FWIW, lots of people would disagree with you on the Miller forum.Spartan wrote:and the Maxstar 150 will not run 6010 according to Miller.
They wouldn't be disagreeing with me at all. I have no dog in that fight. They'd be disagreeing with MillerTraditionalToolworks wrote:FWIW, lots of people would disagree with you on the Miller forum.Spartan wrote:and the Maxstar 150 will not run 6010 according to Miller.
Seems a lot of them are running 6010 on their Maxstar 150 boxes. Some say you need to keep the arc short, but in general there are many that are burning 6010 with those little boxes.
That's kind of like Primeweld saying they only support 6013 I guess...although the vendor here in the U.S. told me the machine is capable of running all rod depending on how competent the welder is. I'll tell 'ya, that didn't give me the warm fuzzies about running it to be honest...but in the end I am more than a happy. Miller knows their machines well though, maybe that's why I can get 6010 to run on my machine, not sure, but maybe it not enough to really run it but will run it half @$$'d.Spartan wrote:They wouldn't be disagreeing with me at all. I have no dog in that fight. They'd be disagreeing with Miller
https://www.millerwelds.com/frequently-asked-questions
I've been out of school for far too long, but I would think their "inductance" line is marketing wank that really means their transformers (inverters still use transformers for people unaware) are not designed to output voltages at the higher level needed to run 6010.TraditionalToolworks wrote: Do you know what type of inductance level it takes for a machine to run cellulose properly? And is it possible to calculate what a machine's inductance level is? Would one need a special meter?
I for one do appreciate your input.v5cvbb wrote:Just thought I would add another opinion to Alan's thread since I have the same machine.
That's good to know. How do the beads look? Which brand rod did you use?v5cvbb wrote:I ran a few each of 3/32" & 1/8" 6010 tonight with the Primeweld Tig225.
They did run ok. Easy to strike an arc. Enough arc force to dig in fine, but not enough to punch through plate like some welders.
Plenty of voltage to step out of the puddle for whip and pause. Voltage is high enough to get at least 3/8" arc length. You can strike ahead and back into a restart if you hold a close arc. The long arc capability is nothing like my Miller Thunderbolt transformer. Didn't expect it would.
Very respectable performance for a machine that shouldn't run 6010 at all. I'll definitely use the Primeweld rather than getting another welder out when in the barn.
Just thought I would add another opinion to Alan's thread since I have the same machine.
He showed the rod above, Inweld.Oscar wrote:Which brand rod did you use?
I've never plugged either of my machines into 120v yet, mainly because I had made a pigtail to go from L6-30->6-50 and have always just plugged them into the 30 amp 240v circuit. I should try that sometime, but my main problem is my 120v circuit is only 20 amps, and not sure how much that would give me on MMA. In the manual it says the Primeweld will supply 120 amps on MMA running on a 120v circuit. MMA is the biggest draw on inverters, iMax is 38.1 amps for 220v and 46.3 amps on 110v. I don't know if 120v/240v will bring that down or not, but that's what they show on the machine.v5cvbb wrote:Alan, 91-92A was dead on for me too. 67A worked well with 3/32". It was nice running a few beads. I hadn't stick welded with Primeweld since day one, and never on 240V. I end up using the 210STL on 120V for out of the shop repairs.
IMO it's a selling point for DV machines (and a lot of 120V machines especially), but what many don't explicitly state is that you need LOTS of amps on that 120V circuit to reach that kind of welding amperage. They want you to assume that it will pull off such craziness on a 20A circuit. That's where astute observations of the electrical specification sticker comes into play and understanding how all those things really play out. On my specific testing, I ran my Inverarc 200TLP on a voltage transformer on a regular 120V shared circuit (garage lights are on the same circuit). I was able to get about 90-95A with a "loose" 1½-rod-diameter arc length while consuming all 20A from that circuit. With a tighter arc length <1-rod-diameter, current draw on the input side dropped to 15-16A. Extrapolating this, I'd say the reasonable limit for a 120V/20A circuit is ≈110-115A welding current with a tight arc length, maybe up to 120A for a very efficient inverter welder.TraditionalToolworks wrote: In the manual it says the Primeweld will supply 120 amps on MMA running on a 120v circuit. .....46.3 amps on 110v. I don't know if 120v/240v will bring that down or not, but that's what they show on the machine.
I agree, but don't think I could get 120A on my Primeweld, considering they state you need 46.3 amps to feed that. Maybe it could, but I seriously doubt it.Oscar wrote:Extrapolating this, I'd say the reasonable limit for a 120V/20A circuit is ≈110-115A welding current with a tight arc length, maybe up to 120A for a very efficient inverter welder.
Absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.v5cvbb wrote:110V capable machines open up options and solve problems when stuff needs fixed away from the shop.
Curious to see what was available for 110v 50A breakers I discovered that Home Depot carries a 110v 50A for the astonishingly low price of $13. Not that I'm considering running it on 110v in the shop as I still need to run a 240V 30A (or 40A) circuit for my welder.TraditionalToolworks wrote: Absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
However, some machines seem pretty marginal on 120v. As an example, the Primeweld says 38.1 amps for 220v and 46.3 for 110v, and this will provide 180a of stick welding on 220v and 120a of stick on 110v. (using their volt numbers, 110/220).
