage. If it is too low, the rod won't stay lit. But I think 6010 is over rated for the hobbyist. If you are going to get a job pipe welding or doing other structural welding that relies on a combination of 6010 and 7018 rods, then I can see where it would be important to have a machine that runs that rod well. But for the hobby guy, this isn't an issue. BUT that being said, there are inverters out there that won't run 6011 worth a darn either. That's where I draw the line. I do want a stick welder that can run 7018 and 6011 well. One of the harbor freight machines that former internet star tuned nazi (Chucke2009) reviewed wouldn't run 6011 or 6010. I believe it was the protig 165, but not 100% sure about that. I have run both 6010 and 6011 on my transformer machines and I don't really see enough of a difference for me to personally care, so I generally don't obsess over 6010 performance. YMMV.

[Louie1961]

Jody has a great video about some quick 6011 fabrication. Check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEBO7v1smBc

[TraditionalToolworks]

Actually a few people report that the $260 Harbor Freight Titanium stick 225 welder will run 6010 with no problems. So if you are looking for an inexpensive lunch box stick welder, that is always an option.

Only problem I have with that machine is the duty cycle. It's like 20% at the top end... Longevity has a 250 amp stick welder for $500 with Arc Force, not sure if that would be an option, but I honestly don't do that much stick welding, most of what I tend to do is tig. Even in some cases that stick could work, I just enjoy tig. And that is what the Primeweld shines at.

https://www.longevity-inc.com/stickweld-250

This also says it will run 6010, but not Arc Force setting, AFAICT. Cheap enough, I think possibly a better buy than the Harbor Freight, but don't know anyone with this welder.

https://www.longevity-inc.com/stickweld-200

That has not generally been my experience. 6011 is really spattery when long arced, but at the right amperage on my Syncrowave, it is pretty well behaved.

I believe you, but that's an entirely different machine...that's a big beast of a tranformer that needs close to 100 amps when max'd out...my Primeweld will only weld MMA up to 180 amps, and that draws more than tig.

I wasn't long arcing it, if that was your implication.

Jody has a great video about some quick 6011 fabrication. Check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEBO7v1smBc

Worth noting that Jody is using 110-120 amps on an old Lincoln AC buzz box. I was using 92 amps on my Primeweld. I didn't play with the setting too much, but it was penetrating well. On that 1/2" edge it was burning in nicely, I could see the puddle very clear as I was whip 'n pausing...moving in both directions on the edge. Bead looks ok to me.

For a comparison, here's Bob Moffat running the Everlast 210ST which Pre-Dates Kevin's 210STL.

You can clearly see the arc on 6010...do you think Bob Moffat was long arcing it? You can see it popping and splatting...all of our mileage varies. As I said previously, all machines are different and comparing a transformer machine to an inverter is probably not fair...just sayin'...

VMT1I_P1QFw

[sbaker56]

I've found 6010 to run a little bit smoother with less spatter and leave a slightly nicer bead than 6011 ran on the same machine, but it's not a big difference at all. However while 6011 will at least burn on little more than an AC transformer 6010 doesn't even like some DC machines, I had an old transformer DC machine that wouldn't even keep them lit, so it's not purely limited to inverters either.

As a few people have mentioned I found one big difference between most machines that'll run 6010 and those that won't is the ability to manipulate the electrode much more by varying between a very short and long arc depending on the situation. Most machine's that'll run 6010 are much more forgiving with 6011 as well.

As an example I can consistently draw an arc length of 2-3 inches or so with a 6010 or 6011 rod if I try using my machine, and while I'm not sure exactly how far away I can get or if it would sustain itself indefinitely, but lower end machines I've welded with simply won't handle that well. While that's not really a practical application for me, I do like tying 7018 starts and stops in using a longer arc, I've also found that serves to reduce or eliminate restart porosity as well and I've found running on certain machines makes that a lot easier than others.

If I had to guess why certain machines like the old Idealarc 250s and the Smart Car sized Syncrowave machines will burn a 6010 well without any arc adjustment settings I'd suspect it's because such large machine's would by design have much more inductance and less voltage drop under load than smaller machines and certain inverters might. If you hooked an Oscilloscope up to a machine you might find your voltage might still be a lot closer to a sine wave especially while welding than you might expect and the less filtering the more that's true.

In regards to the XMT 300 and Idealarc 250, I believe the orginal XMT 300's only went to around 225 amps in single phase, so while the CV feature would make it worth it to me if it were a 304 or 350 as I could get a wirefeeder and run very high current spray arc, only having 225 amps wouldn't give anything more than either of us already have. However I would've bought that idealarc 250 for 75$ in a heartbeat, even though on DC it wouldn't do anything my Invertec 275s wouldn't do better they still have a reputation as fantastic stick welders and I usually see them around here for a whole lot more, so for $75 I'd get the thing just for running 7024 on AC or as a back up.

[TraditionalToolworks]

However I would've bought that idealarc 250 for 75$ in a heartbeat, even though on DC it wouldn't do anything my Invertec 275s wouldn't do better they still have a reputation as fantastic stick welders and I usually see them around here for a whole lot more, so for $75 I'd get the thing just for running 7024 on AC or as a back up.

The Idealarc is still listed and it's an AC/DC box.

Here's a linky pic:



I did send an email to the seller asking if it was a PF model, IOW, had the PF Capacitor in it. No response in about a week.

I previously had seen this one, I mentioned I believe. This was $250 and did have the PF Capacitor. This was such a nicer machine, maybe I should have gotten it. Honestly, it's not really the money, it was more after I thought about it, even the PFC model requires 50 amps, and I just don't have that in my current home. The new shop/home has a 320 amp service in it, but I'm not sure how much I will use a stick welder there. I have a few projects I might, but I also can use stick with either of my inverters. I agree, probably not like the stick I can run with an Idealarc 250, but the big question is do I need it?

Reality is I would probably rather have spent $250 on this one than $75 on the above, since I am not even sure it's a PFC model and it's certainly in more need of TLC...What's your thoughts on the $75 unit above? I know it's worth $75, I might be able to clean it up, paint it and sell it for more, but I don't think there's too much money in doing that for the time one would put into it. I kind of have other things that need to get done rather than that.

[sbaker56]

It does look pretty corroded hard to tell what it looks like inside and I can't even see the amp indicator . It might take cleanup time to be considered safely usable.

I have 4 gauge wire running to my plug so I could run a large enough breaker for one, but if I couldn't that would certainly be a consideration i'd need to have. I agree that the $250 one is arguably a better deal given the condition AND that it looks like it has pretty heavy gauge leads of decent length on top of it. But likewise for $250 I'd actually have to ask myself if I needed it so I see your point.

Honestly given the admittedly limited experience I have with running 5/32 and 3/16 7018 rods above 180 amps it's not always practical to use anything higher anyway, you can weld 1" plate with a 1/8 7018 and enough passes, but you can't weld 1/4" with a 3/16 rod cranked up very well.

I can lay in passes with a 7018 at 125-150 amps pretty fast if I try, at least I think I can hit above 50% arc time without too much trouble depending on the weld, so it's nice to have something larger than I need for the duty cycle aspect, but I think for most people having a higher output is a lot more important for mig and tig applications than for stick.