[TraditionalToolworks]

In regards to the XMT 300 and Idealarc 250, I believe the orginal XMT 300's only went to around 225 amps in single phase

I believe you're correct, could even be on the latest models of the 300 cc/cv. In 3 phase it will get up to 375 amps. It requires 42 amps of 3 phase and I'll have 55 amps available at my new shop. In single phase it will only get 225 amps (MORE than enough for any stick welding I will do) and requires about 50 amps.

Downside to the XMT is that it only appears to be DC, there is no AC on them AFAICT. Upside opposed to the Idealarc 250 is that it looks to have a solenoid in it and support for a pedal when using Tig.

I honestly don't know I need it, in fact I know I don't need it...

Kind of what I keep coming back to, that my 2 inverters that I currently own can do pretty much all the tig and/or stick I need.

For stick I really only need 6011 and 7018 capability, the rest is just icing on the cake...but all the others like 7014, 7024, 6013 are pretty much included if they can run 6011 and 7018. This is way more stick than most hobbyist need.

I'm pretty sure that for my driveway gate I will be building in the future, I will use tig, but I will evaluate and decide when I build it. Stick could work for that project.

[sbaker56]

You'll have 3 phase at your shop? or did I misread, what do you have for mig? As you've said all the XMT are DC only,as are the higher output Invertec units, although by my understanding to tig aluminum you need HF as well, so if you don't have a box, the AC side of an Idealarc wouldn't be all that useful anyway. My main interest if I had 3 phase for that 300 cc/cv would be for the CV side so I could hook a wirefeeder up and have all my high output welding supported by one machine.

[TraditionalToolworks]

You'll have 3 phase at your shop?

Yes, I just got a 320 amp service dropped to my property where I'm building a new shop/home at where I hope to retire.

I have a Phase Perfect PT-355, it runs off 100 amps of single phase and supplies 55 amps of continuous 3 phase.

what do you have for mig?

I don't, I get my snap crackle pop from stick welding.

As you've said all the XMT are DC only

That kind of sucks. Not a deal breaker, but that much better for your Invertec. My understanding is you can use lift-start tig for aluminum. Maybe I'm wrong.

I never really had too much interest for mig, but I see the attraction, I just never got the bug.

Not long ago I almost bought an SP-200, but waffled and the guy sold it.

I really have too many machine and tools...I just got an Evo cold cutting saw, looking forward to using it on welding projects.

[TraditionalToolworks]

...and the infamous 6010 test that other people have purported to work flawlessly?

Actually runs it pretty good, despite your skepticism...

The rear fillet weld is over the top of slag, so there's a couple inclusions, or I could have long arc'd it, but the front beads are pretty clean and the 6010 burns just fine. Either way I can't imaging the slag being good in the weld... I'll run some clean beads this weekend, I was in my sandals so didn't want to spend too much time on the welder. Snuck out between working...



This is just some no-name E6010 I got for the cheapest price on ebay.

[Oscar]

Sorry, but that is not 6010 rod. I'm not saying that's not what it's labeled, or what the ad said you bought, but the actual rod composition/type. Not 6010. That looks like a 7018/7014/6013 variant that is being sold-off as 6010. Show a pic before you removed the slag please.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Sorry, but that is not 6010 rod. I'm not saying that's not what it's labeled, or what the ad said you bought, but the actual rod composition/type. Not 6010. That looks like a 7018/7014/6013 variant that is being sold-off as 6010. Show a pic before you removed the slag please.

You're absolutely wrong, IMO. Much of the 6010 is brick red color. This goes back many years. It is what MJD tested on his Primeweld also. You so want the Primeweld to fail...it's turning out to be a rock 'n roller...

My 7018s are all white. My 6011s are 2 different colors, Forney is kind of grey/green and Lincoln is off white.

I'm gonna write off your comments. I can show you a pic of the slag this weekend. You really are something... The slag is nothing like 7018 which peels off, it's almost exactly like the 6011, dusty, gritty, grey in color. 7018 is darker, almost black on top. Look on the top plate, that's the color of the slag...FWIW, this is a 1/8" E6010 rod running at 92 amps.

I even showed the marking on the stick...but you deny it...

You're a real piece of work...