This is a pretty big spread, not to mention that's a lot of amps for a 120v circuit in most any home. As I have mentioned most homes have 20 amp breakers for 110v circuits, but not all...there are some 30 amp circuits and even higher, but it would be rare to find a 40 amp 110v circuit, IMO, and even rarer to find a 50 amp 110v circuit which the Primeweld says it would need.
In contrast, my green weenie requires 28.6a at 120v and 27.5a at 240v (using Everlast's number for volts, 120v/240v). This will provide 100a of stick on 120v and 125a of stick on 240v. Notice how much closer the spread is on these numbers amp wise. Uses almost half of what the Primeweld says it uses on 120v to get close to the same output.
I fully concur with what you say, 120v ability is useful, but we see a lot of people trying to run machines on 120v and limping along at best, popping the breaker, etc...I do have a use at my yard where I do have 120v, but I currently have a 20 amp 240v breaker which my air compressor is plugged into and I will bump that up to a 30 amp 240v or 40 amp 240v as the shed is on a 50 amp breaker from the front yard. I hope to be out of there soon, and power is moot at my lake property, I have 320 amps to do whatever I want with. Still, doesn't mean I won't want 120v at some point if I go somewhere there is ONLY 120v. My Everlast is almost half the weight of the Primeweld at 48 lbs., and weighs in at 28 lbs.. Also has a strap to toss it over your shoulder, so it could come in handy some day for some remote type job where only 120v is available.
I'm what process? I don't think I'll believe that until I see it. That would be 12.9V arc voltage at 100% efficiency.Poland308 wrote:Lincoln 210 mp will output 140 amps on 120v 15amps in. https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/E ... nElectric)
Didn't mean to imply you can't get the breakers, just that most homes have 20 amp circuits in them. Some have higher. I'm also a bit surprised that you can get 50 amp breakers so cheap, but it depends on which breakers your box takes. My house only has 125 amps for the entire home and shop.DavidR8 wrote:Curious to see what was available for 110v 50A breakers I discovered that Home Depot carries a 110v 50A for the astonishingly low price of $13. Not that I'm considering running it on 110v in the shop as I still need to run a 240V 30A (or 40A) circuit for my welder.
Yes and no. The 15a is Ieff, which Kevin is asking about, but if you look at the actual manual, you need 20 amps for 120v, and you only get 80 amp of stick at 40% duty cycle, or 60 amps at 100% duty cycle, see for yourself on page 7:Poland308 wrote:Lincoln 210 mp will output 140 amps on 120v 15amps in. https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/E ... nElectric)
The ones I listed were Imax, which as I understand is the max amperage required.v5cvbb wrote:Alan, are those Primeweld numbers the max or effective values?
I agree. 3/32" stick is acceptable, on 120v, IMO.v5cvbb wrote:I don't remember. Regardless, it's not one to kick breakers often. I maxed it out tig welding on 110V no problem, and it stick welds 3/32” so I call that good enough!
What were you brazing with? Could be not getting the brass hot enough before you try to braze, in my experience. Be careful as brass has zinc in it.v5cvbb wrote:The machine has its limits though. It couldn't make me good enough to braze thin wall brass tubing last night. Ok, maybe that's not the fault of the machine.
Good catch. Imax is 21.5A, which is the actual maximum current consumption at the specified welding output using that specific line voltage.TraditionalToolworks wrote:Yes and no. The 15a is Ieff, which Kevin is asking about, but if you look at the actual manual, you need 20 amps for 120v, and you only get 80 amp of stick at 40% duty cycle, or 60 amps at 100% duty cycle, see for yourself on page 7:
That's something I heard you say before but forgot. Interesting to note that the 210MP is only 40% duty cycle on 120v for 80 amps of MMA, and that must be why they can get that 15a Ieff rating, the fact that it only has a 40% duty cycle.Oscar wrote:For others that are reading this, Ieff has nothing to do with what the machine consumes. Ieff is a de-rating amperage calculation that applies to the [allowable sizing of] conductors supplying the machine with power. This calculation is based on duty-cycle at the maximum rated output using that line-voltage. The lower the duty cycle, the more you are allowed to de-rate the input conductors, because the duty cycle of the machine, will simulataneously allow for the input conductors to "cool off". In this case, for that 210MP, you are allowed size the conductors as if you only needed to carry 15A. Note that this is an allowance (meaning it is permissible, not necessarily a recommendation. This is directly from the US NEC.
I wouldn't say that is the case. I'm pretty sure it will weld up to whatever amperage the 120V circuit will allow before popping the breaker. I think that is just the rating Lincoln chose to specify, for whatever reason.TraditionalToolworks wrote:[that would limit the 210MP to 1/16" 7018 which is not a lot of welding power, unless you could squeak 3/32" 7018 out of 80 amps on 120v.