[Oscar]

I could very well be wrong, but I'm just going by the pic you posted. I'm questioning the rod and its manufacturer, not the machine at this point. I know some 6010 had red flux, and the reason I think they're using that to pass it off as 6010 is that the bead looks nothing like any 6010 bead I've ran. I've ran Lincoln 5P+, 6P+ Pipeliner, Bohler Fox 6010, Best Welds 6010, Anchor 6010, and Blue Demon 6010. To me, that bead is just too smooth to be 6010. I could care less of what machine we're talking about, I have no stake in the matter of whether the PW225 can run it or not. Just to prove what I'm saying, I'd really like to know which vendor you bought it from so I can buy a pound of it or whatever, just so I can do the comparison myself. If it "runs" like 6010, I'll be glad to come back to this thread and say so.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I could very well be wrong, but I'm just going by the pic you posted. I'm questioning the rod and its manufacturer, not the machine at this point. I know some 6010 had red flux, and the reason I think they're using that to pass it off as 6010 is that the bead looks nothing like any 6010 bead I've ran. I've ran Lincoln 5P+, 6P+ Pipeliner, Bohler Fox 6010, Best Welds 6010, Anchor 6010, and Blue Demon 6010. To me, that bead is just too smooth to be 6010. I could care less of what machine we're talking about, I have no stake in the matter of whether the PW225 can run it or not. Just to prove what I'm saying, I'd really like to know which vendor you bought it from so I can buy a pound of it or whatever, just so I can do the comparison myself. If it "runs" like 6010, I'll be glad to come back to this thread and say so.

I'm grasping at straws here trying to understand what the advantage would be for a vendor to try to counterfeit a rod and make it look like 6010? I'm having a hard time grasping for a reason a vendor would do that.

Look, could very well be a different rod I 'spose, but to determine this from your view of a pic over the Internet seems like a stretch also. I admit, I'm not the best stick welder, I was almost going to wait and post a pic when I had more time to sit down, I was wearing sandals and really not setup to stick weld. I had sleeves on and wearing a leather apron, so it wasn't like I was totally welding naked or anything, but I did get a pop on my foot, so tried to keep them under the welding table. Seems to me someone needs to spend more time under the hood than judging welds on the Internet from their monitor.

This is the vendor, please find out if he ripped me off for $11.55. I bought the small pack of 1/8" rod.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/E6010-3-32-1-8 ... 2219592269

This thread is really taking a bad turn...

[Oscar]

You're getting all worked up over nothing. It's just a little disagreement/doubt from my side on the product which is the rod, and that's what forums are partially for; so we can discuss things. Just chill, relax. There's no need to to call anyone a piece of anything IMO, and I really don't think this has taken any bad turn anywhere. Thanks for the link. I just ordered some to eliminate all doubt and to eliminate the "stretch". I'm all about looking for truths, so as you can see, it's not just about casting doubt and not following up on my part.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Thanks for the link. I just ordered some to eliminate all doubt and to eliminate the "stretch".

Well thank G*D for that!

The world will be a better place when we get Judge Judy's, err...I mean Judge Oscar's certification if it's really E6010 or not.

My recommendation, spend some time under your $500 designer hood rather than judging everyone's welds on the Internet. Do you actually use all of that equipment you bought?

You claim to have bought 200 lbs. of 6010 rod when it was improperly priced at Home Depot. Go use it on a project already, build something useful. How about some brackets that will hold some ducting from your attic fan to the roof/gable? Certainly that would be useful.

[noddybrian]

Come on guys - it used to be way more friendly here - I do however agree with Oscar on the appearance - I never had any cellulose rod run smooth & clean like that - be interested what his take on the rods is - I also agree with TTW - why on earth would a rod maker mis-label a rod on purpose ?

[TraditionalToolworks]

For everyone's edification.

I've checked with a friend that does a lot of stick welding. He told me that E7018/E7014/E6013 would all have a very tight ripple pattern and that my pic of the E6010 beads is clearly E6010. Another point I didn't mention here but mentioned to him was that when I pulled the rod away, several times it was on fire, and he said that is common for both E6010 and E6011 as the cellulose burns and catches on fire.

He also had to pick himself up off the floor when I mentioned Oscar saying it could be counterfeit rod, he concurred with me that why in the world would a vendor go to such lengths to counterfeit a E6010 rod when they can buy them cheap if needed, it actually makes no sense at all. (rolley eyes for Oscar )

Until the time when Oscar receives his E6010 rod from this vendor, we'll have to go by the assumption that this is indeed E6010 rod.

For me, the Primeweld 225 rocks it all, E6010, E6011 and E7018, all of which are stick rods Primeweld doesn't even claim to support but told me that a competent welder could get working. I am not even a competent welder, so it passes my smell test...(which BTW, cellulose rod does stink, IMO).

[TraditionalToolworks]

Come on guys - it used to be way more friendly here

I completely agree, it is why I have stayed here, but recently I have to question that. I'm all for friendly discussions, but there seems to be someone here who thinks they're the authority on welding of all types.

I think it's a good time to step back and look at things from a higher level, start thinking before we spout something out, and try to speak intelligently. Obviously Oscar doesn't like the way I word things, and neither do I him, and that's ok. No problem with others having a different view than I do, but I call BS when I see it.

noddybrian - check your timezone and make sure it's correct, your posts show up between others already posted.

[Spartan]

I'm grasping at straws here trying to understand what the advantage would be for a vendor to try to counterfeit a rod and make it look like 6010? I'm having a hard time grasping for a reason a vendor would do that.

I can think of a reason why a vendor might counterfeit 6010: If word spreads (and quickly these days with social media) that "their 6010" rods actually work well on all these smaller inverters that are all limited to 6011, people would start buying up those fake rods like hotcakes. By the time people figured out the scam, all of the profit would have already been moved offshore and the ebay store shutdown. More realistic of a scenario than you may think. A lot of scammers out there looking for a quick way to turn some profit.

NOT saying that is the case here at all. Just giving a reason why someone may choose to fake 6010 rods. As others have mentioned, the bead in TTW's pic does look like a cellulose rod to my eye, but I'm no stick expert.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I can think of a reason why a vendor might counterfeit 6010:

Ok, I'm willing to accept that, just don't think there's a lot of money in selling stick rod to be honest. I don't think there are too many people welding with stick these days and the ones that are, are certainly in the minority. The majority of inverters sold today are sold to people that plan to either learn or use them for tig. I have nothing to quantify that with ,just what I see of people and what this site shows of people that join. I have no factual numbers.

NOT saying that is the case here at all. Just giving a reason why someone may choose to fake 6010 rods. As others have mentioned, the bead in TTW's pic does look like a cellulose rod to my eye, but I'm no stick expert.

I can say with confidence it smells horrible like 6011, and not my favorite taste either. Welding with a fan on high and front garage door open, seems I still get to taste some...

What bothers me most about this thread is I just came here to report how my Primeweld 225 works with stick. It was something that concerned me from the start, and something I've been meaning to do, just hadn't had time and when I got the welder my garage door had springs on one side that had pulled the chain from the wall, and I didn't want to weld stick in a closed garage. Thanks to my son for helping me fix that!

Most of the thread has been with both Oscar and Louie doubting if the machine will run 6010/6011, and in Louie's case I think it was just a misunderstanding of what I had originally welded, he was only really interested in the 6011 from his comments.

So I'm not sure why Oscar is so insistent on placing FUD on whether the Primeweld can weld stick properly or not. I won't be using it for stick too often, but I will use it some. For the type of work I would use it for, 6010/6011 would come in handy. That would be a dirty outdoor environment where the metal could be rusty.

Maybe there are some folks that bought a Primeweld that will appreciate me taking the time to test some different stick rod, not everyone buys them with that intent and the manual only claims they will work with 6013. Not trying to claim my welder does anything it doesn't. But I will say I'm pretty damn pleased with it for the price. Would be hard to convince me otherwise. And while I have seen some pretty favorable reviews on the Internet, I base my satisfaction on the honest way, using it myself. I'm welding with my inexpensive Wuhan inverter!

[cj737]

For the record, there are ample inverter-based welding machines that will weld 6010 perfectly well. Not sure where that myth came from?

In fact, nearly all new Miller PipePros are engine-driven inverters and they ALL weld 6010. My 15 year old Dynasty welds 6010 and it too is Inverter-based.

Too many internet myths for me...

[Spartan]

For the record, there are ample inverter-based welding machines that will weld 6010 perfectly well. Not sure where that myth came from?

In fact, nearly all new Miller PipePros are engine-driven inverters and they ALL weld 6010. My 15 year old Dynasty welds 6010 and it too is Inverter-based.

Too many internet myths for me...

Yes, but do note that I specified the "smaller" inverters. Sticking with Miller as an example, both the Multimatic 220, and the Maxstar 150 will not run 6010 according to Miller. And I'm sure there are many others in their product lines. My understanding is that the smaller machines just don't have the OCV capability to handle it.

[cj737]

Yes, but do note that I specified the "smaller" inverters. Sticking with Miller as an example, both the Multimatic 220, and the Maxstar 150 will not run 6010 according to Miller. And I'm sure there are many others in their product lines. My understanding is that the smaller machines just don't have the OCV capability to handle it.

I would say that is a prime explanation as to the capability of the machine, not the type of a machine. My point too. It’s not the inverter, it’s the capability of the machine.

[Spartan]

Yes, but do note that I specified the "smaller" inverters. Sticking with Miller as an example, both the Multimatic 220, and the Maxstar 150 will not run 6010 according to Miller. And I'm sure there are many others in their product lines. My understanding is that the smaller machines just don't have the OCV capability to handle it.

I would say that is a prime explanation as to the capability of the machine, not the type of a machine. My point too. It’s not the inverter, it’s the capability of the machine.

Agreed. And my only point was that there are A LOT of people with machines these days that are not capable of running 6010. So if a scammer suddenly came out with a magic stick of 6010 (actually a falsely labeled 6011 or other) that could run well on those machines, it wold sell quickly, and at a premium...until people figured it out. Doesn't take long to make some serious coin when running a scam like that. Advertise it heavily on social media, take a few thousand orders in a month, and then shut it down before people are able to hold you accountable. This would be done by an overseas firm, of course.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Agreed. And my only point was that there are A LOT of people with machines these days that are not capable of running 6010. So if a scammer suddenly came out with a magic stick of 6010 (actually a falsely labeled 6011 or other) that could run well on those machines, it wold sell quickly, and at a premium...

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. While there are a few like me who would like to run cellulose because of it's ability to blast through rust, mill scale, or even paint, people like me are in the very small minority.

6010 is primarily used for pipeline work, and honestly there are not a lot of people that really need to or even do run it.

6011 can fill the same niche and many inverters can run it.

You may have a point, but I just don't see the stick electrode market being huge. The people that run it typically use Lincoln rod, even I tend to buy it when I can. I couldn't find any Lincoln 5P+ 6010 in less than 10 lbs. when looking, so that's why I bought the off brand. Still, I don't believe the rod is a scam or is even counterfeit. What would be the case for someone to buy from the vendor I bought from when they don't even tout it running on small inverters? My $0.02...

[Spartan]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. While there are a few like me who would like to run cellulose because of it's ability to blast through rust, mill scale, or even paint, people like me are in the very small minority.

I don't think you're in quite the minority that you think you are. If two welding rods are mentioned in a youtube video, which two are they? 7018 and 6010.

That's what the big boys use. That's what real welders use.

We're in the middle of a hobbyist welder BOOM, and they want 6010. Even if they don't really need it, they want it. And they'll pay for it. Just like they don't really need 7018, but they want it and have to have it because that's what professionals use for their code work.

It's all marketing. And I really don't believe you are in a minority. You wanting to run 6010 on your Primeweld is the norm, not the exception, IMO.

[v5cvbb]

Alan, those 6010 look like my Inweld. Are the ends painted? My 3/32” are green.

Top of pic are whatever the LWS had loose.

[v5cvbb]

Closer picture.

[Oscar]

The funny thing is I completely agree, that what I said sounds utterly ridiculous, about the rod being "counterfeit". I couldn't believe I was even thinking that, but at the same time, I just couldn't get over the pretty bead appearance (IMO) and how it relates to my own [different] experiences with 6010 beads. That's why I said, in effect, "no way, it can't be". Not as a seal of disapproval of any kind, just my take on the thing. Trust me, I went back to the picture of the bead many, many times to analyze it before I came to my conclusion. It's obviously not super important in the grand scheme of things, but hey this is a welding forum after all, and I find it very interesting. That's why I bought some of it with my own money to see what's what. Even though I surely don't need to stock anymore rod, it's always interesting to see how different rods actually run. Oh, and I even bought that 6010 in all three sizes that they offered (3/32", 1/8", and 5/32") just in case there is any difference between the three sizes as well (how they run). It's all in the name of science.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I don't think you're in quite the minority that you think you are. If two welding rods are mentioned in a youtube video, which two are they? 7018 and 6010.
...
It's all marketing. And I really don't believe you are in a minority. You wanting to run 6010 on your Primeweld is the norm, not the exception, IMO.

You might be right. I see many of these "welder boomers" as being engineers and just splitting @$$ hairs over being able to run it or not. Most everyone I see wants the cheapest welder that says it will do it all. 6010 falls into that category, IMO, and most of the people will most likely not use them. However, I do use stick and I'm sure others do also, so I shouldn't generalize as I'm one of those @$$ hair splitters as well...

Alan, those 6010 look like my Inweld. Are the ends painted? My 3/32” are green.

No, I just went out and checked, they're plain steel on both ends. The steel is shinier than my 7018 Excalibur, not sure if that's because they have flux powder on the ends or not, but my 7018 look a bit powdery.

The funny thing is I completely agree, that what I said sounds utterly ridiculous, about the rod being "counterfeit".

But you had Spartan going.

Oh, and I even bought that 6010 in all three sizes that they offered (3/32", 1/8", and 5/32") just in case there is any difference between the three sizes as well (how they run). It's all in the name of science.

I only bought the 1/8" 15oz pack, I felt like they screwed me out of an ounce on my 1 lb.

But I want to make one thing clear...I am not sure how the Primeweld is able to stack up like it does. It's one of the least expensive AC/DC welders, it comes with a genuine CK Worldwide 17 Flexhead torch, has a 3 year warranty with shipping paid, is able to weld most all stick rods I've thrown at it, does an amazing job at tig, etc...there is only one thing I can think of that it is lacking...lift start tig, it only can do HF. But for those times when working on a car, one can pull the computer cables while welding if there is any concern.

So yeah, I would be a doubter if I didn't own the box and have been welding with it. Everlast will tell you it's an AHP clone and that the AHP was out first, but since I've owned mine I've seen a number of DOA AHP units. I don't get it, I'm confused over it myself.